Basically, no. It was exposed on D Day to my BIL and SIL and one of our close friends. Since then one of her aunts knows and one of her cousins. That's the only family who know. My Mother and Father passed 23 and 22 years ago respectively. They would be turning in their graves for sure. Her Mother passed last year and was a factor in this sitch. There are many more people who know what's going on but not in the way of being exposed to it. She has told a number of people or they know anyway. I.E. His boss, one of the teachers, her 'friends' on the parent assoc., more of her close friends. It's like she's proud of what she's been up to, all so titillating.

I used to think if I stuck my head in the sand it would all go away. The older one is doing this and the younger one, I'm pretty sure is very oblivious as to what's going on. When we're in front of the kids, we put on a united front.

Phil,

Thank you for your patience with my reply time.

How do you know who knows what's going on? You nailed it with the new information...that you know...and that you're fighting for your marriage.

I'm going from stuff I've heard using a DVR

Do not put yourself in the position of beliving WW on somethings and not on others...again, she's been practicing self-deception for a long time...understand this and verify the truth independently. Do not rely on her saying who is doing what, knows what, 'k?

Go directly to OM's boss's boss...do a letter to the superintendent...whatever it takes to inform...and include a copy to Deputy Head and OM's boss. Respectful exposure, 'k? Means you don't assume who already knows.

You can include in the letter that you know OM's boss has aided and supported the affair. You do not say how you know, 'k? Also include OM's three previous threats of violence to you if you exposed his ongoing A and that you have filed for a restraining order. That you do not believe your children are safe at their school.

Okay to fear OM, not to react to it by not exposing. In England, you have restraining orders? Get one. Very reasonable to do and a healthy precaution.

Copy the GF with the same exposure letter...send it registered mail so she has to sign for it. In fact, do that with the Headmaster (maybe that's the title instead of superintendent?) letter as well. Worth the extra to know they were delivered.

This will take some doing, I will give it alot of thought

Good awareness on WW's mother's death as being a trigger...it is...and not for the seed you're seeing. Maybe that's more icing on the cake of resentment your WW has been baking for years, 'k? Like a final permission implied...and I don't say this to correct you, rather, to alert you that the fog is not instant...our thinking goes off the tracks and keeps going...and grieving can jump normal tracks. The actual loss, not the words shared, is what I'm emphasizng here.

Well this came up at MC, the bit about her mother etc. She was told that her marriage was between her and her mother, not me. Her mother was no.1 in her eyes, our children came 2nd, I came a very distant ?? sometimes I think even the cats came before me

Next, tell your SIL and BIL there are no sides...you're asking them to side for the marriage (not either one of you), just as you would do for their marriages (WW's brother and sister, correct?).

Keep stating truth, even when others feel sick hearing it.

From your last post, I take it she chose to continue to take the kids to school, to have contact, is that correct? Keep your promise to yourself and expose, please. Your marriage is worth it.

Yes, well we're only on Day 2 of the new school year. Youngest D will be off today with bad stomach bug which laid me low for 4 days last week. Crunch point will be when the Parents Association gets brought up. I will ask that she stops going to the school. Hope to do this at the weekend

OM would lose his job because he chose to have an A with a student's mother. Not because you exposed. Keep that straight in your mind...what he does are his choices...and what you do are yours.

I know you don't want to look into the eyes of your children five years from now and say, "I didn't fight her A because I was afraid." I KNOW that's not you.

You can move your family to end contact, too. You have choices...do not allow anyone else to take those choices in your mind...it's your mind...own it.



Think to yourself, "What would I do if I were not afraid?" Bravery is in the rearview mirror. We were all afraid, Phil. Honestly. Fear doesn't go away. We hold and do not act from it.

Share with her you know she's continuing the affair, is choosing to attack your marriage and you're going to fight for your marriage.

She will want to know how. This happens each time it comes to a head. She is very cagey as it is, I'm getting less info from the DVRs. I have no other way of knowing what's going on. Cell phone bills give little away and when I check her cell on the quiet, I'm sure she's deleting texts as she goes along

Get a bank account of your own where your direct deposit from work goes into it...then you put the amount for the bills into the joint account...and only enough for them...do up a spreadsheet and show her what you're paying for. Don't pay for everything...stop. Do a ratio between what you make and what she makes...if she makes 25% of your salary, then she pays 25% of the bills from her account.

