Luna,

I'm so sorry to hear that your Dad is still very ill. Spend as much time as you can with him, and make sure to tell him how much you love him. You are in our thoughts and prayers.

Update.

I am trying to think if asked the question: what would be 'helpful' to Luna... I have strangely come up with two doable things:

When WS left, I stayed in the family home. He mostly took his 'personal' things. WS has given a lot of 'value' to the furniture in the house as being part of MY assets in the D papers. In one of the mediation sessions, I suggested that the value be removed, and that we proceed in sharing them 'equally'.

I also have a lot of 'stuff' in the basement that WS accumulated over the years that I have tried to slowly reduce without much help from WS, and worry that I will get much LESS help were we to 'legalize' anything.

So, I know that emotionally, because of worries over my dad's health and also some stress at work, and just needing a 'break' from contact with WS, I plan to inform mediator and WS to temporarily postpone next mediation session, but in the meantime, proceed with (a) list of furniture to split and SPLITTING it (b) deal with the accumulated 'stuff' in the basement.....that both WS and I avoid like the plague!

Now....I know WS is going to have trouble dealing with (b) because although he likes to accumulate stuff, he hates 'letting go' of thing.... yeah....may have 'hording' issues.... so that, at least, if he 'washes' his hands of it, I can DEAL with it (like, have a container and dump everything!)

...I think I hesitated insisting on this before because I feared being accused of being picky, wanting to prolong process...and agreeing?! :RollieEyes:

....I KNOW this would be very HELPFUL to ME! ...I can feel that 'heavy feeling' lifted just THINKING about it.... what it does mean...is that I am actually moving....FORWARD!

Could you give him everything in the basement in this way?

1. Rent a storage shed for one month (100.00)

2. TAke pictures of the stuff in basement

3. Have men or boys come with a truck and move everything to storage. Take a few pictures of it in storage.

4. Give your husband the key to the storage shed, he will have to pay the second month himself....and also give him one of three sets of the pictures you took of the stuff.

5. Keep one copy of the pics of the stuff and pics of it in the storage shed so he cant say you kept some of it...etc. Give your attorney the third copy of all the pictures.

6. Job is DONE!

Hi Stellakat,

Thanks for your suggestions...I may find some unpractical given my situation, but they are MOST MOST helpful in keeping me on track.... because ever since 'putting my finger' on these issues and focusing on it as a 'goal', just the 'thought' of reducing the LOAD of 'THINGS' around here HELPS me breathe better! ...which means that it is the right direction to go...FOR ME!

...I treated myself to a massage yesterday, guess what? ....apparently my BREATHING could improve...LOL!

So... after several drafts of my reply, which as usual started off containing a lot of explanations (dad's illness, stress at work, sleep deprevation....that would fall on deaf ears of a WS!), I have come to what I think is the bare minimum, and if it can be reduced more, all the better:

Mediator and WS,

Because other matters require my immediate attention, I suggest temporarily postponing the next mediation session. In the meantime, I think we can take the time to get ahead on the division of furniture and 'reducing to a minimum' whatever is in the basement of the house.

I therefore suggest that both WS and I prepare a list of furniture/appliances we would like to have to compare and use to decide, as well as suggesting a more effective method to substantially reduce the content of the basement (which I have tried to do, but unsuccessfully).

Luna,

Just one suggestion, leave out the part that you have attempted to clean out anything in the basement on your own. A crazy WS looking for any excuse to accuse you of any 'wrong' doing will take that and say you sold HIS stuff.

Making separate lists and going from there is a good idea. Also, good work on just keeping it to a minimum. Remember, in this 'negotiation', the less said by you the better.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the support, Bugs,


He really can't Bugs... anything I have given away/thrown out, I first asked WS to 'look over the designated pile' in the basement, to which he has access by a side door...I know that WS may not deserve THAT much consideration but that is exactly why I do it....because it's what I would NORMALLY do....trying to NOT REACT and give WS 'excuses'....as he does very well with that already! :crosseyedcrazy:....unfortunately, this is proving to be a VERY VERY slow process...

...and, you may not know this Bugs, (and this could serve as a 'heads up' for NEWBIES lurking here to learn of the degree of fog a WS can get into), to better understand how WS makes it easier for me to stay in PLAN B and has made it a necessity to move forward with Plan D:

...we have two properties with tenants... he lives in one and I live in the other.... but last Fall when tenant just above his apartment decided to leave.... he asked that I not be an obstacle to OP taking the apt???? :RollieEyes:

...that's when I realized it was time to consult a lawyer to better protect myself legally (and, yes, I did ask whether it was worth trying 'blocking' the rental to OP....decided that it would be a waste of time, energy and funds....because, here, potential tenants have rights... and unless OP has credit issues....it would have been considered discriminatory for a landlord not to rent (on the basis of her being OP!).... and so this is how I came to be LANDLORD to OP! :crosseyedcrazy: ...of course, I can just hear the 'justification'..... Luna's Plan B!...Luna can't 'let go'!

