Thanks - I know I need to be strong in this PB and it's so hard when your children do not understand why daddy always come and go. I tried gently break the news to the girls and my oldest daughter would cover her ears and refused to hear what I have to say about daddy. She would break out in tears and it breaks my heart. She sometime gets angry at me for even mentioning it.

My family and his family have told me not to say anything to the children because I was not the one who went an have an A. He should be the one but he hasn't had the heart to look at them in the eyes.

I know it's not the environment I want them to be in and I'm part to blame because I let my H walked all over me.

So I don't need to add anything to the PBL when I send it to the OW?

VL, I would make a copy for the HO and write on it:

Sallyslut, I love WS with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make him happy. I will wait for him to give me that chance. pg 81, SAA [with a few minor changes added by me ]

And Dr Harley would tell you that you need to tell your children. They will become very confused if you don't give them the facts. They should know that your H is having an adulterous affair. It will be up to you to explain to them why this is immoral and give them moral guidance. If you don't do this, your H will teach them that adultery is ok and introduce them to his filthy affair. You need to protect them from this.

Thank you Melody for the info. I will probably work on what I need to say to my kids. I will try to resist calling name to the OW and I wouldn't want to teach my kids to disrespect anyone even if they did you wrong. I think we are much better person for that and have more respect for ourselves.

Ok pray for me and for my kids. I'm praying that god give me the courage to be strong throughout this PB phase. I will try very hard to stay strong for my kids.

VL22, the names are just for us here. The point that is important for your kids to understand is that adultery is WRONG and that the OW is an enemy of your family.

And yes, I will pray for you and your children. I know how devastating this is to you all. Do you have any family you can call on for support?

Yeah, he'll be mad when you change the lock. But you know what? He'll get over it!!

Don't worry about him being angry about what you do to protect yourself. Consequences of adultery, my friend.

Charlotte

I love Larry's revisions!

Mel is an expert. Everything she said.

And your daughters may not want to hear this, but... especially with what you say about your H wanting to always be in control, and how your letter started out... I think you are learning to be strong in ways you haven't been before. I think you are learning what it means to be a strong woman, and you will be teaching your daughters that. Your daughters need to see that it is OK to face facts of life, to face squarely what life hands them without covering their ears, and that YOU and THEY will be OK.

You need to expect to be treated with RESPECT. How we expect to be treated is how we teach others to treat us. If you expect to be treated with respect, you won't hang around while being treated with disrespect. And you will teach your daughters that they deserve to be treated with respect, also.

Please, it is very important to let your daughters know that you and they are strong enough to face whatever life hands you. Please don't teach them that covering their ears and hiding is a good way to cope. Determine today that you are raising strong, respectable women!

Hello everyone again - I tried breaking it to my girls earlier after reading your post and I just don't know what else to do. I think i will need to find a good therapist to help my oldest daughter how to cope with it. She refused to hear what I have to tell her and starting sobbing hysterically.

She kept repeating "mommy don't say anything about daddy. I'm already sad about him - so please stop mommy." I tried to hold my tears as I was telling her that but I couldn't help it neither - I started crying with her and held her so tight that I wished so much that no one should ever go through with this. The pain is just unimaginable. THe pain that they feel about their daddy and he just doesn't seem to care. And I'm in tears at this moment while typing this.

How can my H seem to become such a cold-hearted person? What happen to him? He's not the same man I once knew and fell in love with.

How can I be strong for them when I can even be strong for myself? I am a total wreck at this moment.

My heart goes out to you and your kids. This is the price that the innocent pay so those who would allow their weaknesses to plunge into adultery and betrayal can be "Happy.".

Larry

Thanks Larry for helping with the revision PBL. I wanted to know what y'all think about adding this message onto the PBL to the OW when I send it in addition to the PBL to my H.

To You XXXX - I know my husband doesn't love you - I wouldn't have fought so hard for my marriage if he did. I feel sad for you to go through length to ruin my marriage and my family. He said you mean nothing to him. It's so classy of you to slip your panty under his T-shirts when he moved back home.

You will never be a mother to our kids - nor will he ever considering marrying you in the future! We have a history together and you will never be able to comprehend the bond that my husband and I have together. I will wait for my husband to return.

Any feedback or suggestions is greatly appreciated before I send this out.

I don't think that's a good idea.

It won't do anything other than give her ammo to use against you.

Charlotte

Okkkk Charlotte - I know but I am soooo angry with this OW. She's so manipulative - brings out the worst side of my H. Maybe what comes around goes around eventually for her. She broke up my marriage, my children, and my family.

I know I shouldn't do anything that will bring regrets for me and for my children. I'm going to send PBL. Since he's living with the OW - any suggestions as to how I can send this letter to her?

I have her address and also her private email account but I was afraid of sending it to her email and it may go into her spam folder.

I don't want my H to throw out the letter when I send it her home address. Any suggestions????