Again, clarity not control. When you don't feel in control, take it as a signal you're dwelling where you have no control--past, future, trying to get others to do/not do--so you can refocus on where only you have control, in your choices.

And it's not a one-time refocusing...we do it repeatedly.

Are you helping out more in the domestic area since she's returned to work? Have you identified her top ENs right now? Have you identified and eliminated your LBs?

I do alot of the household stuff anyway. I'm more house proud than she is. I clean, vacuum etc. and also cook. If it is left up to her, the house becomes a mess v quickly. She does washing and ironing etc. and bathroom cleaning

Do the whole exposure at once...and include your girls, 'k? No warning...no "if you don't stop I'll" threats. Don't say how you know...state that you know. That it's harming your marriage, your family. And that you're asking for their support of your marriage--and to not support the A.

You have never and will never control her choices. What you do control is knowing them...acknowledging she chooses...and your limits...and your power--stating what you know.

Your DDs are ALREADY dealing with their mother's infidelity, believe me. You require honesty from them...hold yourself to being honest with them. State the facts--their mother chose to have an A, you've known about it and kept it from them, and she continues to have contact, which continues the A. Tell them you're standing for your marriage, your deepest desire for an intact family and that they don't have to fix anything. You're including them in what was already affecting them.

And they don't need to do anything. You'd like the opportunity to hear what they think whenever they think it; doesn't change you're a family and always will be.

They can definitely tell their mother "No" when it comes to walking them to school. Their choice.

I can't remember now in your other post...DJs are assumptions...assuming what others are thinking, feeling, how they will react or not...like OM will do this if you do that; that WW will feel this if you don't do this. These are the bits of fantasy we've taught ourselves is reality...to manuever, manage and cope. Not real.

A-busting takes clarity, reality and bringing it to yourself and WW. Not you doing something awful, Phil...just a new way to live right now...Plan A requires you to change a lot of stuff, inside and out...and you are. Awareness of DJs really helps to let go the LBs because they weren't who you really were, could not be justified.

Doing so lessens YOUR pain right now, too. Very helpful in Plan A.

About exposing and meeting ENs...your acts of love are yours...exposure is from love of your marriage...staying calm, listening and repeating, even when WW is really upset about her choice to have an A is known by others (and others know), and that you're not going to be an accomplice anymore in covering for them. You disrespected her by doing so...fearing her anger more than the loss of your marriage. We do that...did that...and when we stop, we live, anyway, 'k?

Spend more time with your girls during this time...(meets the EN for FC, too)...be very present...if your WW feels hate right now, she feels it

W has a meeting on Saturday afternoon (another assoc not school. But her friend with the 'secret cell' will be there) so I will take Ds to my gym to use the pool. WW doesn't feel hate at the moment AFAIK?

...your acts of love feed your own love bank when her A is ripping out handfuls, 'k? You want your marriage--you want to recover and build a new marriage--you can do that.

Your choice.

LA

I hate to be the bearer of more bad news but if SHE has told a number of people, you can bet your life they have NOT got the truth. I guarantee her version if full of crap and spun in a way to make HER look like the victim and YOU look like the bad guy. Do NOT UNDERESTIMATE the ability of a wayward to LIE and SPIN TAILS!!! Honestly and no stretch of the truth, my WstbxH managed to convince his own mother that he didn't even MEET OW until after he asked me for a divorce, yet they fell in love and he was ready to move her into my house 5 days later (D-day)!!!! She still believes this to this day.

One reason swift exposure works better is because people hear your version (the truth) first. Once they hear her version, which has been well thought out and designed to also portray you as a crazy freak who's making false accusation, then people don't know what to believe and just stay out of it.

Your eldest will not just 'bury her head in the sand'. She will act out. God, I would hate for her to run away, become pregnant or take drugs before you believe she's affected.

Please protect your children. Expose to them as well in an age appropriate manner.

There's one in EN which also rings true by Whenifever/Nowisthemoment. Basically where a WW has told her H that she does not find him physically attractive.

So I thought I had a willing recovery partner, then I found out she had been calling him (3 times in a month)and arranged to "bump into" each other last week. (she did tell me immediately but said it was a chance meeting and she got "closure")

The last time I know for sure they met was at the end of July. Since then I think there has been some texting (at friend's house with the secret cell). The difference is that your W will (sometimes) tell you that she has had contact, mine is still hiding it. From what I have found out, similarly they would 'bump' into each other while W was out having coffee with her friends and I was at the gym

Counseled with Jenn H last night and got the whole program -- eliminating her easy ways of contacting him, ENs, LBs, etc etc.

