Unfortunately the not talking thing has always been part of his personality.

Before we married, I used to think he was shy. I thought it was sweet.

Eventually, it seemed he just plain doesn't want or need to talk or be close to anyone.

Now, I'm not so sure anymore... once he actually said he didn't like it when I was mad at him and not talking to him. I had figured he prolly was thankful I'd stopped talking.

LOL.
I hear that
When he makes these sort of comments, are you able to use them to speak to him. Even if its just one concise sentance?
Flick like concise, so the more information I can pack into a sentance the better for me. Biggest problem I have is I know more and bigger words, so have to be careful. No point using a fabulous word, dripping with nuance and meaning if he just goes huh?

So far it seems speech is not your H's thing.
The written word is not his thing.
Aprieciation is high on his list of EN or love languages.
I forget what other forms of communication you have tried.

how to encorporate this?

We actually had a nice discussion when he said that. I let him know that I appreciated him telling me that, it was good to know he cared and was affected by my not talking. He was like, "Of course it affects me!" Who knew?

But yes, I hear ya about the short concise sentences. I've been "trained" to try to answer in such short sentences, that once someone let me know they were offended, as if I'd thought they wouldn't understand or weren't worth a full explanation. lol it's more like, I doubt my ability to hold their attention for more than 5 words.

I guess that's pretty hilarious considering how verbose I can be here, huh?

I think I'm gonna sit right down here and have a pity party. I hate this country where I'm apparently too stupid to know how to buy a cup of coffee (apparently Tim Horton's only accepts Mastercard, not Visa). That started my day. And now my day is complete, my head hurts from where 6b dropped a book on me. Boo-hoo pitiful me.

The kids are in bed, should I go try to talk to him now? Either to thank him for the flowers but H&O would be better... or to say I want to call the Harleys, or what?

BTW... I've been meaning to post here about something I found a week or two ago. I occasionally look through H's browser history. A couple times, but not very often, I've found porno sites. And something else I'd seen, but didn't think anything of it until recently, is something called Squirrel Mail. I just figured it was some techie informative site, but it seems it's a place where you can actually have email accounts. So he could have a secret email account.

I haven't clicked on it yet cus I think he'd check his history and see that I'd gone there.

Could I be deluding myself in thinking he's so innocent and faithful?

Poor Jayne, poor Jayne's head.
If it makes you feel better I dont even know who 'Tim Horton's ' is.

Do you know how to delete history? Just the bits you dont want seen?


I very much want someone else to answer that.
However you've been on MB for long enuff. You know the 'signs'. What do you think?
I would like to say this is the second time very recently you have said something like this tho.

jayne, what if he's showing you love in a way that he's enthusiastic with the flowers? Has the talking thing has gotten into power struggle territory by now?

What about rereading the Frinds of Good COnversation article? Personally, I don't think it's nice to say, thanks for the flowers, but you shouldn't have. Were they for the realtor? [Because I find it hard to believe at this point that you would do something nice for me.] Did you put them in water yet?

I think you are in withdrawal, Jayne, or you would've enjoyed the flowers. What do you think? Unless you're depressed. Are you exercising? Getting enough sleep?

I think you owe it to your marriage to check out the connection between the squirrel site and the porn and your lack of physical intimacy together.

I was so hopeful; yesterday when you were going to call the Harleys. I think there is a lot here that is not being addressed in a way that builds love, and that you can get a real plan to restore your marriage to how amazing it once was. That you two can get the tools to make this move a growing together experience instead of growing apart.

I'm sure that's what he was doing. So one way of looking at it is, I should appreciate his effort and not "insist" that he do things "my way."

But another way of looking at it is, that is not meeting *my* EN of H&O and conversation; and I would be reinforcing that he doesn't have to be H&O, he can just pick up some flowers anytime he wants to get away with something.


I don't know... not on my part, I just plain have it as my top EN, I'm not saying that as a power struggle. I've actually learned to "settle" for almost no conversation; but in buying houses, deciding which museum to see, etc., some communication is required.


Yes I'm sure I need to use more of the Friends of Good Conversation. I'm sure he's been much more reluctant to talk as a result of past LBs. I've been trying to make up for that, have more pleasant experiences to replace the bad ones, but that's hard to do when he won't talk, and there's so much stress, and things must be discussed, and I get fed up with the lack of H&O.

The "you shouldn't have" was more like "Oh, you shouldn't have..." as in, not a bad tone, KWIM? He put them in water. I did feel bad for sort of raining on his parade, and I talked about how nice they were over dinner.


I'm majorly stressed. Everything seems such a struggle here, even just getting my new eyeglasses shipped to me, and getting a cup of coffee.


I looked this morning, and I think maybe he was just checking out the geeky techie site, not using the email. At least his usual username/password didn't work on the site, and his computer didn't automatically log him in.


I still am considering calling them. It's not easy to do though, when we've got so much going on already... I know that sounds like an excuse, but seriously, we've got passport and visa issues, selling two houses and buying a house, finding movers to go from Canada to the U.S., starting new jobs and new schools, and now we're into the annual end-of-summer collaboration meetings and workshops. Plus all the work we were supposed to be doing all summer.

