Update: I may have made a mistake?

I called my WW spouse tonight after not talking to her in nearly a month. Like usual she didn't answer so I left a voice mail. She text back to call her as my cell it is long distance for her. I was at home and when I didn't call her right back she called the house(not long distance). I really didn't expect her to call!

I was nice on the phone, asked her what she has been up to the last month, she said not much. I said that I haven't heard from her in awhile and was wondering if we could get together for coffee or go to the park for a walk. She didn't answer.
Then I started breaking the Plan A rules a bit. I said that I'm unsure where we stand right now and that before when she was just staying at her parents and getting ready to move out to her apartment that we would text, talk, and email quite often and even got together once in awhile but now you haven't done any of that for nearly a month. All I have to go on is what other people say to me and I don't know what's truth or not... my friends told me about removing "Married" from Facebook, that a couple of them know where OM lives and they have driven by and seen your car there, they've seen you online on Facebook in the early hours of the day and I didn't see a computer at your apartment. She told me again that her friend does have a laptop there that she uses. I said ok.
I said I want to us to be truthful to eachother, just like we had always been before all this started. I made some appologies for not being a good shoulder to cry on for her in the past, and didn't meet ENS but want her to know now I can be that person and when we is ready to talk I will be here and you know where to find me.
After asking her to be truthful with me and that I won't push for answers unless she would like to tell me she told me that she was going to talk to a lawyer. Just made the call today. I said so does that mean I need to get a lawyer? She kinda got mad and said I thought you already had one! I played dumb, she told me her sisters told her. EXPOSURE. She said don't tell my parents, her Dad is already stressing out badly, I told her I won't, but she doesn't know I tried and that they wouldn't give me the time of day.
I told her that I hope she understands why I did it, not to hurt anyone but I'm trying to save my marriage. She wasn't upset and didn't say anything. Just said that she's not doing "this" (the moving out and PA) to hurt anyone....
The only answer I got from her about where we stand without pushing is "I don't know what to tell you." "I am going to talk to the lawyer".
I said ok and didn't push. She was upset, not crying or anything though, pretty much the whole conversation.
At the end I again said thanks for talking to me about some details but I'd still like to go out for coffee or to the park just for fun, no relationship talk would you like to? Dead silence. Finally she said, "I'm getting off" I said "ok, well you know how to get ahold of me if you'd like to talk or anything. Have a good night." .....She just hung up.


Sorry its long...just wanted the details in there....and I feel better that I wrote it.

I said I want to us to be truthful to eachother, just like we had always been before all this started...
She said don't tell my parents, her Dad is already stressing out badly, I told her I won't, but she doesn't know I tried...

There are lies of omission, too, you know.

I understand that the only way you have of communicating with her is via emails. What I'm trying to say is that so far I have seen your plan A consist of:
Buying a bedspread
Taking a picture of the cats
Writing some emails about being busy and having a life

I don't see you addressing any of the things that she said made her unhappy. If I'm wrong, by all means set me straight. I would love to be wrong about this.

Oh, remember - you do Plan A for YOU, not for her.

When you do the yardwork, you're not making the yard nice so maybe she'll notice and come home. You're doing the yardwork because you want to be a more attractive husband to her (or someone else in the future).

When you clean up the clutter in the basement, you're not doing it because a clean basement will win your wife back. You're doing it so that you can learn to live a non-cluttered lifestyle.

Turtlehead, last night before I spoke to WW I was working on those things we talked about doing. I took 1 load of clutter to the dump from the garage and basement and then loaded the trailer again with another load from the basement. I spent a bit of time and cleaned up part of the yard aswell. I have plans this weekend to have a friend of mine to come over and help clean up rest of the yard. So yes, I'm working on those things....

I should say about the above is that she said don't tell her parents. I said I won't now, as of our conversation. I understand about her Dad being very stressed. That is the truth. I'm not hiding the fact that I did try to contact them,she didn't ask if I had tried. I was not omitting anything, if she would've asked if I had tried I would've said yes.



See the post above, yes I'm making progress on the things that made her unhappy.