Have spent over £400 on private counselling and got no further. This was a few months back. She was very unenthusiastic about it but in the end got more out of it than I did, only 'cause the MC said, in so many words, that her mother passing justified what she did! The MC did state NC but she didn't want to hear that bit

I told her and I told my W I don't have the gas anymore.

Trying to figure out where that leaves me.

My advice to you:

1. Realize you are in an intolerable situation.

2. What does your wife fear? It is more important to stop contact then it is to worry about upsetting her at this point. I quite happily threatened to go for custody, to throw her out (did for a few days), to file a public divorce with the details of the affair, etc.

Have threatened D more than once, also said 'Do you want to be weekend mum?' Saying that I would go for joint custody. It gave her something to think about for all of about 48Hrs? and she was back to contact...If I thraeten to throw her out, she will just come back with 'Well you can't, this house is half mine' It makes her angry that I am always claiming the high moral ground.

That got a promise (oh well) of no contact, it got us into counseling, it got her to quit her job.

That and the exposure gave me the ability to at least go forward with some hope.

I know you are scared of losing her, but at what point does that tip to your intolerance for the situation (not a rhetorical question, I'm there too :-( )

My tolerance levels get broken time and time again. Not sure how much more I can take

You might be surprised at the reaction you get by getting tough.

Here are some thoughts --

-- don't know about the UK, but a guy that threatens violence agaisnt a child's parent would be fired immediately here. Do you do that? Maybe it is a gun better waved than fired. Maybe that threat gets the WW to quit the school stuff, or gets the OM to stop contact.

'Funny' thing is her brother (my BIL) is very high in the Police force. He is an Inspector! He has said that if anything happens to me, he (and his contacts) will be down on OM like a ton of bricks. OM knows this and also my W. OM has said to her 'I don't care, I know some very nasty people, it won't be me who does anything but one some of my 'friends' You're worth it'. W replies 'If you or your friends lay one finger on him (meaning me) you won't have me'!

-- again don't know about the UK, but I know my W has a lot of fear of a public document memorializing her infidelity (with details). When I waved that she acceded to my demand and moved out.

-- What the OM did with you in threats is a crime in the US. Go talk to the police or a lawyer, even if you don't do anything right away. He may think with his fists, but he may reconsider if a judge has specifically told him that in this case he will be going to jail if he does.

-- if you are afraid of being the tough guy, maybe a lawyer can for you?

Jezz, keep me posted I feel like you are my twin...

Well, my W is painfully polite, but to my surprise she listed Attractive Spouse as EN1. I have no idea what the OM looks like other than he is smaller than me.

She did tell me she had it in her head because I had an illness three years ago and looked like a skeleton for awhile.

Anyway, right before D-day I had lost 26 pounds and I look great now by all acounts, 6", 182", so I think that is a positive. Also bought some clothes which helps as well.

Conflict avoiding has never been a successful strategy!!! Your wife seems to not have any repect for you and your behaving weakly doesn't help, especially when the OM by your post appears strong. Don't bluff!!! When/if you ever give your ultimatum to your wife...she will probably call your bluff and refuse or threaten divorce. She will expect the weak Phil to back down and stay in the corner with his thumb in his mouth while she continues. She is actually the one that is bluffing!!! What is she going to do...divorce and leave you for a janitor??? She has not stopped the affair and will not until you stand up for yourself. You stated your daughter is now showing signs of putting her head in the sand like you....that will be disasterous for her future relationships if it is not corrected. Show her how to handle problems with strength not weakness!!!

PS: that's the problem with the UK :-) With all the guns my wife knows I own, ain't NOBODY coming to my house to kick my [censored] :-)

"You stated your daughter is now showing signs of putting her head in the sand like you....that will be disasterous for her future relationships if it is not corrected. Show her how to handle problems with strength not weakness!!!"

I agree.
I would also like to add that it is very dangerous to assume your daughters don't realize something is going on, and that it won't affect them negatively.

I concur. I will do my level best to see they come out of this whatever happens, not emotionally scarred

Open a separate bank account and deposit your paychex into it.
Don't put another cent into the joint account.

