I have read the entire thread with a mixture of hope and gratefulness.

First off, congratulations to both of you for taking steps to correct things and save the marriage.

I am your husband in this scenario in many ways. I have been married 12 yrs, but together 22 and we have suffered in much the same way. (oh, and 2 beautiful kids)

I have been told that i am not her "Soulmate" and that seperation and divorce may be in our future.

Sucks because we have such a great life together in most other respects.

Much like you, sex was never easy for her and she does not feel connected to me. Much like your H, I am passive and have been trodden on for many years.

We have tried to have it for the sake of the marriage but it has not helped us find the connection she desperately needs. Been through times where it is there, times where it is not. I always felt it was good, or good enough, but shehas been totaly unimpressed with my performance.

We have been faithful to each other (thankfully) but there has been an event recently that brought us to the brink. It has been three weeks now and we are both at the end of our rope. I am living in a seperate room, but still in the house.

I don't see divorce as an option and desperately want to see this marriage work, but I am learning the depth of hr sadness and want her to be happy.

I feel that we will be worse off if we don't try to stay together and work things out. She feels like she has been trying for over 15 yrs now and doesn'thave the energy to try or deny herself ny longer.

I wish I could share her story with you so she could maybe see that there is hope. We both have differences that need to be worked out. We both have faults in ourselves and how we interact that have led us to this point.

I know I can be the man she needs, but she can't imagine that right now. I have no doubt that she is not the one for me, but it completely one sided.

we try a new counselor next week. Godwilling it will offer some sort of hope, as life hs been hell for the last three weeks.

Congrats again and thanks for sharing your journey.


Any advice to someone like your husband?

Passivenomore

Respect to you for sharing.

You haven't shared too much about your W but maybe she has some FOO issues that need sorting out in addition to changing her thinking. I was at the end - just like my post said but when you are at the end, then that can be the time that you are wide open and willing to try anything.

I will ask my H what key things kept him going and believing these last few years and get back to you on that. He knows I post here but has never read it (would not help him).

My H has always been loving towards me. I was VERY lucky - could have easily been otherwise. I now see the amazing strength he had. He also joined a mens group for separated/divorced guys and began working on himself independently which made me view him a little differently and I respected that.

Counseling is a key thing although it is quite a commitment. Having a pro marriage counselor is key. We had couple of counselors who gave us very 'individual/independent' advice which divided us in the most subtle way.

You are aware, here, open and willing to work at your marriage. That is great.

Keep me posted, all the best.

details if they help any:

We were childhood sweethearts. She had been with one other guy all the way prior to me, and she was my first. We've been faithful ever since. We've been through many ups and downs over the years, but always had much love and respect for eachother.

She has been at her end too, and now fear it may really be the end. She wants to seperate and go find herslf.

foo issues? yeah we both hav'em.

She was born fifth out of five into a chaotic family, neglected and emotionally abused. They had nothing and her mom was not the best role model. Her father left when she was 3 after he was suspected of fooling around wh her step-sisiter.

Her mother was wild and easy after that and my wife has vivid memories of her banging a new guy each night and then abusing the kids after (making them get up in the middle of the night to clean the house, etc)

Her mother was alwas depressed, and even institutionalized once. she is dead now, but it was not an ideal upbringing.

I offered her a sense of calm and security...I was her safe choice. She feels like she cheated herself knowing that I was that and didn't fulfill her even back then. (news to me) We were passionate and in love once, but it was never easy. Many people on these forums talk about how they had a great sex life early in their reationship and it just gradually went away, but not so with us. I was always the unexperienced one who could never get it right when it came to sex. I feel like I was never given the chance. 22 yrs together and I feel like there are so many ways in which we haven'teven tried to experience each other....we are missing something deeper than the sex.

Your post rang a bell there, and after searching for weeks, it is the first time I have found a story similiar in that way.

I know I can be the man she needs, but there are so many issues for us to sort out first.

She views me only as a friend, and a good father. Not as a good husband (at least not in providing the deep love she desires). I am too needy when it comes to affection in her eyes..too compassonate, too willling to help out....too desperate.

