MiM:

I'm going to head over to Tangled's Thread and blast her a bit there.

Her sin here was not telling you what is going on.

1. The need for a staff person, either because of increased work or someone left.

2. There was a employee search commencing.

3. There was an interview process.

4. There WAS a decision made.

At any or all of these points, she could have brought you into the discussion. But she didn't. Her fault,

In ONE respect, you have to understand that she could hire a 90 year old man and still have an EZ/PA with him. I know its a trigger to you, that this new employee is similar to the prior OM. BUt it takes TWO to tango, and this guy is the unfortunate victim of your W's callous attitude to keeping you in the loop about whats going on.

I can't hire anybody for my firm unless Flamingo is in on the deal. She would prefer that I hire a someone older too. But she WILL BE in the loop.

Maybe this will be a big turning point in your M. For the better. The sitch reminds me of WhoMe and Skirmisher. WhoMe posted about some emails that Skirmisher sent and when he came here and defended his actions, he then "GOT IT" and thier M went to a much better place. I hope the same for you.

LG

Hi LG:

To her defense, she tell me about 1, 2 and even 3. What she didn't tell me was that (1) this new person would be reporting to her directly, and (2) it was a younger guy, and (3) when the decision was made to hire him.

I think not telling you is the LEAST of the problem. The problem is that she DID THIS. She is apparently not even aware of her own vulnerabilities and has learned nothing. There are not boundaries in place here to prevent this from happening again. This marriage is not affair proofed so she is taking foolish risks with your MENTAL HEALTH. She is foolishly placing her company in legal jeopardy.

I will be honest with you. It is a special kind of person who has affairs at work. It is a person who takes very foolish risks. It is a huge gamble to have an affair at work, because one has so much to lose.

The marriage needs to be AFFAIR PROOFED, MIM. Some things that come to mind are never having male reports. Another would be to tell her boss about her PAST so he can keep her honest at work. Ask him to agree to call you at home if he sees anything that should concern him. Get the password to her work email and work voicemail.

She needs to start actively observing boundaries in order to protect your marriage, MIM.

Hi MIM! Sorry in advance if my post is a bit sloppy. I have to write fast because younger son is going to college tomorrow and I have way too much to do. You wrote:

"Did your H discuss the hiring of this person with you BEFORE actually hiring her, or did he wait until afterward?"

He discussed it beforehand. Remember this was within a few months of d-day. My main point is this. It really doesn't matter if the OP is 20-something or 6o-something. There are highly ethical people in their 20s and screwed up people in their 60s. As a BS I want to know that my H knows how to handle himself now.

Mel commented that it takes a special person to have a work A. Mel, personally I think because people don't understand their vulnerabilities concerning As the workplace is just one big breeding ground for this to happen. A good friend of H's told him that he was not a "player". I agree. He was not out trolling around. He didn't understand bounderies. He thought he had to be friends with the people he worked with. When OW began being inappropriate, and he was even annoyed, he didn't know how to set his bounderies. When she got bolder, he got uncomfortable. Still no bounderies. Then the slippery slope began. As our life became more and more stressed by outside events, he began feeling good being around her. The feelgood chemicals kick in and as Steve Harley says "The frog doesn't jump out of the boiling water."

MIM, some here will probably disagree with me. However, several months past d-day I had a realization. This is just me. That is that I don't want to live my life checking H's emails, phone records, etc. I am in no way saying that H didn't have to do a lot to get me out of that mindset. However, at some point either he is a changed man, that understands what happened to him and how to protect our M, or he isn't.

We did have something a few months back that shows how even the most dedicated FWS doesn't get the trauma to us. First off, H has demonstrated his caution regarding bounderies, especially by giving me examples now, or asking my opinion, etc. But after work one night he casually talked about this new office manager has a desire to become an apprentice in his business. He thought it was cool because he was telling me about this. It triggered me because OW was going to become an apprentice also, which is when all the trouble began. The "me" now immediately talks about my triggers and makes sure that H gets it. Whether my feelings are justified or not, they are a direct consequence of H's bad choices.

Sorry, this was way too long. It's just that in listening to your story over the years I wonder if in your heart, in your gut, you really aren't sure if your W gets it. That she really understand the deep trauma inflicted on you. Not that any FWS will understand it, but they can try. That she really understands what she needs to do. Maybe if she is reading here she can speak to that.

exactly right.