...but Luna is just trying remain SANE, hold on tight, and SURVIVE the rollercoaster ride in affairland!
:crosseyedcrazy: :crosseyedcrazy:

Look at it this way Luna: She has to PAY you for him

Oh, I bet writing that check every month is hard for her.

I'm sure you dream of her not paying her rent. Not sure about there, but here we can evict pretty quickly if rent is not paid. It's about the only reason we can get a quick eviction.

Hi CL,


Can you believe it, CL?

So...in affairland, I guess this is how OP 'proves the lengths she is prepared to go for WS' (or as I see it, how to best put pressure on WS to proceed with plan D!).... because she already has done that....for HIM! :RollieEyes:

Luna,

Time will tell if she feels it was money well spent. I highly doubt it.

Hang in there Luna. You sound a little down, but this too shall pass.

My friend just told me yesterday about her sister. Somehow the sister looked at the tax return (which she never does) to find a $180K withdrawal from a 401K account. Well, you know the rest of the story. They suspect that he has another family somewhere, so she's trying to determine what is going on. He moved out but they have 4 children - ages 4 and up. That story brought me down. I so feel her pain.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that we are beyond that initial Dday stuff, so at least we can be thankful for that. I guess?

Hi CL,


Yeah...you're 'reading' me right....it feels like I have more balls to juggle than I think I can handle...

..took the afternoon off with a friend that also needed a 'break' for other reasons.... we went off to an Art Gallery to take in some 'beauty', as she calls it... very enjoyable.



ouch!



It's one way to look at it, CL, I guess... :crosseyedcrazy:

Big back to you, too.

Update.

I have postponed mediation session for a few weeks, until after my trip from visiting with my parents in early october.

Sent an email to mediator and WS informing them, and suggested though that in the meantime, WS and I could make lists and work on 'separating' CONTENT of family home... (been wanting to empty out the basement forever!) ...if this gets done...it would be a BIG relief for me

Luna,

Just curious as to why you've asked for the delay? I understand about wanting the basement cleaned out & the making of list to negotiate from,,,but I'm a bit unclear as to why the delay of several weeks?

Hi Bugs,


My parents live about a day's drive from where I live...my dad has cancer and is not responding well to treatment...I haven't visited since January, so I am making arrangements to visit them in a couple of weeks for a few days...

I couldn't see myself doing two emotionally-charged 'events' back to back....decided to put parents' visit first....then meeting with WS.... in the meantime, I know I will find it quite helpful if I can get WS to focus on what he wants and arrange for pick-up and reduce items in the house (so I alone can decide what to do with the rest!)

I would also like to consult with an accountant first and get an idea of any potential tax fallout were any 'buying out' happen, since it involves rental properties, and it may involve capital gain taxes (at least where I live!)

....it also will give me time to evaluate if I want to consider 'buying out WS' his share, and take on responsibility for rental property alone, when it was never my intention had it not been in partnership with WS.

...and on top of everything, after working 5 yrs with the same boss, I have a new boss to 'adapt to'.... in our busiest period at work!

the short answer: stress management?!?! :crosseyedcrazy:

Luna,

Hope all is well. I think you did the right thing. Accept no more monkeys!!!!! You have enough on your back as it is.

Hi CL,


Thanks for the support...and I agree...I got enough...and it wouldn't take much now to go into 'overload'!

I don't think I updated it on my thread....but I did write a very short email to WS about it....whether he gets it or not, I don't know.... but I needed to let him know...

...paraphrasing it:

...that it was not my intention to slow-down the process of Plan D, if it's what he wanted....just that I was being watchful of the stress level I was experiencing, given our situation and life in general, and trying to ensure I maintain a minimum 'balanced healthy lifestyle'....and thought one objective we could agree on which would avoid us problems down the road, is to ensure we can continue...'earning a living'! :RollieEyes: ...and thanked him for his...PATIENCE...

...it is MY truth....so I don't really know how this would be interpreted in laland....but just in case! :crosseyedcrazy:

Update.

About a year a ago I participated in a Workshop on NVC (Non-Violent Communication - Marshall B. Rosenberg's approach on concepts that have been around for a while :RollieEyes:)

Yesterday I finally made time for what they call 'free practice' sessions on it....