Sice our blowup, I have tried to be less of that. I read a 180 list on Divorcebusters that was an eye opener to me. 2 days of doing everything in reverse and she did ask for us to talk. I was so excited, but it only resulted in the conclusion that we need major help and that it may still be too late.

I have a problem with being assertive and confusing that with anger. When she says "act more like a man" it only seems to manifest meanness in me. That has been hard fo me because since the big blowup, I have had so many emotions that i have never experienced before. I just haven't ever felt that much desperaion, lonliness, anger, and sadness all at the same time.

My family and my wife are precious to me and i would do anything to save that.
I've written that all out, but it does no good at this point. It is not enough for her to know that am good in all hese other areas but that I leave her with no passion.

I feel cheated and lied to by the one person I have ultimate trust in. Cheated that she would stoop so low as to let this go on for so long, and that now two kids are in jeopardy of losing all they know. She came from a family riddled with divorce, and it does not scare her in the least bit.

We have come to an agreement that we will be respectful to each other for the sake of the kids, but i feel so enraged to play nice right now. I want my kids to know that this is a rough time and that that is why mommy and daddy don't sleep together anymore.

That is besides the fact that i am lonely and feel isolated. I know we are both to blame for this, but there is just no attempt to help save it on her end.

The sense of security I offer by providing for her is the only thing keeping her around right now. If kids weren't involved, then she would be gone for sure. I want it fixed before an act on her part to find what she is looking for drives me away forever.

I don't think i have the courage of your husband to stick it through that. That is a vow we took in earnest, as far as I am concerned. She hasn't gne there yet, and it speaks alot for her character...to not have been there and done that already after all this time.

Once again,you are to be commended. i have a lot to learn to help matters on my end until or if she is ready to work her stuff out.

thanks again for your response...you give me some hope.

P

It is uncannily similar to our experience.

It does sound as though your W has some FOO issues to deal with. I was skeptical of regurgitating my 'stuff' but, you know, there are times in our lives where we just have to come back to it. Like it or not, it can greatly influence who we are and our actions and thinking today.

"She views me only as a friend, and a good father. Not as a good husband (at least not in providing the deep love she desires). I am too needy when it comes to affection in her eyes..too compassonate, too willling to help out....too desperate."

I thought about my H this way too. It took an affair with a 'not good' person and being here on MB to fully realise what a loving man I had at home. The advice here helped me to see that it takes an amazingly strong person to love someone for all those years and forgive their infidelity. I hope she doesn't find this out the hard way. One great thing you said is that you were "passionate and in love once" This is huge. From what I have read, it is 'easier' to work to get that back than never having had it at all.

"I feel cheated and lied to by the one person I have ultimate trust in. Cheated that she would stoop so low as to let this go on for so long, and that now two kids are in jeopardy of losing all they know. She came from a family riddled with divorce, and it does not scare her in the least bit.

My H felt incredibly cheated. He used to say this to me and to the MC ' why didn't you say something earlier in the marriage?'. So I understand that feeling. Unfortunately, divorce was not even an option. Being disatissfied in the marriage was not even an option. I told myself I had a good husband and my problems were my own fault and my own 'sinfulness'. I too came from a broken home with broken relationships spread throughout the family. I personally DID NOT want to go down that road too. I didn't want it for our children either.

I encourage you to stay with the process and not give up. You are aware of the issues, it would seem, and have begun working on yourself. I'm sure your W will begin to notice things already.

Does your W know anything about MB? Have you done any of the questionnaires or talked about this stuff?

I must admit there were periods, particularly in the last year where I would just switch off inside. I felt tired and did not want to try anymore. Emotionally, I just shut down. Hopefully your W is not in this place and that she remains even just the slightest bit open so she can 'hear' any advice and help the MC has for you both.

Will be thinking of you. Do keep sharing.

A thought: It may be worth you starting another thread so you can get even more support and advice from anyone else walking in your shoes. I have had some great help, as you have read. So, I want this for you too. Having lots of input can be challenging but ultimately helpful.

