JL,

I know that number of posts and even time spent here is not the determining factor as to wisdom that might be forthcoming.

I'm just going on my own experience...

As for how I am doing... Overworked, underpaid, overspent and under financed...

That about sums up my life, I think.

We had a week of vacation and both of us ended up at work early and staying late today. Tomorrow promises to be even worse.

Sorry for the tj, NowIs...

Mark

No worries at all Mark. : )

Nowis,

Feel free t send me a PM if you want to hear my thoughts on this. I am extremely happytht you guys are staying with it with all you have been through.

You screwed up, and I see you freely admit that. If your H can get past that, then he is REALLY quite a guy and the love runs deep.

I feel like I know him even though he doesn't post because we have made emany of the same mistakes.

I am still learning (not many posts here :~0) but I have learned a great deal about myself and would love to share it if it would helpout anyone else.

It is with a lot of love and care that things like this are approached. That was never lost in my marriage, and it would've ended abruptly withot it. The respect and courage of being a man will hopefully prove my worth in other areas and prove me to be the man she needs.

I only hope you can see those changs in your guy as well.

To throw it all out without what I consider a major abuse seems sill to me, but I am not her, or you, or anyone else and my perspective is completely different.

hang in there.

Thanks for taking the heat out of that JL.

Like anyone else, I can be defensive. I hummed and ahhhhed as to whether I should write everything down and truly be honest about my feelings on this site but who was I kidding. If you really want help you have to put your sad dross out there - warts and all. At least this place offers a certain amount of safety to do that in anonymity. I can then, if I am truly honest, hear what's being said and go on to change my life. It is what I am doing but the insults do hurt. Anyway enough said.

I want to ask you then - in your opinion, what have I been doing all my married life (not including the affair) if I have not been doing your list of "Most men expect....."? You said that you That stunned me. Are you talking about what was really buried in my heart and not my actions all these years? Was I that disconnected? Is it more subtle than that? I felt that sex was disconnected but as a wife I did everything else ?????? Gosh, was I thaaat bad?

You know what JL - I believed it..... I just believed it - I got it, wrapped it up and didn't question it - didn't even think differently about it. Even when it was unravelling early on I just believed that he would not and should not need me. It was weak - where did I get that message - FOO issues - my only clue. Why would I admire someone who leaves?! Why did I and still do want my father's love who left us and still doesn't want me to this day? I guess it's wrapped up in there somewhere. However, my marriage is the thing I need to save right now.

Yes, I understand that need/survival. As for not needing balance, intimacy, unconditional love and care - no I would be insane. You know what else I realize - the bittersweet fact that were it not for my H in loving me all these years, I would NOT have survived this long. It really hurts my heart thinking about him now.

I don't want to labor over this or get stuck in the wrong place - so tell me if I'm going down a road unnecessarily.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help.

Hey PNM

I tried to send you a private message but it did not work. Are you able to use this function?

Let me know.

Thanks

Nowis,

I don't know, I went into my settings page and it says I ca receive PM's, but I know I tried to send one the other day and it didn't work for me either.

Anyway, I guess we can just talk openly here....it's not like we need to be modest around here!

LOL..... you know it!

Perhaps you are the best one to answer that as you were there. It is really hard to get the whole picture from the posts. You came here looking for help. You got help. You have been changing. You are willing to continue to change. You are remorseful. (Good sign). Your husband is getting happier with the increased attention in the SF department (Good job, don't stop it is important to him)

This is not an insignificant issue. I think this is why early on some of the posters were raising the issue of family of origin. One of the articles I have read recently is there is a tendency for some people not to respect the one that shows them love if it seems too easy, instead they will work hard to attain the love of the distant or difficult to impress family member. This is something that you may need to deal with down the road.


Amen sister. Good choice in the priority department.


This is the best protection you have right now. It is also a great motivator. Trust me on this one. The separation leading to divorce option is a very painful road. You are experiencing pain but it is not as much pain that lies in your other option. I want to stay with my wife but she is insisting on separation I have no choice in the matter, so you at least have a husband that is wanting to work on it with you. Appreciate this.

In regards to some of the snipers that have waded into this post just pay attention to the ones that are trying to help. You are very lucky to have JL working with you. I too have been enjoying the information he has been willing to provide.

Hang in there, keep up the good work, it won't be easy, but then if it was easy you wouldn't appreciate the end result as much as you will once you get there.

So don't get discouraged, keep posting and venting here, it does help doesn't it? I know how you feel as I can see very clearly what others could do, but when it comes to my own situation I am lost.

I have been encouraged to see how much progress you have made. Your gonna make this work. The only thing that can stop you now rests between your ears.

In everything give thanks.

God Bless you and your family.

Thanks for your viewpoint on these.

It really helps for me to be able to see things from my H's perspective. How he may have been thinking in the past and now on some of his behaviors. There's always adjustment in marriage due to changes of varying kinds. It just takes work to make those changes for the better.