...and spent a whole day in a room full of wonderful, warm, well-intentioned, generous people who want to 'practice' a healthy way of communicating one's needs (sound familiar?)... speaking one's 'truth' and being honest.....without Lovebusting.....

I soooo thoroughly enjoyed myself that I plan to do it again in a couple of months.

The group reminded be a bit of you guys.... only it's about applying it towards approaching life and challenges in general.

MB Board

Hey Luna,

Sounds like a really neat workshop. Too bad we don't have real spouses to communicate with

Well, at least we'll know how to make the next relationship a good one.

Hi CL,


Actually, CL...even more important than a R with a spouse (or anyone else).... is the one we have with ourselves....how WE are TAKING CARE of ourselves!

Like the cliché says :RollieEyes:....you know, the one about the oxygen mask on the airplane, gotta have some yourself first, before offering to help anyone else!

....or as we say around here, the foundation for a successful M recovery, or a healthy new R, is.....ding ding ding...PERSONAL recovery!

....and like another cliché says: easier SAID than DONE! :crosseyedcrazy:

WS and I communicate by email re finances and kids.

In his last exchange, regardless of the content of the added comment, what I did SEE...is an ANGRY person behind it.... and behind that, a person HURTING and in PAIN...

...and this does make me wonder if it would be so were WS a HAPPY man in laland?

...I am surprised that it did not TRIGGER me as much as I thought it would... and I am even more surprised that I was able to THANK him for the information he provided about DS12 (before, I probably could not have gotten past the form)....

...I am also glad that WS is NOT part of my daily life...and that the PlanB conditions are in place to protect me from WS's anger and choices/non-choices....

...and I wonder if I am...DETACHING MORE...or....if my LOVEBANK is being drained some MORE?

When I first came to MB, I recall WAT telling me to prepare myself of a long loooong road ahead.... it's only NOW that I think I KNOW what he meant!
:RollieEyes:

...and yeah...sometimes....that makes me REALLY tired.... and NOW I know...that if I am tired, I need to REST.... and to trust that sometimes the answer is THAT simple...LOL!

I am here for some processing.

It was Rivertam's update post that got me thinking when she brought up her Plan D, and how important it was for her that heart and mind be in sync about it, and that she could honestly say she tried 'everything', which then helped her 'not look back'.

Seeing that I am on that path, this forced me to ask whether that was my case.

Seeing that it has taken me awhile just to get over the 'shock' and in so doing, given WS quite some time with OP since my PLB to evaluate if laland is really what he expected it to be, it seemed important to me to confirm two things, and to avoid just 'going with the flow'.

1) it is important for me to make the effort to be honest and communicate to WS that even NOW I am still open to consider M recovery (...and yes, this requires swallowing some pride and be open to rejection)...and in so doing, make sure that WS does not use as an excuse - ME, too much time has passed, the 'door' is no longer open, fear of rejection - and confirm his CHOICE to still not want to make the effort to committment to his family.

2) I also wanted to put a 'positive' spin to the PLB terms, and purposely leave it 'open-ended'.

...currently, DS17, since last year no longer travels 'back and forth' and is pretty well out of WS's life, DS12 still does so, but the challenge since he started high school of going back and forth is even more evident now. DS17 has also decided to join a team and start playing hockey again (something that WS was into with him), and already WS is missing out because DS17 asked me to pick up 'stuff' to get ready for it, drive him to practices, etc. as WS seemed to have other 'committments', but I KNOW it's something he would have LOVED to participate in (or used to ).

So this is the question I put out there to WS, introducing it with.....he did not even have to provide an answer if he did not want to....(because, bottom line, it was ME that needed to ASK it!)

Question:

«Do you sometimes think or consider wanting to try again to face life's challenges together with me, rather than doing so... separately?

...because I still do.»

NOW...

WS can CHOOSE to be non-committal about it and NOT answer, as he has a right to

or..make it perfectly clear, in that he CHOOSES and CONFIRMS that he still maintains OP to be his 'soulmate' (and so maybe she is, after so long!...or he's too proud to admit otherwise)

...either way, I think it will help me to put away the DOUBT that I did not communicate clearly to WS that I was prepared to committ to making it SAFE for him to reconsider his choices.....

...because I do think one of the obstacles for WS...is his pride, fear of rejection, fear of punishment....

...and for ME, my attempt to reassure him otherwise, will allow me to be more at 'peace' with myself, and KNOW that I really left 'no stone unturned', and help me to 'unwillingly' but surely continue to walk the path of Plan D...