My H is away for a week. I am glad of the space, in a sense. It has been an eventful fortnight!

I have been feeling, lately, that this really is an 'exercise'. My feelings are always running to catch up. Is this the way it supposed to be? I just keep telling myself 'it's been a LONG time with things being the other way, it's going to take quite some time for this to be the norm'. I guess that even though there is physical pleasure, all the mental and emotional stuff takes time to sort out.

Just wanted to say, that's all. NOT giving up, just wanted to unload that feeling.

again, thanks for sharing and for the tips.

She is emotionally shut down for sure. I don't think a visit here would happen anytime soon.

She is doubtful that anything would help, but willing to try, if that makes sense.

She has told me what hanges she would like to see in me for some time, but it wasnot going to happen in our old patterns. Now that the old is gone for good, we have a chance at some lasting changes.

I went through some old home movies last night when i couldn't sleep, and i was struck by how hurtful she had been on a routine basis. Times when the camera is rolling and she didin't know it. Comments that directly relate to us and our problem that just went unnoticed time after time. Things that were important to her and not me caused huge disagreements...."I told you to call that guy and such and such....I told you to blankety blank, etc"

She feels like she has had to stand up for me since i wouldn't all those years. If eel that I just have much nicer ways of getting my point across. We were both right at times, but both wrong in how we dealt with it.

I am tired of letting her run rampant over my feelings. The threat of her leaving is great to open that up in me and realize that I will survive this with or without her, painful as that is to say.

I am trying to stay cheerful on my side. I know that a big part of lies in her hands and is out of my control. I have plenty of issues to work on myself, so I wll try to let that occupy my time until we meet this next MC on friday.

The kids go back to school today, so that should give her some good time to herself (at least from 9-3).

I would love to try a true MB session, weekend, whatever if this next MC offers no hope. There's my next post.

thanks again, I rally appreciate your time.

Spent the whole evening filling out emotional needs Q&A and lovebusters.

She brougt it up, and I just happened to have printed them out today at work.

I had written her a letter last week asking for her to be brutally honest with me and tell me what she needs/wants and to not hold back.

She answered it when i got home today and it was extremely liberating.

Hours of honest heart to heart eye to eye talk and i finally feel that there may be some true hope for us.

Now I am nervous as heck to go to a new counsellor this week....afraid to take any steps back after this big step forward.


Felt so good to convey where i am at with my feelings and know truly where she is.

That is all good, but there is still plenty of bad, plenty of work, and plenty of doubt in her that any of this will bring about lasting change.

FOO issues...you said you addressed yours some. How did you do that?

I am convinced that at the heart of her inability to accept touch there are major FOO isses that have not been addressed properly. We have discussed them many times before. Anytime our sex and touch issues have come up we discuss them but there is no improvement there. We wonder if there could be something sodeep and sinister thatit could be at the root, but se is real opn with her whole crappy childhood andhsn't held back there. She just cringes at being touched. realted to me that even her own mother and sister would always try hard to elicit hugs and she was cold at the thought. What a thing to go through life and never be able to really be hugged...i can't even imagine.

Maybe that is another post as well. You have been the first person I could relate to here, or anywhere regarding this craziness, so I thought I would pick your brain a little.

Happy and feeling relief for the first timein three weeks, maybe i should just cool off and see where things go from here.....whew! I hope I can finally get some rest tonight...it has been a long time.

Well Done P! I like your 'dog with a bone' approach. Just keep going for it. It seems like your W is open too. All is seemingly not lost.

It took a great Counselor in around 1998 to begin to help me identify my FOO issues. When our 2nd child - a daughter was born in '96 I started to have some anxiety of repeating the same relationship with her as I had with my mother. I realized too that I wasn't very physically demonstrative (sound familiar?). My daughter was instantly loving and physically needed me. This was emphasized even more when we had our 3rd child - he was super clingy, kissy and huggy. Huge learning curve for me.

