What are you doing to remedy this situation, MIM?

This is much more than just not being educated or reading a book. This is not even taking accountability for her affair, which is an obstacle to recovery. That is recovery 101.

If she is not even responsible for the affair, how can she be responsible for prevention?

118/74

Convincing her to post here again perhaps was was a good start. Other than that, we'd discussed some time ago looking into other relationship-building books, and she's actually reading one about communication at the moment. Interestingly enough, Harley doesn't seem to have the highest view of this approach - I remember him suggesting in one of his books that the most important thing was to work on those ENs to restore the love-banks, that the communication issue was secondary.



I think she believes that she's done that. Suggesting otherwise is to risk another dance with the bramble-bush, and I have the scars to show it...

I hope it works out for ya!

MiM, what were the circumstances of your W's first affair? I was intitally under the impression that she had one, but now if I understood, she has already had two. Is that correct?

Was it work related also?

Do you have children?

MIM,

I don't know much about your entire situation other than what I have read in this thread and your W's recent thread, but IMO from a BTDT POV, she doesn't "get it" and at this point probably isn't going to.

If you can live like you are more power to you. What is very frightening is you are 3 years into this and she has learned very little. From what I gather she is going to keep justifying what she has done and what she is going to do in the future.

It doesn't appear your boundaries mean anything to her and it doesn't appear she thinks she needs them. That is very scary.

Just my 2 cents.

LC

Sort of. We never really talked that much about it, though I did get enough details to know there was little EA involved - it was a short but quite active PA. We were not M'd yet, but had been a couple for at least two years - a really good one too, or so I thought at the time. Lots of late nights spend in each other's company really having a good time together. We were both still virgins - she'd indicated to me that she was not prepared to have sex before being M'd, and I respected that. Then we both decided to further our education, me choosing a local university, while she chose one further away.

Within a month or two of starting at her university, she was scr*wing around with a fellow student, and I experienced my first serious heartbreak when she waited until Christmas time to break the news to me - by first offering to have sex with me, then answering my questions truthfully when I asked why. I asked her who, when, how far they went, and how many times they did it. I think it never actually occurred to her how hurt I would be, until she actually saw my emotional response to her answers. I stormed out that night, but two days later I was back again - I basically convinced myself that we hadn't made any real commitment to each other at the time, and I managed to get over it in time.

Of course, she has a different spin on the situation, but that is how I remember it.

But here's something that might be relevant:

Her first boyfriend: Someone she worked with
Me: Someone she worked with
Her first A: A fellow student
Her second A: Someone she worked with

Doesn't take much of a genius to notice a pattern there...



We have two wonderful children. IMO they remain one of the main reasons why we're still together

MIM,

Do you have any kids?

I agree with lifeschoice. You deserve someone who will treat you with the respect you are due.

I was going to post to your wife, but I was afraid it might be too harsh, and it would probably be wasted on her anyway. She does not seem to care that her choices have, and continue to cause you pain and unrest.

She seems to be blameshifting and justifying her adultery. Does she really expect you to buy thet committing adultery was not her intent?

How can she possibly not get that she was intentionally F-ing around on you for two years?!?

If that's not intent, I don't know what it is.

My Wife pulled the exact same "Intent" Bullsh!t with me for months. She has at least pulled her head far enough out of her [censored] to recognize that the "not my intent" justification is just that, justification.

If I were in your shoes, I'd have a come to J&sus talk with her about YOUR boundaries, and YOUR expectations for her meeting them. If she hit me with anything remotely like her current cavalier attitude about what she's done and how you feel, I'd go pitch black plan B IMMEDIATELY!

She has no F-ing clue, nor does she seem to care!!

Sorry for the unsolicited advice, but when I read her thread last night I wanted to reach through the laptop and...

Be strong, brother.

You deserve someone who will protect you and your feelings. It's what marriage is supposed to be about.

oops, sorry, just noticed this asked above.

I'm so sorry for you, man...

Your wife has a wayward mind and is not in recovery. That is the problem, MIM. And we can't make her be in recovery. She has no reason to change because you will take her on any terms and there will not be consequences. There is nothing we can say that will overcome that.

She knows this too...and because she does and because she has a wayward mindset, I think MiM better get used to the idea of continued mistreatment.

MIM,

I just read your WW's thread and it put a knot in my stomach.

One thing I've learned here is that we all have different tolerances for taking abuse, and you appear to have a very high tolerance for it.

All I can do is try to relate it to how I would handle a similar situation, and I've got to tell you ... with what you've endured during the past 3 years, this latest stunt of hiring the young guy, and the way she obviously feels about you, I just couldn't take it and would move one with my life, which is TOOOO short to have to endure this much BULLSH!T.

My wish for you is STRENGTH, because whatever you decide, you're going to need plenty of it, whether you decide to stay and take the abuse or break away and move on.

Good Luck to you!!!

MIM, I believe that you are a huge problem in the marriage.

First off, you married a cheater. You are the poster child for everyone who comes here before being married to talk about a cheating fiance. They are ALWAYS told to walk away. As you should have done.

Until you set your own boundries your wife never will.

If you don't kick her out you are mad.