Oh, boy, sounds like my 1st WW. What sort of relationship did she have with her mother? Was she living at home until she married you?

For my 1st WW, as explained to me by my then IC, went through a delayed adolescent rebellion stage. She grew up under a domineering mother, had to stay at home to commute to a 2-yr tech college, and still had to stay at home after graduating and entering the work force. She basically married me to get out of the house. But she subsequently behaved like a good girl, dutiful wife and mother, until she turned 28, when all of a sudden she became a party girl, took up smoking, wearing wild clothes, etc. Apparently, according to IC, she never went through the typical teenage rebellious phase at around 16, when most teens start to spread their wings and find their individuality. She never did that, not until she turned 28, and then I became the parent/authority figure against whom she rebelled. Part of her rebellion was having an A with a guy of less than commendable character.

But, all is not necessarily lost. When teens rebel, they eventually get through the stage, and, once they find themselves, or whatever, reconnect with their parents. Your WW likewise could return to you once she finds her adult self.

But, such was not my case. I decided I wasn't waiting around, and divorced her. She later married her OM, who subsequently ran off with a younger chick, in the process draining most of xW savings account. I think she realized she made a mistake. Karma.

Galoot,

Counsellor told me WW actions are exactly this, her sister, when I exposed, asked me the same thing, maybe this is her finding herself late in life.

Both WW and I lived at home until we moved out together into a rental house and have lived together since. Her relationship with her parents is good but she still feels like a child to them in her mind. She has actually said this to me like when she first moved out of our house and was staying with her parents for a 1.5 months she commented that she feels like she needs to tell her parents what time she was coming home etc. and didn't like it. Maybe this has to do with the fact that she won't talk about her problems with them or her sisters....when I exposed to the sisters they said she didn't even mention what was going on in our relationship, stayed quiet on the topic.

In thinking now I was like an authority figure to her. I made all the big decisions, she followed me. She has been dependent on me for pretty much everything. I always loved her innocence.

When talking to her it seems like she still wants to be with me but is doing this for herself, being selfish, finding herself, and will not get out of that mindset until she is ready. I get the sense that she doesn't want a divorce and like mentioned before counsellors/friends/family have said it seem like she wants you to wait for her..

Does this info change anyones opinion of how I should be approaching her? I'm scaring myself because I'm starting to feel like I don't care so much now. I'm not as upset, BUT I still love her dearly and think about her all the time....

to the top.....

Just an update.
Had a productive weekend both for myself and hopefully towards my marriage.

-I went to the closeset book store to pick up HNHNs, and Surviving an Affair but they had no stock. I ordered them online and should have them mid-week.
-I finished cleaning most of the yard. (just a load that needs to go to the dump)
-Basement is cleaned of all the crap so now it just needs a bit of organization. ( 2 trailer loads to the dump!)
-Cleaned out the bathroom full of tools (the one 1/2 reno'd) and worked on a plan to completion in my head. I now have a direction and will get started this next weekend.
-Buying new blinds for all three bedrooms today and have the paint ready but this should wait until the bathroom is done.
-The car I was working on is ready for the road, will be getting insured on Fri.

I'm doing well compared to how I was feeling even just a few weeks ago. I was a basket case the last couple of months. MY WORLD CRASHED AROUND ME.
Thanks for your support. I feel stronger..

That is some great stuff you've done!
Be sure to email your WW and let her know the basement is cleared out and how good you feel seeing it all cleaned up.

Make sure she knows everything you're accomplishing, but spread it out a bit instead of one huge monster email or phone call.

I'm scaring myself because I'm starting to feel like I don't care so much now.
Plan B is for when you begin losing your love for your WW. It's to protect what love you do have. I'm not saying it is or isn't time for Plan B, but I do think you should at least draft a letter and have it waiting in the wings.

WOW what a weekend you had. I need one of those at my place...

I would think that telling her would appear needy as in getting validation. Rather, let her find out through the back door. Eg by a friend or relative that came to visit.

Surprise her by showing that she has underestimated you.

Use "Art of War" techniques - see thread by Pepperband.