I talked a lot with the counselor about my upbringing. Absent father and distant, cold mother. I learned about my mother and she had had a terrible childhood and thought my father would be her savior. Emigrating from her home country to a new one where my father began to cheat on her mercilessly. She lived surviving. Wasn't loving - only showed this in cooking meals, taking us to church, clean clothing. She didn't have the vocabulary to love us or the physical capacity. Obviously it affected me.

So I had to begin to learn to show and speak love to my children who helped me be a loving mother. It meant getting in touch with a lot of my feelings towards my mother - I felt angry and cold towards her. My counselor said it was okay not to spend time with her or communicate much for some time, until I had worked things through. I took this advice for quite a few months and it helped me to release a lot of stuff - her judgement, unkindness. It has been replaced over the years with a deep emotional understanding of her and even though we're not best friends or anything, I love her. I love the way she is with our children. She can love them and show them in a way she couldn't us. For that I am so grateful.

It has been a process P. My children have taught me to love and are loving human beings. They got my H's gene....lol My H is the most loving and affectionate father too. Quite a softy - which has not been all good, btw. However, he has always hugged me and wanted to show affection - so I have learned a lot from him too (even when I haven't even wanted to accept it because I grew up not having it).
It fell suffocating and needy ......... ring any bells?

You seem to be heading in the right direction and working on stuff already. So hopefully you will be able to discern whether the MC is the right one for you both.

Sorry, I have gone on rather.

thank you, you have been a ray of hope for me through this.

Lots o similarites there.

I am trying to learn boundaries and tryin to become the type of man she really needs, and hasn't had. I don't know how tough of a road it will be, but I am bound and determined to work this out. For my sake, if nothing else.

I feel so bad for her, so responsible for causing or contributing to this mess. I hope we can keep the channels open and learn to gorw together again.

It sucks to love a person so much and feel so distant at the same time. Hurts even worse when you realize you did it to each other!

Thanks again and may you guys continue to grow.

My My My what a difference a month can make eh Nowisthemoment. It seems to me you have gone from resignation and dispair to offering valuable insight and encouragement to fellow travelers.

You certainly have done some amazing work. So isn't it interesting that what was a terribly difficult moment in your life has now become the springboard to a new reality for you.

Keep up the good work you are amazing. I am encouraged everytime I read one of your posts.

By the way good work on using the forum to vent. Shows you are human.

Keep the faith.

Fake it till you make it!

BCBOY

bcboy

Thank you for your amazing encouragement.

Yes, I can't believe my internal shift. Even my H has said I have changed and it is marvelous and I should keep doing whatever it is I am doing!

So, I read your post for the first time today as I thought you must be some kind of veteran. Wow, you are relatively new here too. I felt the pain of what you're going through and, would not have been able to empathize, even a month ago. It twists my gut knowing I put my H through that and more. I truly understand that whole WW fog thing. We are in such denial and self deception it's scary. I didn't have MB all through my A and just had counselors that basically told my H if we 'didn't have it to begin with, then we were never going to get it now'. I feel so lucky that somehow I was able to 'get back'. We separated for 3 months - but we got back.

So to you I offer encouragement to stay strong and listen to the good stuff you're getting.

I am not a veteran, and I wished I did not have to be here, however I am glad that the forums are available.

What I was saying to you was from my heart, as I know what it feels like to be betrayed. Men are different from women in some ways and the physical aspect especially if the wife participates enthusistically is a real boost to the ego and meets many mens needs.

If you eavesdrop in a locker room often the conversational kidding can center around the mans ability to perform and a women has so much potential to affirm a man in this area.

I am very happy you were able to work your way through this. The journey is never over. The important part is we must remember to behave in an honourable and respectful manner in all our dealings, especially our spouse.

I know I have failed my wife in the area of emotional needs. Emotions are very foreign to me. I have a difficult time understanding them, and I do not automatically know what a woman needs emotionally. As a result I left our relationship exposed.

I am happy that you are doing well. Keep up the good work. And I hope you will build a stronger and better marriage. Encourage others because of your experience and new understanding.