Hey VL,

I know how you feel. But you'll feel SO MUCH BETTER later when you think back to when you didn't send her any extra venom, because you took the high road.

She's expecting venom from you and she'll get a charge out of it. Like an energy vampire. Don't give her any!!

You should send it Certified Mail with the little box checked "for addressee only." That way only SHE can sign for it.

Have a good day,

Charlotte

Hi there! I took your advice and call Dr. Harley - I did everything he mentioned. I did not go into Plan B after talking to him. He recommended that I drive and park at her house so my H can see me when he leaves for work. He saw me and drove away. I didn't confront the OW - there's no need to. I just needed my H to know that I know that he's been lying to me and I know his things are at her place.

He apologized and asked me what he can do to make it up. I am a little stronger now and told him - do what you need to do - I am done - I am tired physically, mentally and emotionally. I said to him "I know" everything - we don't have to pretend anymore. I told him there must be NC with the OW anymore and take the rest of your things back from her place. He did today but I'm still scare, I have a hard time believing in him. I realized it takes some time to recover but it's very hard - TRUST is hard to earn once is broken.

I was about to go dark and follow the planB. I have the letter ready and everything. But he is home now and we need to work on our marriage but it's hard - I'm not sure where to begin.

He didn't talk much to me today after he got home from work except what I did today - I noticed his things are still in his car and he hasn't unpack anything. So I'm just curious why he didn't unpack his things in his car.

So is anyone having any suggestions for recovery - I realized it will be a long road ahead.

Excellent on calling the Harleys and doing what he said! I'm so glad you got the expert opinion, and it got your H back home.

Keep doing what he said. Are you going to continue to call?

As long as this doesn't disagree with the other advice, I suggest you go back to Plan A, sicne you never really got a chance to "finish" it. Eliminate ALL LBs. Meet as many ENs as you can. But don't grovel or be a doormat - you deserve respect, from him and from yourself. Respect yourself, be true to yourself, take care of yourself physically and emotionally. Know that if he doesn't "come around" that you will be just fine, knowing that you did your part to fight for the M and to be honorable.

Then, if you can't take Plan A any longer, go to Plan B - but NOT BEFORE A WELL-THOUGHT-OUT PLAN. Make the last interaction with him memorable - in a good way, not in an AO way! Have your PBL ready (which you do). But don't give it to him until you are for sure going into Plan B - which is risky, ya know. Don't just do it on a whim. And don't go back and forth. Once you go into PB, do it for real and go dark.

But maybe that won't be necessary. You've called the Harleys, and that got your H back home again, which will make your Plan A much more effective.

ETA: Beware of false recoveries. A lot of times it takes one or two false starts before one "sticks".

Also, is he willing to send a NC letter? That's important. There must be NO more contact with OW.

You should also verify that. By snooping. Hopefully you haven't told WH about this forum, you need to be able to get support here and suggestions, without him seeing. You need to snoop, and that does little good if he reads about how yer gonna snoop.

Thank you so much! I will call Dr. Harley again because we still need so much help.

He almost took everything home - I know there are things still at her house. You lived long enough with your H - you do his laundry - you know what is here and what's missing - know what I mean.

I didn't realize how bad this Withdrawal stage can be - It has only been 4 days. He's moping around - doesn't say much to me. Although he interacts with our daughters just fine. Asked if he wanted anything to eat - answered "No". Tried to meet his EN - but wouldn't give me a light of day. Although he apologized but he has not admit to anything that he did was wrong. Is this normal behavior during the Withdrawal Stage?

It's frustrating at times because he just doesn't recognize that I am here - I'm not invisible - I'm a person with feelings.

How long does this usually last? Has anyone here gone though this phase? I would love any suggestions you may have and what I can do in the meantime not to drive myself crazy.

Hello VL22,

I don't post much as I don't think I know enough to give anyone any advice but I just wanted to say that I am there with you as my WH has just returned from living with OW for a year.

It's hard isn't it!! But I'm sure that whatever the outcome we can all come through this as better people.

I haven't read all your thread yet and have only got a minute before WH and I go out for the evening (hopefully will be able to add some deposits in WH's love bank!) but I just wanted you to know that I'm in the same sort of sitch as you!

Be strong

Tarnsy

If you want, lildoggie's thread is a good one to read. She and her WH flick are working on recovery, after he had an A, moved out, moved back, went through a false recovery, and now seems to be the real thing.

I forget how long the withdrawal lasts. You may be able to find it in one of the articles about infidelity.

Thanks I have read lildoggie's thread today. I tried to bring up the NCL but not much success as we started arguing again. He lied to me again about the NC with OW. I told him to give back her garage opener that he had but I snooped today and he hid it under his driver seat and I also found an apartment brochure near where she lives. I didn't see any application that he filled out or anything - just a brochure. I also found his checkbook with her address on it. I didn't tell him that I found those under his car seat.