"get away with"? That sounds like getting out of punishment. There was already a consequence, too you, to the kids, to him. I think he was trying to "normalize" the environment with the flowers. And you showed appreciation at dinner.

He doesn't "have to" be H&O. He can choose it knowing that it's important to you. You can negotiate for it. Or you could not, and go do something else. You could stay minimally connected through 180 style drive-by O&H and telling him when there is something you need to discuss. That you have made a decision, and wanted to run it by him, but if he wants to consent without hearing your decision, that you're okay with that, too. If you are.

What are your goals for today?

Ok... I'm trying to find the balance between the two ways of viewing it. Thanks for your comments, I think I'm starting to see...

I didn't like the phrasing either, that sounded like punishing and parenting, but I've been thinking lately about how we "teach" others how to treat us, and that was what I had in mind. I can see that I shouldn't be "making" him do anything... I do what I do, for example negotiating to get what I need, but then "let go of the response"... (gee where have I heard that before?)

But then, isn't that just reinforcing the behavior I don't want to encourage?

I'm not trying to justify punishing him, I'm really trying to sort this out...

I see that I had consequences, and the kids... you think he did also? I think you're saying, then, that the consequences are over and done with, I should let it go?

Does that mean return to "normal" as if it never happened, even without the conversation that I feel I need to get over it?

jayne, again, I really really think you need other viewpoints here. Because mine is very Alanon, "share your O&H and let go of the response," where I think MB would be more like, keep negotiating, this sacrifice thing is killing your marriage. Dr. Harley says in the alcoholism articles that Alanon prepares you for divorce, not for marriage. I think emotional detachment, the business relationship you describe, does run the risk of letting your love bank get too far in the red, instead of going to Plan B when you need it.

I think he did have a consequence, also, the letting down his loved ones, who are special to him.

I don't think negotiation is a consequence, I think it's a healthy act of love for your M.

Ok, I'll try the negotiating again if we have a chance to breathe tonight.

Right now he's working quite hard and that's meeting some needs like DS and whatever category is handling paperwork and finances.

Jayne, is there some small EN-meeting thing you would be enthusiastic about doing? The way he is enthusiastic about doing the paperwork today? Maybe bring him a cup of coffee or cold water? What does he like when you do? Would you be enthusiastic about that?

I ask as part of what we were reading about this weekend, how our actions influence our thoughts. The action of doing loving things help you feel loving, and helps you think that you want to do loving things to honor your values.

I'm just not sure I *want* to start feeling loving again... all part of the reinforcement that it's ok with me if he IBs, isn't H&O and ignores my need for conversation.

You shared your O&H, that it was not okay. Now he is doing kind things for the marriage, for the family.

Jayne, what do you think about those posts to whenifever/nowisthemoment. Are you IN or Out? Because I think your actions, your beliefs, your values influence you more than your H's do.

jayne, did we ever talk about maintaining a friendly silence instead of an angry, sullen one?

If you're not up to meeting ENs for him, what about doing kind things for the kids? For yourself? Again, small things, that make you feel more like yourself. This is from the Stosny books. You'll feel more connected to your core value.

Thanks ears... Sorry I'm not replying right away, I'm trying to multi-task.

I like the idea of a friendly silence instead of an angry sullen one. Especially cus I'm still confused about how this (withdrawing so as to not reqard IBs etc) is supposed to be different from sulking, which is not good.

I've got so much going on, I can't keep anything straight it seems, I'm just about to throw up my hands and say, fine! I'm not mad, you can IB all you want, we'll get whatever house I don't care anymore, send the kids to whatever school, sign whatever contracts, fix whatever for dinner, please just let me figure out this computer code.

... thanks for hanging in there with me, ears...

you are mad, jayne, it's telling you something's really wrong, something that is beyond what you are able to fix alone. That's okay, though, that's what folks like the Harleys and MCs are for, to give us the insight, motivation, and solutions when they are beyond what we can find.

I was trying to suggest some things to make you feel better. Your kids likely know something's *really* wrong, and your H is doing paperwork, and you're doing computer work. Neither of you two directly connecting to each other, or to them. I think that you and your H have had this work/life balance thing screwed up for a long time, like many of us do, and your love banks went way in the red, but that's recoverable. May well be the natural consequence of not addressing these issues earlier, but again, recoverable.

It's probably just fine to focus on the computer program today, and pick up with the family tomorrow. But then, accept that you feel badly because of YOUR focus, not your H's. Because of YOUR priorities. Because you have the power to do differently, to feel differently, to pick a different attitude. Whenever you are ready. You can start your day over whenever you want. Hang in there, jayne! ((((Jayne))))

oops, I just re-read my last post, and I noticed it sounded like I was saying to you, please just let me figure out the computer code... it was more like self-talk, or a prayer, KWIM?

I didn't mean you were bugging me. I was just expressing my feelings of stress, not complaining about the help and guidance you are giving.

Really, I promise.

Kinda like when Spider-man is battling Doc Oc, and the building starts to groan in anticipation of collapsing, and Spidey lifts his hands and says, "Now what?"