MiM,

I think MyRev has given you some good advice. It also seems you are thinking along the same lines. SHe did not "forget" anymore than she "forgot" her appointments to interview this young man.

She knows darned well, this would not set well with you, but she had to tell you because when it comes time for Co. party or some such thing, she would really be in trouble.

I do think boundaries are crucial now, and I agree with MyRev and I guess you as well, this is HER problem to fix. How does she propose to protect your marriage? What is her plan to protect your marriage, address your concerns, and her weaknesses?

I would be interested in hearing what HER plans are right now.

God Bless,

JL

That's what I was trying to say, JL...but you said it better...prettier, too.

Krusht:

Per my DS8, Ranch Style Beans = Fart Pills.

You just have to speak 8 year old boy to ken it.

MIM, just a few thoughts. My H's A was with his office manager. Because of the A she obviously had to go, and his partner also left, leaving H in a great big mess in his small business. He was going through withdrawal, thought OW was indispensible, and it was extremely urgent that he fill her job. The best candidate, after he hired a real loser for a few weeks, was a very attractive younger woman. She was about OW's age. Of course it triggered the crap out of me. I told H what was happening with me and we ultimately both agreed that it would help him get over OW to fill that job. This is the other thing I realized. It really didn't matter what age this woman was, because being on MB had showed me that these OPs come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Prince Charles' Cammilla for example? She's no young beauty queen!

The outcome is this person is still working for H. It was the best thing because she was so much better than OW at her job it helped dismantle more of H's fantasy world. I think in your case you need to know that your W gets it. That she really understands why she had an A, how she allowed it to happen, how she feels about it, that she understands her bounderies now. I'm not sure you feel comfortable with your W's attitude about any of that.

Hope some of that made sense!

I will be sending this to her shortly. Thoughts?


FWW:

I'm choosing to write this down and sending this via e-mail prior to discussing with you directly because I would prefer to not be involved in another shouting match with you where the points I am trying to get across to you get lost in the interruptions, the attacks, the arguments, and the noise that tends to characterize our "discussions".

One of the main reasons that I was OK with you starting your current job was that there were NOT going to be any men, young or otherwise, reporting into you. That type of situation simply would not be acceptable to me, given the lack of judgment and poor boundaries exercised in such a situation in your last job, where not only our marriage, but our health and our very way of life as well as that of our children were seriously threatened by some very poor choices on your part.

Now, that situation I was comfortable with has changed for the worse, and the very fact that I had to find out this morning that the decision to make that change was made by yourself over three weeks ago without my involvement or even notification suggests to me that my concerns about judgment and boundaries being properly exercised are still very much valid.

I want to make it absolutely clear so there are no misconceptions on anyone's part: I am currently not comfortable with a situation where any men, young or otherwise, are reporting into you. Such an arrangement reminds me too much of an extremely hurtful part of our history of which I would prefer to not be reminded. This is likely not going to change any time soon. Perhaps it will never change. I am also not prepared to be subjected to any attempt to make me feel guilty about the way I feel now about this - I will simply not respond to such attempts on anyone's part.

Further to the above, the very process by which this current situation came about has now made it even more difficult for me to trust your judgment, as I don't see any evidence that any consideration was given to the effect that this decision of yours would have on me or on our relationship as a consequence. I'm pretty sure that you knew how I'd feel about this situation, but yet I had to find out about it three weeks' after the decision was made, and only when I inquired into the circumstances.

So, now you know now how I feel about the current situation. I am not comfortable with it, I will likely never be comfortable with it, and I think it has already done some serious damage to our recovery. The ball is in your court now to do something about it. While I have accepted your apology for what happened, this is not going to make me feel better about the situation going forward. I want to know what are your plans to fix this, to address my concerns and to protect our marriage.


Love,
MiM

MIM,

I read your letter, then stepped away and came back and re-read it because I know how important it is for you to get this message as "perfect" as possible, and I don't think I would change a thing.

You stated that you were upset, why you were upset, and asked her what SHE was going to do about it. You were stern, but not abusive, and your intended message came through LOUD AND CLEAR.

I also like your idea of sending the email ahead of time to better frame the discussion without it getting side-tracked in the fallout that will likely be coming.

Good luck to you tonight.

Yep.

There is the boundry that she crossed. She now CANNOT deny that it's there.

Any further "IDKs" on her part are a slap.

MIM,

Good letter.

""I want to know what are your plans to fix this, to address my concerns and to protect our marriage.""

And she says;

"So sorry Mr. MIM, but there is nothing to be done, the wheels are in motion. GET OVER IT!"

If the above is the reply, you got a hammer? Is this big enough for an ultimatum?

You may want to talk to her like she is in a semi-fog already. The anticipation of the new guy and how it is going to be, etc.

I am coming to the realization that we BSs CANNOT EVER give the (F)WWs the benefit of the doubt. Specially in this kind of similar scenario. And I believe we are totally justified.

IMHO

EDITED: Dealan-de - I thought the fart pills cured the problem not produced it.

kirk

I'm putting a plan in place for that scenario.



The fact that she has NOT mentioned anything about this new person has spoken volumes to me already. I believe that she knows that the easiest way to avoid questions is to not voluntarily provide information that might lead to such questions being asked.