So I really don't know what this all means - I asked him if he is willing to work on our marriage? We started arguing and he replied "I will be out of your way by the end of this week and why do you think I haven't taken my stuffs in. I don't want to leave because it will break our daughters' heart blah, blah blah. I want to stay but I'm not happy - it seemed that every time I tried - it's never good enough."

I know you told me about false recovery and there will be some during this withdrawal stage. So I'm not sure if he's bluffing on me - he stills denied that he was living with this OW even though he knew I saw him leaving her house.

I think I'm going crazy and Dr. Harley assured me that I wasn't but I do at times and I just want to scream, hit him on the head so that he can wake up or something.

I am tempted to go to Plan B and honestly I am very afraid to go to Plan B because he just came home after 6 months being away from me and from our daughters. I didn't even get a chance to work on Plan A. Is is possible for Plan B under bitter term?

Anybody???? let me know that I'm not crazy here.

Dr. Harley's the best one to answer. When can you talk to him next?

In the meantime, make SURE that you commit NO LBs at all. With your H back in the house, you've got the best chance ever to do a great Plan A. Do a perfect Plan A. Make sure it's perfect, before going to Plan B. You want to leave him with the best possible image of how good things could be, if he stayed to work on the M.

What LBs do you think you commit, and what is your plan to stop? What are his most important ENs? Will he let you meet them? What ENs do you think OW was meeting? (Admiration is often a good bet.) How can you step up the effort to meet those in particular?

Good for you for checking around to see what you could find. It's better to know what you're dealing with. He almost certainly is still in contact. Good for you for not letting him know what you found, also.

What do you think he meant by he'll be out of your way by the end of the week? Is this something y'all have discussed? Is the plan for him to move out, or is this a new thing that he's threatening? You don't want him to move out, not until you're ready for PB, if you can help it. It's harder to Plan A when he isn't living with you.

Oh, I almost forgot... NO MORE RELATIONSHIP TALK!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got it? NO. That's a LB for sure. Unless he brings it up.

This part in particular:

When you bring up relationship talk, he hears "I want you to change, to do such-and-such, you should do this and that, I want, I need, I demand, you should, you must..." That is most definitely not pleasant. You want to show him how pleasant things can be with you! And you want to change *yourself*, not to be trying to change him.

Work on changing yourself. Do it for yourself, because that's the person you want to be, whether he stays with you or not. That way the changes are for real and for keeps. But you might as well let him see the changes, so as long as you're gonna work to become this awesome person, you might as well do it while he's around to see it.

Don't *tell* him you want to make changes, just do it. No more relationship talk. Got it? Just do it.

*hugs* Hang in there, this ain't easy.

I forget, have you considered going on ADs? Dr. Harley recommends it, cus this is so hard emotionally. You're basically doing all the work to save the M, even though it was WH who cheated. You're trying to meet all his ENs even though he isn't meeting yours. Things can't go on like that for long. But stay in Plan A, don't fall out and have an AO or something, until you're ready to implement Plan B. Then do it in a planned manner (not in an AO!), with an awesome last memorable Plan A evening, and then give him the PBL.

VL22,

IMO you need to be doing a bang up Plan A right now. Read up on plan A, love busters and withdrawal everyday. Leave your self notes to remind you what your task is.

Right now, your task is to show your WH that marriage to you will not be a living hell. He is up to his eye balls in addiction right now.

Look at it from his point of view - put on your barf protection gear:
On one hand he has OW, she is warm and fuzzy and just makes him feel soooo good. She never makes him take out the trash, she just lays there all pretty and her only purpose is to make him feel good.

And then there is the wifey, she nags and cries and tries to take his warm fuzzy lovey away. If he doesn't do what wifey says, she is going to take half his money and his kids. Mean ole wifey, she is so pathetic

OK, get it, this is where he is.

Your job is to show him that you can be what he wants, your family can be what he wants. Be cheerful and motivated. Take the kids out for activities and cheerfully invite him.

NO RELATIONSHIP TALK!! He doesn't want the marriage right now, he is just trying to get you to calm down so you will stop trying to fix the marriage.

He will stay in contact with OW so keep snooping. Get your planB ready wih your letter and your legal advice. Plan A your a$$ off for the next couple of weeks. Then, if contact continues, then planB-totally dark.

Right now, you have to make yourself look like an appealing option. IMO, he only came home because he knows he is up a creek since you saw him at OW's. He is just trying to pacify you and then he will start slinking back around with OW.

You have done all the exposure right?
Have you talked to an attorney about legal protection?
Do you know where you will be finacially if he leaves again?

Plan A with an active wayward has got to be one of the most difficult things to do. Make it good, but put a time limit on it. No one can put up with that abuse forever.

Do you have a good grasp of plan A?

Remember, NO RELATIONSHIP TALK, not yet.

JMO