First off thanks for the complement about my work this weekend. I feel really good about it and it's getting my drive back.
Second off, for the above, I just can't clarify my feelings/emotions right now.
I don't think I was right to say that I'm feeling like I don't care anymore. I do care, I do love her. I feel like I'm in an unusual place, sometimes not missing her, that I can make it on my own, then I get very emotional for a bit of the day and realize what I have lost. There has been no major problems in our relationship ever over these 8.5 yrs and deep down I've always been happy with her. Yes there have been times I've questioned our relationship too but never to this level.
I'm not feeling as lost, depressed, confused as I did. I do miss her every day, and think about her daily. I pray for her aswell. For God to be with her and protect her through this time.
I almost feel that I just want to spend quality time with her and put all this crap to the side and enjoy positive things in our lives. I want to share with her openly, tell her that I am willing to forgive her in time if she asks for it. This is an experience for us to both grow from. We have been shown our imaturity about relationships in a very bright light. We both need to do some growing up relationship wise and for our selves.
I'm not wanting to go to plan B but I'm not getting very far with plan A, in regards to my WW recognizing my changes, though it does make me feel good doing it. Looks like we may be getting the separation in place by end of the month or early next month since she found out I was thinking of getting the papers drawn up and finally got a lawyer. I think I need to stay in plan B through this so we can communicate???

Well Imagine, there are no plans for any of her relatives to come over. As mentioned before none of them want to deal/ get involved so they have stayed away from contacting me. Our mutual friends have kinda divided themselves btwn us. Some hang with me while others hang with her. No one has contact btwn both of us that would share this information.

WW will not give me a response when I ask her to meet with me for coffee etc. This means she will NOT come to the house. Our house is 20 min outside of the city and she is living in the city. She has no reason to drive out to see me....

Your right it could look like I'm looking for validation. Depends on how I word it....but that's all I have is emails and she admitted to reading them and responding once or twice and is keeping them (though she doesn't know I know this).

I think my biggest fear right now is NOT KNOWING. And with not knowing it leaves me with a bit of hope. Not knowing why my WW feels that she needs to leave me. Why she decided to have a PA. Why she decided to wait 7yrs until I proposed to her and a 1.5 later says she's unhappy for a long time and leaves. She has never told me what I did wrong. I have no closure.

Just an update for those interested.
My wife is going to a lawyer tomorrow. I'm so scared that this is it. I'm very sad that this is happening and she has made no effort to even give our marriage one last try. As far as I know she is still with OM but still hasn't really started to open up about that relationship to anyone of course. I hear that she has told a few people that she says she's much happier as a person now that she left me. She says things have been a little crazy but it's getting better. She says she doesn't know what to say when people have asked her whats going on but she is doing ok on her end.

Her words in an email in reply to mine that I sent her:

"The test went fine(entering test for her to go to collage). I don't think I failed. I won't have the results for another few weeks though. Tell (my friend) and (wife) congratulations on their baby for me. That's exciting.
Just so you know, I have an appointment on Tues to see a lawyer. I don't know what will happen with that.
I'd like to ask you to please have my credit card cancelled (joint account, me being primary card holder) and have my name at least removed from your bank account(this is our joint account with our mortgage). I don't see a point in having my name on them since I don't use them."

I'm having WW's friend over tonight to talk with me. This is the one who has been out of town for the last 2 months and hasn't really talked to WW about anything. Her and I have been in contact quite a bit. She knows both my WW and the OM since highschool. She knows WW better than a lot of others...so what should I talk to her about?

Contacting a lawyer doesn't have to translate into divorce. Things can always change.

The reason she feels happier now is she has no baggage with OM. Yet. Give it time.

Be careful about connecting with this friend; don't cry on her shoulder, that can lead to things you don't want. I would just tell her how you feel, how you've changed, what you're doing to make yourself a better catch for W, and ask for her support in getting your W to keep an open mind. Hopefully, she'll pass it on to W.

Here's another piece of the puzzle....I found out from this same BF of WW that the OM is NOT divorced as I once believed and everyone had told me!!!
He is separated from his wife for the last 2 yrs and he is scared to finalize is divorce with W because he doesn't want to loose custody(I'm thinking there is nothing legal right now) of his two kids or loose his house. Sounds like his W wants a payout on the house.
WW's BF has also said that OM is very much like my WW in character.