He has changed on some things. For example, with the children. He used to leave a lot of activities and occupying to me and this caused me to feel like I was doing it all by myself. He now works at engaging them, figuring out stuff to do with them without leaving it to me or just saying "I don't know". I understand why (his father didn't engage him - left everything to his mother. I applaud him for that change.

Folks,

I don't think PM works on this site. It was decided very early on this board that communications really should via the forum rather than privately. It does not stop private communications but it does discourage it. Harley and his children realized that many here are very vulnerable and the chances of an affair or relationship starting is greater than your average board, so PM was disabled.

JL

Nowis,

Did you notice PNM's post and answers to my points? Interesting isn't it? He felt that he failed do things that would garner positive responses and feedback from his W. There is an old saying I think this quote is germaine to what you said in a later post.

Nowis you asked
This is really for you to answer, certainly not me. I just stated some opinions based on limited knowledge. But, here is something very important for you to think about and possibly consider.

My list may not be complete, it may not coincide very well with your H's list. Why don't you ask him about what his list would be. THEN, rather than visit the past and get stuck there, go forward by discussing your plans to meet his needs, what he would like to see and what he needs to feel from you.

AND...YOU GO FURTHER, you think about what you expect from the marriage and what you need. Discuss with him these things as well. The idea is NOT to discuss the past but what you each want your future to be.

Notice something here??? I am suggesting you talk to your H (not a surprise I and others have been saying that all along, BUT I am now suggesting that you consider your needs). Why? you are becoming capable of working this love thing two ways. You are learning to show love by giving, and you are learning to show love by receiving. You are growing more than you think. When you can show love by receiving and giving, then it is time for you to allow your H to show you his changes.

You said in your last post he is changing. He is because you are. You have that much power, and that is why you need to weild it carefully. However if you look closely he wields a lot of power as well. He is not a push over. His love is strong and it has carried you and your family through some very tough times. As you recognize his power in your life, you will start to really appreicate your own power.

Ya now Nowis I would bet good money your H would love to hear Ah, but it would help his heart to hear that you do appreciate him. This is starting to sound like love is breaking out here. Could it be??

Finally,never underestimate the power a parent has over a child. Your FOO issues are probably at play, but you can and will overcome them. It is just a matter of time. How do I know? You are working on it, that is why.

Must go it is getting late. Nowis, keep up the good work, all of us posting to you want to see you succeed and we all want to see you very happy in your life.

God Bless,

JL

bcboy,

You are offering some excellent insights to Nowis. I think site has found yet another strong and good asset.

God Bless,

JL

bcboy


Not only was that comment like a lightbulb moment but a ten ton truck. I felt EXACTLY like this and realize even more so that my H had no respect from me for the good wholesome love he showed me. My H has said a number of times over the last year that he would like more respect from me. Disrespect from the A is obvious, but I understand now the respect he is looking for. Respecting the love and care he shows to me. It is no small thing. With my perspective changing, it is opening my eyes how strong my H is!!

These revelations/understandings are coming thick and fast. I guess I was thaaat bad, huh? : ( It has taken until now.... so sad.

Yeah, the dad stuff...... not delving into that right now.

Thanks bcboy. Still working at it. Staying open to this process is raw and challenging but yours and others encouragement and wisdom is so needed.

JL

Yes, PNM's answers were very helpful to me. In fact, these are the first times that I have had male perspectives that aren't my H's or s****y OM's.

As you can see from my comments to bcboy - it took no time at all to realize how dodgy my thinking was in my marriage. I thought it was okay but it was so disconnected. I was sooooo disconnected and immature in my heart and mind.

I and my husband are talking relationship talk tomorrow night. So will bring stuff up then. I'll let you know his responses. We were also supposed to be going to a couples group that he was organizing but he seems to have written that off. Mmmm.....?

Wow, talking about what I need...... I'm going to have to get clear on that. I know he often says he doesn't know what I need. Am not so sure now myself. SF has been the HUGE area for us but I am initiating lots. It's not swinging from the chandeliers stuff but it is purposeful, deliberate, giving and connected. Am nervous that if we talk about it, bring it out into the open, we may somehow lose it, jinx it, spoil it. (just saying what I feel). Am nervous that he might want to try other stuff and I won't be ready. (just saying what I feel). On the other hand, I don't think he'll be pushy as I get the feeling he doesn't want to make the wrong move and this all disappear. As tangible as the changes are, I also realize how fragile.



After all these years..... wow. Honestly you guys, this feels good even though it's only been a short space of time. I thought I needed cocky, confident and totally ballsy but I'm finding admiration in my heart for him and it makes me smile. I keep wondering when it's going to fall apart for me. (just saying what I feel).

Thank you again JL.

Nowis,

This place is called marriagebuilders for a reason. The information here will help you BUILD a good, satisfying and long marriage.

You don't seem to realize that while there will be ups and downs, building a marriage on respect, loving communications, and openness as well as honesty, is NOT building a house of cards.

