Ooohhh.... *hugs* I'm so sorry to hear about your sister. Was the fight bad enough that you think she should consider reporting it??? If staying with friends isn't an option, I wonder if there's some sort of agency she could turn to? Or a church group?

That's sad that your H won't let you offer her a place to stay. Also sad that you can't phone your mom. Do you think your mom is safe? Again, should your sister report something?

Does she have long-term plans, like school?

Jayne, thanks for the hugs. In my house, it comes and goes instages, and there's the glass or two with dinner phase too, but unfortunately in my house it doesn't stay there.

I was so happy this morning. I didn't know about my sister. In the Tools, I got to the part where you list career goals, but I wasn't feeling anything so exciting at work, so I was thinking, maybe taking on a bigger role at church. Then this morning, our small group leader asked me if I'd partner with another member to have small group meetings in our homes, alternating, for a group of new members with elementary aged kids. Every other week, Thursday or Friday nights. They even had a curriculum already for Bible-based parenting if we wanted to do that, which sounded great. Really just what I was looking for. I came home, and H says that's "fine", but don't expect him to be here. That I should call the coordinator and tell her that she misunderstood, that my H won't be participating, and she should ask someone else. I said, I'm not up for negotiating this today, let me take 24 hours and I'll discuss it.

I feel so stifled by my lack of anything that he's interested to put on the table, so he could be enthusiastic. I remember in Love Is A Decision about how we have to give up some things when the spouse isn't going to be enthusiastic. And I understand that. I am trying to think of other ways to be of service that don't piss H off. I'm feeling very cornered. I am trying, jayne, to view this as an opportunity, to become a master negotiator. I am working on choosing my attitude. It is helping, I feel less hopeless than I did earlier.

You're doing a better job at choosing your attitude and looking for the opportunity, than I've been doing... so kudos to you.

*hugs*

I can't think of any good ideas right now, but I'll be thinking and praying. I wanted to send this post on though, in case you go to bed soon.

I don't know if it would be good to report it. She didn't describe it specifically but she described it as he started it, and she ended it. She said she does have marks.

Yes, there are other options for her. And she does have a friend whose parents are letting her stay until she's back on her feet. She's in a GED program. She goes to school and works in the next town, and it wouldn't have been practical for her to stay here anyhow. I didn't ask H anything, like if she could stay here. I wish I were in a position to help her instead of staying distant. Anything I do to visit her will tick H off. He was questioning me over and over why I was upset. So he can pass judgement on each feeling I had, and throw shots at me about it. POJA feels like a straightjacket right now.

I thought they were safe, my mom included. I feel very detached form that, like she can decide for herself if she's safe. I'll call her tomorrow at work, when my stepdad isn't over her shoulder listening.

Thanks for the prayers, too, jayne. 'm praying for her and them, too. They're in good hands I'm so glad you were up tonight! I'm headed to bed, too!

EO - Looks like you've had a rough weekend. I very sorry read about this and regret that I don't have anything of tangible advice to offer. Your situation is so far beyond anything that I've experienced, that I'd be commenting from total ignorance. I admire your choice to persevere with your eyes wide open to what's going on around you.

Hi ears, are things feeling better today?

A couple thoughts.

First, if he's drinking that much, what's the possibility that it's going to affect his job? A lot of alcoholics end up losing their jobs. How would that affect you? I'm not trying to give you another stressor, but I think that if you acknowledge it that you might not get blindsided so much if it actually happens, kwim?

Also, I was wondering how you feel about being with him if you don't get what you need. As in, if it turns into a roommate situation. Are you willing to accept that? I guess what I'm asking is, where is your breaking point? It seems like you may not know, and that lack of understanding is keeping you from making stronger decisions. Some days you seem like you're willing to walk away, others you sound like you're stuck because you won't leave. I guess it's just confusing me, so I can only imagine how much it's confusing you, adding to your stress.

Not as well once he woke up. I'm working hard on keeping that internal focus. This keylogging thing is scaring the heck outta me. I think I'm going to install it onto my own home PC (laptop) for a few days first, to make sure no wierd messages come up. I found the Spying 101 thread, and that had good info there. Those people didn't sound as afraid as I feel. But I've heard not to compare my insides with someone else's outside.

If I did find something, what a thought, I don't know if I'm built to handle that. I hope I don't have to find out.

The drinking hasn't affected his work in years, but I understand that there is a risk that it will again. I am financially okay here, can pay everything myself, thankfully, and I would have to think through how to do that if we moved somewhere more expensive.

