Hmmm. Why is it ok for you to go and she cant?

See answer above.

I kinda figured it wouldn't be a popular answer.

Using phrases like "glued to your spouses hip" when discussing POJA and independent behavior is NOT going to make your marriage better. Just so you know.

Yes, I have, and of course working isn't a lovebuster, but it is done independently without your spouses involvement. And I understand that going to bars can be a lovebuster for some. You also mentioned that you have girlfriends, and I agree that that is fine.

If my wife is going to happy hour with coworkers occassionally, I don't feel like she is withdrawing from my love bank. If she is socializing with guys, more then acquantances, I do. If the happy hour was mostly guys, I would feel the withdraw. If she went without telling me, again, LB. If she went instead of spending time with me when I needed it, or more time often then time with me, LB. If I was not allowed to go when there is mixed company...definite LB.

I have looked over pretty much all the material here, and am currently reading love busters, on the DJ chapter. Perhaps I'll change my mind after reading independent behavior.

I can certain understand why a BS would not want a (F)WS to go to any bar for any reason without them. However, in a normal healthy M, that would be completely impossible around here. First of all, there's different kinds of bars and many reasons to go to them.

Sports Bars: Guys hang out to watch the game. I sure don't want to be there, unless it's the Olympics. Please, go without me.

Pub Style Bar: Generally where you might take the employee out for their last day. It's standard practice here to do for the students at the end of summer. In fact, we're going tomorrow. I doubt a single spouse will show up and most people here are married. Even in pre-infidelity days, WstbxH wouldn't think of coming - he has his own work and would never have met the students unless there was another event the same semester where families and spouses were invited to. Even then he wouldn't remember them and would care.

Pub Style Bar: With same sex friends. Done this a few times generally when a friend is here from out of town on business. I work an hour away from home but near the airport so I've met them on occassion after work. This would have to be negotiated of course, but with non-adulterous spouse, it shouldn't be an issue.

Pub Style Bar: Alone. Nope - unless extenuating circumstances. I did sit at a pub in an airport once when my connecting flight was delayed because it was the only place you could smoke.

Night Club: Never - unless you are together. Possible exception could be a bachelor party of a close relative but that would be in a non-adulterous M only (no way I'd let a WS or FWS) do that.

I don't believe any of the above (except the night club) are independent behavior either. The sports bar maybe, but if it was POJA'd already how is it any different than a golf game or playing in a hockey league? Except for the excersise.

Excellent post Tabby!

So your FWW can go to a Sports Bar?

Iam

You shouldn't have it taken away. So if a wife with no history of adultry wanted to go out, ON OCCASION, to a bar to eat and have a good time WITH FRIENDS, she should have that right also.

Now all this is null and void if he or she has abused the trust.

The original question, I thought, did NOT say "unfaithful".

Yeah Tabby

Great post. Some bars EXSIST for sexual encounters. They are designed that way, they ADVERTISE that way, and function that way.

And some bars are just...........places to drink, USUALLY attached to a restaurant.

Now adultery can occur anywhere, anyplace. But, I agree with posters here that some places are more condusive. A pickup bar is ALWAYS off limits. CHili's, not so much.

and these are the places my ex would go to...and before long (and sometimes before dinner) she would be blowing him in the parking lot. All bars are the same...they all serve alcohol and that lowers judgement and inhibitions.

I DO think that FWS SHOULD be held to a different standard than non-cheaters. But, IMHO...bars are just a bad idea.

And some companies are just...........places of business, usually meant to make a profit.

Others......are breeding grounds for infidelity - literally.

Maybe you didn't read my post?

Or the first sentence of Tabby's?

No, my wife cannot without me.

dkd, this is a mistake that many people in their marriages. It isn't lack of TRUST that ruins marriages, but a LACK OF BOUNDARIES. And if your spouse does not observe appropropriate boundaries then you shouldnt trust her.

The people who are usually the most vulnerable to affairs are the who think they are immune to it because they observe sloppy boundaries. Those are the ones who usually have affairs.

But Tabby's post said that Sports Bars should be okay and you agreed with Tabby.

I'm just a little confused about your response to her reply.

I agree with you that the last place your (and my) WW should be is in any bar...just thought your reply to Tabby was a little strange.

Thoughtful post. Hard to argue.

Tabby's first sentence.

That's me to a tee.

This is a very timely subject. I wrote quite a long post on this but never posted it because I'd t/jed the "Kids" thread enough.

All my working life I've worked in places which have Friday night drinks in the office. My H was ALWAYS invited, ALWAYS. He always got to know the people I worked with and we always had a good time.

In my last job (before the one I'm in now), it was the same scenario. My H would come to drinks and we'd all have a good time. When he was laid off from his job after 23 years, he stopped coming to drinks with me. He was embarrassed by his unemployment and didn't want to talk to my/our friends at work.

I started staying at drinks on my own. My co workers were all a lot younger than me and would head off to the pub after drinks at work. I started going with them. I always stuck with a group of girlfriends but it was the start of independent behaviour and a "new" lifestyle for me. One of going out drinking at bars with music which I'd never done before.

My A wasn't work related but it was the new and different lifestyle I was leading that certainly made it possible.

After the A I stopped going out unless it was with my H or unless I met a girlfriend for lunch.

When I moved to my job at the University we didn't/don't have drinks on a Friday night very often but our "drinking place" is a beautiful old house which has been made into a bar/restaurant/community place for academic and admin staff. Leather armchairs, a lovely old wooden bar - exactly what you'd expect at a University. My H is very comfortable coming there for a drink and I always invite him.

I've since moved into another job at the university and work with 8 other middle aged women. We don't have drinks very often at all but, if we do, it's in the office boardroom and I'm home by 5.30pm at the latest.

I think going to bars without spouses/partners is a very dangerous practice.

Me too, but if you can go doesn't that open you up to do the same thing that you resent your W for?

What I mean is that if the bar is a breeding ground for affairs, then shouldn't she have the right to say to you "no, I don't think I would like you going to the bar tonight"...whether or not you are just going to hang with the guys to play pool or watch a football game...isn't it HER right to give an opinion on it too?

What is her opinion on it?

I think it's entirely possible to be the other way around.

I will never have an affair because I have good boundries. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.