I came to that realization a long time ago. Sad, really, but that's life in the post-A world...

I could be off, but shouldn't it be "reporting to you" and not "reporting into you"?

It also translates to: "I knew you would be mad so I thought it best I just not tell you and do what I wanted to do anyway. Once it's done there isn't much that can be done about it."

IOW, total disrespect for MIM and his boundaries. Trust me, she remembered.

LC

MiM,

I'm a little late to the party but its a go from my perspective.

God Bless,

JL

We had our talk tonight - she basically read my e-mail and asked me "so what do you want me to do?".

The conversation got a bit heated after that, mostly because I anticipated exactly how she would try to approach it, and each time she tried something that I expected she would try to shift the emotional burden onto me, I got even more annoyed.

After we got past that opening salvo, she then did the "martyr" thing and said something along of the lines of "well, I guess I have to give up my job now, is that what you want?", to which I responded along the following lines:

"My suggestion is that you talk to someone about our situation, to find out why it never occurred to you during those interviews and the decision between yourself and your boss to hire this person that perhaps this was something that you should discuss with your husband, given our history."

"My suggestion is that you talk to someone about our situation, to help you understand why it never occurred to you that your decision to hire this person would upset your husband so much."

"My suggestion is that you talk to someone about our situation, to find out why it seems that you are so emotionally disconnected from the consequences of your previous choices that ended up hurting me and our marriage so badly that your choices and judgment don't seem to take that into consideration."

"My suggestion is that you talk to someone about our situation, because it seems apparent that in our previous talks I've failed to get this idea across to you - You cannot protect our marriage the way it should be protected if your approach is to only take notice after damage is caused by your actions, rather than being aware enough to avoid making the choices that cause the damage in the first place."

Because that dear friends was her explanation for her actions - it never occurred to her that I would be affected so badly by them. She says that there was no deviousness involved, and I believe this. It's not about deliberately hiding something from me because she thought it would upset me. It's more about not telling me or discussing something with me because it never occurred to her that doing so would actually be a requirement to protect our M and avoid damaging our recovery. This frankly has me flabbergasted and very concerned.

Hi MIM

Sorry to see this turn of events.

If your W is anything like Squid she may think " I'm not having an affair now so there need be NO consequent discomforts in my life as a result of that any more".

I.e. no checking up, no RH, no restriction of IB etc etc.

Things can just be like they were before now. Which is ironic considering that "things" were apparently so bad then that she was forced into having an affair to cope with them. :RollieEyes:

Yes, your W needs to leave her job if she wants to stop being a source of hurt to you.

I would suggest you have her read this thread.

She obviously does not understand the devestation her adultery has caused you.

I think it's that and a bit more. It's almost like we're going back to that disconnected life again, i.e. the M is only of interest when we're home together - as soon as she's at the office or elsewhere, it's out of sight, out of mind. In her last job, she became a completely different person at the office, and it looks like this might be happening again, even though I thought we took some steps to address that. It looks like we haven't taken enough steps after all.



That's one possibility, but that's a conclusion that she will need to consider and come to on her own. You see, I know "Tangled" very well, and I have a good idea how her internal "filters" work. If I even suggest that she leave the job, she's either not going to do it and be very resentful that I asked her to do something like that, or she will follow through and later claim that I pushed her into doing it, that it seems she has to do whatever I say in order to keep me happy, even though she ends up unhappy. In either scenario, there will be no real ownership on her part of the reason why she had to make that decision to stay or go in the first place. Of course, neither scenario will accomplish anything positive for our M.

I'm guessing that this has already happened hence the post on the recovering thread.

Did your H discuss the hiring of this person with you BEFORE actually hiring her, or did he wait until afterward?

Here's how I found out about this new "hire":

WW - "Someone new will be starting work at the office from today"
ME - "Oh? Who?"
WW - "(mentions name, obviously a man)"
ME - "Yes? Who is he going to be reporting to?"
WW - "Me".
ME - "And how old is this person?"
WW - "Twenty-something."

I think from the time I asked her who he was going to reporting to, she caught on that it was definitely something I was going to be uncomfortable about. And I suspect that this new guy is actually around the OM's age when was first started to work for WW in her last job - I sensed a bit of dodginess in WW's answer when I asked her about his age.

I found out later that she and her boss had made the decision to hire him OVER THREE WEEKS AGO. It never occurred to her to mention anything at all about it to me.

I saw her post.

To her defense, she does call me when she's leaving the office for any reason and keeps in touch via other means (such as MSN) about any office issues concerning her. We used to communicate a lot, but now that's died down quite a bit, quite likely because she doesn't believe it's necessary anymore. She even mentioned previously that they were "looking for staff". Which makes this whole thing so strange - why did it not occur to her to mention anything to me about hiring a new younger guy who would be reporting directly to her?

I believe there are those here who believe that the moral compass of waywards is off kilter.

I tend to agree.

Her actions show that she can easily fall back to poor decision making.

She has to want that to change and make the DAILY effort. No matter how tiring it may be.

Why is she of this opinion? If communication is essential for you then shouldn't she either know that or have you not told her that it still is.

Maybe this is where the lack of communication about the hiring starts?