Thanks for your encouragement.

God Bless

Passivenomore,

Perhaps I can offer you something to think about. When I was a kid, I was starting to play sports, and I did play into college. All the time my father used to tell me to be "more aggressive". I kept thinking he meant more physically aggressive. To be more of a man so to speak.

I remember I played a game in HS and really played well. I made double digit tackles, and in those days we played both ways. All the touchdowns we scored were right through the hole I made in the defense, I recovered two fumbles, and even had an interception.

You know what my father told me? "I was not aggressive enough."

You know what the moral of that story was? Not that I could not please my father. Nope that was not it. What it was was more complex. He could not communicate well with me was one part of the moral of the story. The other part was that he meant I was NOT mentally aggressive enough. I was wiping those guys out because I was bigger, stronger, and faster. I was NOT wiping those guys out because I was anticipating what they would do, and out thinking them. He wanted my anticipating and out thinking them.

You need to be more of a man, but that does not being more physically aggressive. It means anticipating what she will need for a birthday, an annivesary. It means setting your boundaries ahead of time not after something happens. It means realizing she is not happy and doing something before she acts or asks. It means being steady, well considered in your actions, and consistent in what you will tolerate and what you won't.

In short it means you need to become mentally aggressive, not physically aggressive. Any fool can do the later, but it is much harder to do the former.

Does this make sense?

God Bless,

JL

Great advice JL. it will take me some time and some effort. I have always struggled with the notion of being aggressive but not being mean, and your clarification helps.

Thank you for the wisdom.

Hi

Just need a little help with reconnecting. My H been away all week, back later today. We have had the odd text each day and he has called every night to talk to me and the children.

So, why do I not feel excited that he is coming back? Despite saying affection things and thinking the positive things about him. Things were different when he left than they had been for some time, as you know. I guess this too must be part of the fake it until you make it? Right?

Nowisthe,

I are remembering how it used to be, and anticpating it will be the same. Old habits die hard. IT is not part of fake it, it is part of you recalling the most recent history, rather than what you associated your marriage with for a long time.

Oh, and you can love him and not be doing cartwheels when he comes home. You could simply welcome him home with a hug, a smile, and a "glad you are home" statement. OR you could go all out and give him a kiss with that. :RollieEyes:

Have some fun, relax, don't over analyze, and understand that you may need to be in his presence right now to feel what you were feeling when he left. Your cool, don't worry so much.

God Bless,

JL

NITM, Dr. Harley writes about this somewhere, that it's harder for women than men to reconnect after travel. It may take a day. Be patient with yourself, you're normal, hon.

Have you read SAA? It recommends no work travel recovering from an affair if possible. Because that's part of the environment that made the affair possible to begin with. What do you think?

THANKS JL and EO

Okay I will relax and just wait for him to be home and settled again. I feel like I should be 'putting on a show' but I guess when he's actually here in the flesh I'll be better able to connect.

We have not done any work with a counselor yet since my posting on the board. I realize now that when we did see a MC post my affair I was still in a fog.

I think we have both learned behaviors and have ingrained habits from years that don't help each other.

I wish I could help ya.

I'm afraid all the advice I can give is just reassurance that he will be darned excited to see YOU when he gets back.

I know that is a blessing and a curse.

There are a lot of us here who don't have anyone excited to see them when they get home, so maybe you can see the blessing inthat.

Best of luck and stay positive.

Passivenomore

Actually, that's a good way to look at it and I should be grateful for that. However, he's always happy to see me - slap me in the head!

I think that when he is away (which is regularly) I do go to a independent place inside. Does that make sense to anybody? I've never longed for him to come back. I shut off. I do without. I recognize that about myself. So, it's a bit adjustment when he's back. So this is the first time he's been away since I joined MB and started taking advice. Guess I just thought I would feel differently.

Sorry I just want to thrash this out because I'm having difficulty today. Agitated. I know this is no overnight change thing but I'm agitated.

EO what is SAA?