MIM,

""She says that there was no deviousness involved, and I believe this.""

I believe you MUST believe this. Or else it's all starting over again.

My question I guess, is if there is no deviousness involved now, no flutter of her heart, no imagining anticipation, or no flash of guilt then when does the deviousness start as their relationship progresses?

To me it is more like deliberately hiding this from you simply by omission. She finally told you the day of the hiring, correct? What could anyone do by then?

Maybe it is all sub-conscientiously omitted, to give her the benefit of the doubt. Oh yeah, there is that benefit of the doubt dealio again.

Good luck with this. Be on that new guy like white on rice!

kirk

MiM, obviously I don't know your wife, but I do not believe she "forgot" to discuss this.

UNLESS she never ever mentions work related things. Is this the case?

If she is a woman who likes to talk about her work at all, trust me this would have become a topic of conversation some time during the past 3 weeks.

Also, I don't believe that she did not remember how old the guy is. She tells you "He is in his twenties"; but if she has seen his application I'd bet she knows exactly, and I'm going out on a limb and guessing he is almost exactly the same age as OM was.

She is trying to minimize, IMHO.

Actually, neither scenario is good. Either she is not being honest, or as Mel suggested, she really did NOT even think about it like a mature person would, which is terribly scary. Dishonesty or selfish thoughtlessness are neither one traits which will protect your marriage from a second adultery.

I want to wring your neck right now.

LOL - what did I do now??

I agree with this very much, CV55. In a marriage that is really in recovery, the boundaries are adopted by the FWS voluntarily. I don't check on my H. MY HUSBAND CHECKS ON MY HUSBAND! He holds himself accountable for complete transparency and NEVER puts himself in vulnerable situations.

And i will give you a recent example. He leads an audit team that goes out to various locations. One of his female subordinates asked if she could drive with him because her wrist was broken and she lives 5 miles from us. He told her no and asked her to check with another female in the group. He has srupulous boundaries and I do not worry.

So, it is not ME who holds my H to good boundaries, but HIM. A FWS who is really recovered maintains PROPER boundaries to ensure it doesn't happen again. ALL ON HIS OWN. WITHOUT BEING TOLD. If they don't they aren't recovered.

No, she sometimes discusses her work. Sometimes I have to prompt the discussion (e.g. "how was your day?"). Doesn't say much though - she was quite open about discussing her work at her last job. She just left out the parts involving her A with the OM.



I asked her some very straightforward questions about the new guy this afternoon. It turns out that he's 22 - younger than the OM was when they had their A. I also asked her why she chose him over the other applicants. She replied "because he was the best person for the job". Well, duh. I indicated that I was not satisfied with that answer, and I wanted to know why she thought he was the best person, and she replied with a bit more information about him - enough to satisfy me for the moment.

May I ask what ages (approximately) you and your W are?

WHY do I have to explain to a WW, who is supposedly 3 years into 'recovery" that she is accountable for her affair and NOT YOU, the BS?

Why am *I* having to tell your spouse that she needs to have appropriate boundaries in place to affair proof your marriage?

Is there some reason why this was not done by her HUSBAND?

My blood pressure is soaring right now.

We are both in our early forties.

When she started her A, the OM was 12 years her junior, in his mid-twenties, and she was just short of forty.

134/87 that is about the highest I have ever seen it. It is usually 100/70

I've discussed that all with her, a number of times before, Melody. I think she needed to hear it from someone else. Will it make a difference? That remains to be seen. I know that she tends to stop listening as soon as she feels she's being "attacked" for her views, and trying to discuss something with her where your views differ from hers is a bit like trying to dance with a bramble-bush. Please go easy on her .

You mean, she LISTENS at other times?? WHAT has she been listening TO??


And she listened???

You know what, MIM, you are the one who has chosen to live like this, not me.

If that state of mind is acceptable to you, I will leave YOU to handle it. I figure if you really didn't like it this way, you would do something about it yourself.

Her feelings? :RollieEyes:

Seriously, I think she cherry-picked from the Harley books that we bought and apparently she is still misguided about a few things, even though I've tried to explain more than once that she may have interpreted what Harley had to say incorrectly.

Also, she doesn't take part in this or any other marriage or relationship forums, and basically doesn't discuss our relationship at all with anyone until it's time for damage control, like this particular situation. Hopefully she'll get enough value out of her participation this time to see the benefit in doing so without waiting for another crisis to happen. Hopefully....