Today, I feel like I am willing to accept a roomate situation. But I'm glad we're in MC, because a roomate situation is not my vision for my life. Nor do I really think it is H's. I think do have a walk line, and I was planning to write out a Plan B letter for myself, when things were harder than they were today. Not something to give to him, because I'm not there yet, but to clarify for myself where that is. Because like you said, it is confusing to me. I have felt ready to walk before, and felt a lot of comfort in that decision. But then I flet relieved when the pressure let up again, too.

I am feeling a lot better. I talked to my sister, and she has lined up some good interviews for full-time work while she finishes her GED. She also reassured me again that she has a good place to stay, with a friend and her family. They had offered her to stay there before all this happened. Her Dad doesn't know where she is staying, so she is not concerned about him showing up there unnanounced. She didn't even want to tell me where she is, just in case, and I respect that.

I called my mom, and she's busy, can't talk now, but I felt better just hearing in her voice that she is okay. Her birthday is Friday, and my sister asked me to let her know where we're meeting, and she'll get there on her own. If my stepdad won't be there. I understand. I am thinking given the situation, that H would feel better if I didn't suggest bringing the kids right now.

Arranged to meet H for lunch at one of our favorite places. Very cheap and healthy. Cat, I get what you're saying about all the pressure. We've got to be kind to each other instead of staying in that pressure cooker. I did well disconnecting this morning from how heated and agitated he was on the phone, and sending a short email about lunch instead.

I don't plan on bringing up my sister, and I will keep it short if it does come up. It's up to him how he works through his concerns about her coming to stay. I already assured him that I won't invite her to stay here. I accept that he doesn't trust me on this. All I can do is stay consistent.

Ears, on the children's study group thing, why was it important to you that your husband be there? Most of these things are only an hour or two long, right?

I'm not a big fan of lots of kids over at my place, so I can understand why he wouldn't want to do that. Did he say that you can't have it, or that he wouldn't be involved in it? That seems to be a really different matter.

Also, why does your husband believe that you might slip and have your sister move in? Have you done things like this before? I understand where you're coming from on feeling responsible for a sibling because I have a relationship like that with my younger brothers. There are lots of ways to help without actually giving them money, or letting them move in.

I'm sorry your husband is drinking so much. That would be so hard to take, and it seems that he's getting very negative. Do you think this is in reponse to the drinking? My dh has a pretty negative view of the world (like its all about competition) and thinks I'm a clueless female because I don't understand how things REALLY are. I'm having a hard time being supportive of his right to think this way.

Happy2CU, thanks so much for posting here. It lightens my load to be able to share it here on the board like this, and to hear other people's experience, strength, and hope.


Because he is telling the MC that I'm "gone every night" and she has asked us to consider "closing our exits." Me taking this on if he's not willing to participate he is viewing as yet another thing that takes me away from the marriage. Even though I was already gone these two evenings a month.



I understand the not wanting kids over, but he hasn't yet expressed that. He said he wishes I wouldn't, but he's not going to tell me not to. But he's not willing to negotiate what would make him enthusiastic about me doing this.



No, but this has been a fear of his our whole marriage.



Yes, and my sister is okay. Right now I'm helping by helping her get a good resume together.



Cat talks about this worldview in her thread, that Right Man Syndrome. It's a pretty neat page linked in page 1 or 2 of her thread. The loving detachment and asking for clarification REALLY helps with that part.

What a difference a day makes. I told him again, I am so excited about this, and I want to know what it would take for you to be, too. He said that I'm away from the kids too much. I clarified that the kids participate in the fellowship after the bible study, just not in the one hour. I was surprised to hear him say that, because I assumed that he knew that already. I used to bring the kids with me when I went to the other house. But once I said that, he was cool with it. And I hear his concern that we need to plan more fun stuff as a family, too, so we're talking about activities we can do together, too.

I am very excited, but I still don't know myself if this is the right long term opportunity for my family. Small groups are intended for families to get together for fellowship with other families. Which is not the case in my house. When I was just attending, not leading, I could just not go when family activities came up. Which would be more disruptive if I was a co-leader. I am thinking about what Dr. H says about sometimes it being the best decision for the marriage to give up hobbies for others that your spouse enjoys instead.

I have pulled out of several volunteer opportunities lately so that we can center on the family. Learn to say no, and all. But you have to weigh that against the happiness you would get from doing it; if it's something that really makes your day, you'll be a better person for it.

Thanks, cat. I heard "There are no Small Changes", and that really feels true today. I am thrilled we were able to POJA this.

What I am thinking is, this is two days a month, that I was already doing. It feels like A BIG DEAL because we stopped doing a lot of things we used to do together over the years. We talked last night about having a brainstorming with the family and start a new thing together, too, like how we used to go to the park and barbeque on Sundays. On second though, a non-food activity LOL. Maybe biking, or going to the beach.