Check. It's on the list

Do (a long overdue) radical exposure to everyone, even to those who already know and don't seem to care. Your apathy is playing a role in preventing them from expressing disapproval of the adultery. They probably figure you know and don't care; or they've been spoonfed lies and justifications from the adulterers.

Depends what you class as adultery. I am pretty sure (99%), that they have not had intercourse and nothing anywhere near it. AFAIK, it's been a grope and fumble on the odd occasion, there's something that stops them going that bit further

You are letting your fear paralyze you.

Yes

One thing you're afraid of is losing the house.
Your WW should be just as afraid about that but she isn't...
the reason she isn't afraid enough about that to stop her adultery is because she thinks she can count on you to worry about that. She thinks you are so scared that you will just shut up and put up! You have basically allowed her to hold that like a trump card. So what I think you should do is put a "for sale" sign out front as soon as you do the exposure. The thing is you very well might lose your home anyway, after she cheats on you even longer, she may very well divorce you. May as well slap that trump card out of her deck ASAP IMHO.

I have told her that the house WILL go if we split. I am very friendly with our local estate agent and he is aware that our property may well be coming onto the market

As far as being afraid of the OM because of his size and temper, you could enlist a couple of male buddies to accompany you on a little visit with him...

I have thought of this too. Believe me, there is nothing I would like more than to beat the heII out of him. But...if I get caught and he names me then that is my livleyhood out of the window. I would lose my Taxi Driver's Licence and where would that leave me and my Ds? On the other hand, my cousin is more than willing to help out, and I know for a fact that OM is very wary about him

You need to take a stand for the sake of yourself, your marriage, and your daughters.

Expose the adultery to everyone. You think that won't make a difference but it will. The #1 reason adulterers do NOT get fired from their jobs is because the co-workers and bosses think the BS doesn't know or doesn't care. By exposing you are letting them know that you do know, do care, and that you expect them to not enable the adultery. THAT is how you motivate others to stop enabling, to stop hiding behind 'not wanting to get involved' and 'looking the other way', by YOU taking a strong stand, then some of them will stand with you.

If I could do that without OM knowing it was me who 'spilt the beans' then I would be there tomorrow (If the school was open!)

Phil,

Have you tried anti-depressants? I'm on Prozac since d-day, and it has softened the valleys and helped me think clearly.

No, I haven't. W has been on them for 2 months to cope with loss of losing her mother. Not sure how I'd feel going on them

I've thought a lot about your situation. This is what I think i would do if I were you:

1. Go to your police friend -- I think you said you could trust him, even though he is related to your wife. Tell him about the threats, including of using third parties, and see what he says. I know in the US you could probably get them to talk to the guy. Maybe mention that this sort of behavior is usually not compatible with employment in a school. Trust me, he might be some tough guy, but if he knows he's looking at the slammer I think that should give you the courage you need.

Yes it's my BIL. He's aware of the situation but cannot do much (so he says) unless 'something' happens. Says alot of it is 'hearsay' i.e. what I've heard my W saying on DVR about what OM would do, and is not admissible in court.

2. As I said, figure out your wife's weak point. Mine's was the public filing of a detailed adultery action, and me making a play for full custody of the girls. That made her want to "do anything" (at gunpoint, of course) Now, I must say, do anything meant eventually call the OPM, but it definitely was progress.

Pretty sure adultery has not taken place but could bluff I guess, saying that i could name him on D petition? Was told by solicitor back in Feb that I could go for D on grounds of 'unreasonable behaviour'. That would not be a problem. As I said earlier I have said to W about custody of girls and that did make her think (not for long enough obv)

3. Figuring out your threat (X), sit down in a loving fashion, and say "I've made some decisions. I'm unhappy in this marriage. I'm going to do X unless you do Y."

Figure out what Y is. Quit the school stuff, go into counseling, allow extraordinary no contact measures, move away, think about it. I made my W get an STD test and go on anti-deps.

Quit the school stuff would be a start. She knows I am not happy about the P.A. stuff, which is why she avoided telling me about the letter she received. I happened to see it on table.

She is already on anti-deps.

As I've said, last physical contact AFAIK was end of July. Not 100% sure about texting/calling, her friend was not at meeting yesterday, and I took her and picked her up. Will see how the next few days pans out