Catperson: Looks like your right that there will be baggage to come if OM has to start dealing with his divorce! I doubt my WW will want to deal with all that and OM won't be able to meet alot of WW ENs while he's going through divorce!

AWH,

I've been on your other thread. The greatest freedom you can experience in this situation is the realization that you're going to be just fine if you do divorce. You will.

Yes, 8.5 years is a while. But trust me, the sooner you go dark the better.

I have a very good friend (one I'm interested in). She was with a guy 10 years. Lived with him a good chunk of it. She married him and he cheated on her and left her.

She's still recovering, but she'd doing well. She's dated some since and has seen how well she could have it with someone else and how poorly the exh treated her. She had little to compare it to up to this point.

The improvements you need to make are to you. Work on you and the rest will take care of itself.

You're in the initial stages of this. You're constantly thinking about your ex and what she's doing and what she may be thinking and if there is any chance in heck she'll come back.

You're being held prisoner by your own thoughts. It's a process.

But you'll be ok.

The biggest wakeup to her will be when you finally start to move on with your life. Letting her go will be the greatest gift you give yourself.

She'll off having the time of her life in fantasyland with a man who is still married. She hasn't had to deal with the reality of children and the stress he will go through with a divorce and a custody fight.

Your story reminds me of other posters I've seen here.

You will not move forward unless you can let the past go. You're shackled to the past. You keep thinking: X amount of years ago it was great. Our relationship was great. Things were so good.

The past is irrelevant. She didn't perceive things that way and she cheated.

You can keep your life on hold and wait for her to come to her senses or you can accept that she's gone and put your own life back together and realize and accept that you can do better.

You don't want your WW to come back. You want your wife to return, but you want her new and improved.

Thanks pomdbd3,

So maybe I'm looking to far forward as my WW isn't going to lawyer until tomorrow and I don't know how long it will take her to contact me afterwards....

BUT....I'd like to plan for the next month or so. Our 2yr wedding anniversary is the first week in Oct.

I feel that maybe I should be "business like" towards the sep papers and push her a bit to get them in order. Make sure I give her all the info with no emotion. I "ASSUME" that her sisters told her that I was wanting to start the sep papers soon so that I can move forward with the renovations in the house (because the appraisal needs to be drawn in BUT I TOLD THEM THAT IT WASN"T BECAUSE I WANTED TO END MY MARRIAGE, that I need to protect myself financially. So I hope my WW will have that in the back of her mind.
Should I plan A her, the little I can do becuase this will be my last chance to see her face to face a couple times while we deal with the paperwork and then by the end of Sept. go Plan B since it will be very hard to deal with our anniversary or should I wait until after???? May our anniversary mean anything to her at this point. Would it allow her to reflect?????

The way to get to her is to pretend that you are moving on, are cheerful, and have other things you'd rather be doing. A WW wants you to hang on to her memory while she goes and plays.

Seriously, AWH, these are supposed to be your honeymoon years.

What's happened to you is very common. Something in her mind made her think that saying "I do" would make her feel differently about her relationship with you. She bailed as soon as she could.

You are young. Life isn't over. There are many women out there and there are many VERY good women.

You have every right to be mad right now and I encourage you to act as if all is great in the world and that you need to get the heck out of there when you see her because you have something you got to go to. Dress to the nines as if you have a date (even though you don't).

Wear cologne. Look attractive but do it because it looks like you have life outside of sitting at home and mourning her loss.

I bet you a million bucks that you'll start to move on with your life and will start letting go of her and she'll test the waters in some way.

You should Plan B, in my opinion, but talk to the Hareleys.

Remember! Look attractive. Don't look down. Don't even think of saying, "Happy Anniversary" because it isn't.

You'll say that, think you're pathetic, and then go and have SF with OM.

Harsh truth but that's reality. So think of that before every letting the words "Happy Anniversary" come out of your mouth. She'll be celebrating it with OM.

She says it to you then you respond with a nod as if to say, "Great. Now lets get this business done."