Your own self esteem is non-existant.

You say you have children. Do you realize that they will mirror you and your wife? Do you want that for them?

Please, do something.

This is exactly it.

And you KNOW MIM. You know when this happens...

Guess what?

I believe it from the roots of my hair to the tips of my toesies that YOU DON'T HAVE THIS and you KNOW it.


And this...

This is NOT the new guy's fault.

AT ALL.

Be on him?

All he did was get a freaking job.

HE'S.

done.

nothing.

wrong.

Poor kid.

Mim, can you share with us a little what life was like before your W's A?

Apparently, something so grievous happened, that her respect and feelings were damaged before the A even began. :RollieEyes:

Is there a semblance of truth in that, or is this the typical rewriting of history by a wayward?

Sometimes, a BS who has done something wrong or embarrassing (illegal activity or heavy porn use for instance) will feel so guilty themsleves that it makes them timid to stand up against WS adultery.)

Did YOU feel you had her love and respect BEFORE the A started up?

MiM:

I stand by the personality analysis I posted directly to Tangled. Your latest revelations simply underline who she is and who she could be with better motivation and reason on her part. Simply put, she doesn't get it.



Infatuation junkie, likes the rush, but a very reasoned mind pours cold water on it pretty quick and she goes back to self interest.

You were a "Good catch" and her reasoned mind makes her long term decisions, while her emotional mind makes short term ones, i.e., the thrill wore off quick, now how about long term.

Of course it occurred to her how hurt you would be. She believed that she could gaslight you and that belief turned out to be true

I am extremely disturbed by where you rank in her definition of "Family." I have read it at least half a dozen times and still cannot believe what I am seeing. Could it have been a Freudian slip? I just don't know. But it does appear to be within character.


What the blinking heck is her definition of immediate "Family?"

I think it is a hoot that she is reading a book on communication, which I think of as better "Gaslighting" through knowledge.

MiM, when someone parses everything that has to do with something like this, it is because they are unwilling to reveal the inner core of their thought processes. Tangled DOES parse everything.

MiM, when someone blasts BS as bitter, they haven't a clue.

MiM, she may be too old to grow up without a major shock.

MiM, you are "Protecting" your family as you should, to include your minor children. For no good reason at all, I suspect her cultural viewpoint on family isn't the same as yours and in fact doesn't necessarily include a husband except as a convenience and as a public statement not well thought out or embedded into her way of doing business.

MiM, you are enabling how she does business by allowing yourself to get "Tangled" up in her rationalizations and obfuscations instead of adopting boundaries that are firm, consistent and easy to understand, period, get out of my life if you wiggle, squirm and try to gaslight me.

MiM, you were a "Good catch" and easy to gaslight. But from her own words, your value to Tangled is what she gets out of the relationship, as she has chosen to interprete Harley, not out of what she can put into the relationship and family.

The last one is a "Gotcha" by any measure and likely not what you want to hear. Sorry. I do think that she is not a hopeless case as I told her. She simply needs to grow up.

She bailed the last time because she didn't like what she was hearing. This time the words and opinions have been even stronger. So long as someone is willing to argue with her as she parses her situation and how she supposedly thinks, she is happy. When someone calls her with a bottom line that has no wiggle room, she bails.

Larry

Larry, I asked her what she meant by the family remark, and she did not answer at all. That was the line I kept re-reading also.

It literally causes me physical pain to see her saying something like that, knowing full well MiM can read it. Very insulting and uncaring! I tried to give her an opening to explain what and why and how that could be.

I am going to predict that she will not return to her thread, and will instead take out her anger at the members here, on her husband. I hope I'm wrong.

Bingo. Great post, Larry. I agree with every word. MIM thinks I should "go easy on her" or she won't listen. Yeah right, as if going easy on her has caused her to listen to him. We can see the result of that. A big fat wayward mentality that gaslights and rationalizes.

How old are the children, MiM?

Mel, you and PeP have called me out lately with "Attaboys," which means a lot to me because I am really trying to help with whatever viewpoint I bring to the table. I guess I am getting better at this since you chewed on me

Anyway, let me expand on one point that needs adding to this, imho.

I think this family's situation is a poster child for the down the road consequences of the concept of "Good catch." I posted a bit on this sometime back and didn't really get the kind of responses that I was looking for from you ladies.

As near as I can tell from careful "Listening" to women talk, "Good catch" is a concept that many women adopt when they are looking to start a family. So do men with a different standard. And I think that many, many times, it bites them down the road. My analysis of good catch is both complex and simple. It is complex because women are and simple because it has to do with "Power" in a relationship. Males are simple, they do their good catch routine based on their eyeballs.

In my opinion, good catch means that the one who applies it (and that can also be a male as I said) believes they will have the dominant role in the relationship and thereby engage in exchange for what is in it for them instead of what they can give.

The way I see good catch playing out here is that Tangled isn't as committed to MiM as MiM is to her and from there all things become obvious.

I would bet a dollar against a plug nickle that the kids "Know" something is going on between mommie and daddy. In spite of what I see as MiM's heroic efforts to save the family, I don't see good down the road in terms of what is being taught to the kids as things stand now.

Larry