For the first time you will have a REAL marriage and relationship with your H. Will you mess up? Yes. Will he mess up? Yup. But, if you finally acknowledge that you want him to be happy and you want to be happy with him, then the both of you can find the way.

It is there, the basis for agood marriage is there right now. Don't fear your H, know that he loves you and has loved you through your affair. Know that you are coming to see him in a new light.

You said Would you settle for the male ideal of my youth? The strong, silent, honest, reliable man??? Ok, you might want to bag the silent part :), but the rest is there for you. And if you don't think your H wasn't tested by all of this, then you don't really know what "balsy" really is. It took guts and a lot of love for him to remain as he has.

As for the SF, enjoy it, make sure he knows you enjoy it with him, let him know he has free reign to be honest with you and explore things with you. But, most of all let him know you will "respect him in the morning". Sorry I could not resist that. Seriously, be honest with him, but also encouraging.

As for fear of losing it, you are still thinking that a good marriage is about "feelings" they do come and go. What your H has shown you is that you can build this marriage on something much more solid. You can build it on the very thing you both vowed to do...love. Not the feeling love, but the action love.

You both promised to LOVE one another through sickness and health, for better or worse. Love is an action. It is something you chose to do, therefore you can make a life time promise to do it. You did not promise to "feel in love", feelings come and go, but the act of loving is yours to control.

I think your H showed you this during and after your affair and in fact during other times in your marriage. he has been consistent, and he has always been there. When you see this fact, you will start to see what a strong, long term marriage is really all about.

I must go, but don't act in fear, act with love and I think you will be so surprised at how all of this turns out.

God Bless,

JL

Nowisthemoment

You are doing so well. I wanted to share something with you. I just came from a coffee with a Christian friend of mine and we were talking about marriage relationships and how marriages are coming under such strain and attack in North America.

I am writing this to myself and I am not preaching to you. I have made some HUGE mistakes, based on priorities and incorrect thinking.

We have a hole in our hearts that can be filled by only one thing. We were designed by our Creator to inherantly have a need that only He can fill. We will try to fill this hole with all kinds of distractions and temptations. I am just starting to get an appreciation for the struggle / war we are in. I have have been under the impression that I can get all my needs met by one other person (my wife). This is not only unreasonable thinking, it sets one up for failure.

I am coming to the conclusion that an individual needs to develop a close and intimate relationship with God as a first priority. I had heard all the teaching about priorities
1)God
2) Wife
3) Family
4) Job

etc.

Did I implement or do anything about it? No I did not. This is preventative medicine. This is to help us avoid problems.

Your problem is not with your husband. My problem is not with my wife. My problem is my relationship with God. I have let that deteriorate, thinking I have everything under control. This is not the case at all. I need to go to the source of love. I need to develop that relationship so that I can have a right relationship with my wife. I have let her down. My responsibility was to be the man God intended me to be, not to be the man I (in my selfishness) thought I should be. I am a product of the do your own thing generation, and I am now reaping the fruit of my decisions.

What is the answer here? The answer for me is to enter into a right relationship with my Lord and Saviour. Never mind understanding the words intellectually, but to connect my understanding to my heart. In my own strength I cannot do this. I am totally dependant on Gods grace to do this.

I have to abandon a lot of my preconcieved ideas on life. I have to embark on a journey, a new way of doing, acting, behaving, not in my own way, but in Gods way. And what will the payoff be? The payoff will be the JOY of the Lord. Once I establish this relationship, I will then be in a position to improve my relationship with my wife.

Our character is not developed in the good / easy times, our character is developed in times of trouble. You and I can get temporary relationship assistance here, and it is very good, there is a lot of wisdom here, and I am thankful for it.
The issue becomes do we stop here?
Do we resolve our human relationships, knowing that is only temporary?
Do we press on and develop the most important relationship of our lives?

I know what I have to do, it has been made clear to me now that God has my full and undivided attention, after years of neglect and lip service regarding my spiritual walk. I am not proud of how I let this deteriorate. But I am encouraged that there is hope. It is called repentance. To turn around and go the other way.

Is this what is missing in our relationships?

God Bless you and your family

JL
Coming from you I am humbled. Thank you for your kind words.

JL

How do you know all this stuff? Do you know what a lifeline this is for me?

Thanks for reassuring me that we will mess up. That feels better, lol. Just needed to hear it. No airy fairy - reality is much preferred.

Yes, he has loved me a long time. I want him to be 100% sure of me again.

SF - honest and encouraging - got it! Love -in action.



I hold onto this. I have had a lot of fear. Coming right into MB it was all about fear. If I don't get it right I will lose him forever. If I don't feel the feelings I will lose my marriage and myself. If I don't get it right, my life with him will have been in vain and I will be full of regrets and alone. A very fearful perspective (although a rather motivatingl one). However, my actions are now loving and the fear in my gut is slowly being dispelled and being replaced by real feelings of love.

Hey bc

Thank you for this.

I'm not really sure what else to say right now on what you shared.

We all need faith, hope and love. You have shared these three with me and I wish you them 10 fold in return.

Nowis