Hi, there's a whole bunch of questions in this post, I hope you don't mind.

How do you feel about your husband's comment to the counselor that you are always gone in the evening? Do you feel this is true, or is he exaggerating? If he's drinking too much, maybe you are using activities to try and ignore that behaviour.

When your dh drinks, is this pretty much a solitary activity for him, or is he involved with the rest of the family? I guess I'd see a difference between a man that holes up in the basement with the tv and a 6-pack, and someone that interacts with the family while drinking.

Is it possible that you can tell him that you've been doing this external activities because its difficult to be around him when he drinks? Or that he doesn't interact with you when he drinks, so its the same as him not really being there, so you might as well go out?

I'm not really sure what the situation is, so I'm just guessing. When I was a kid my Mom used to drink to excess, and all of us (including my father) would avoid her like the plague.

Thanks for your comment about the negative world-view. I have been following Cat's thread with interest because there are a few things that our husbands have in common.

This negativity came to a head a few nights ago, and I told him that although I understand that this is how he sees the world, that I don't agree. I told him that its ok for him to see things that way, but not to rant to me for hours about it. I basically told him it's a love-buster (didn't use that term), and that it was making me very unhappy to have to listen to it for hours. I suggested that if he needs to vent about that subject at length, that he talk to another male friend about it, since a guy would be more likely to understand his viewpoint.

We ended up agreed that both our world-views are reasonable to the individual, and that we don't have to convince each other that one is more right. Overall I think it was a good conversation.

How do you feel about your husband's comment to the counselor that you are always gone in the evening? Do you feel this is true, or is he exaggerating?

I agree we are out a lot on the evening, but I don't agree that it's me by myself. H and I used to do stuff out of the house most nights before kids. Then, we got bogged down with the babies, overworking, tv, and depression.

When the kids got older, they got involved in activities, like scouts and soccer, and I finally got treated for my depression. I don't want to stay home all the time anymore. A lot of what I do, like groceries or soccer, are open to doing together, and we do stuff together a lot. DD12 and I used to go to the gym together a few nights a week, but now I go in the morning instead, and we'll do a family exercise like a walk or bike ride in the evening. Also, when I started Alanon, I was out of the house a night or two a week for that, and when I got to the step 4 inventory, I found I needed more help, and started IC. We also started MC this summer, and it's every week right now because we're trying to get back on the same page. I think there is room to plan time at home, too.


When your dh drinks, is this pretty much a solitary activity for him, or is he involved with the rest of the family?

He used to go out a night a week with his drinking buddy, but the drinking buddy "dumped" him after his wife left him, to hang out with other folks. That's gotta be hard, but IMO he needs friends that he can do healthy things with instead. But now it's mostly at home in the evening when the kids are getting ready for bed, and after they've gone to bed. He puts stuff on TV like The Godfather that I've already seen 100 times and not interested in seeing again. He complains that I never just sit with him, and sometimes he'll put on something I like. Lately, this has been a lot better. When the Olympics were on, we both liked that, and that was fun to watch together. And now this week the election stuff. I work around it, too, and meet him for lunch and spend UA time with him in the morning. And we do date nights.


Is it possible that you can tell him that you've been doing this external activities because its difficult to be around him when he drinks? Or that he doesn't interact with you when he drinks, so its the same as him not really being there, so you might as well go out?

I've explained that it is important to me to heal and get stronger, and that my Alanon program and the IC and MC are really helping me to do that. I don't think he sees the results as much as I do, because I've had the AOs eliminated already for some time now.

I am glad that you were willing to bring up the negativity with your H, and that you were able to think of alternatives to offer. What did he think about talking to a friend? Did he suggest any alternatives, too?

My H doesn't go on for hours on the same thing, but rather different things. I listen and address them, but it hasn't yet helped his feelings underneath. For example, he was concerned about DD12's weight, so I took her exercising with me. But he was still concerned, so we took her to a nutritionist, who suggested changes that we implemented. She went from 75%ile for her age and height to 50%ile, but he's still concerned, so she's going to start a dance class and riding her bike to school in addition to the dietary changes. And we got a new dog that we walk a lot. I think it takes time for it to sink in that "no situation is hopeless, and no problems too difficult to be bettered."

You know what the fight with my sister started over? Because she called her Dad on a lie. He said, I'm going to the store. He always says that, and then leaves with all the money in the house and comes back with nothing. The guys at the pool hall, the casino, something else, no one really knows nor wants to know where it goes. My mom says, take B20, he'll help you. And her dad says, no, I don't need help with the groceries. My sister was done dancing the dance. She starts laughing. "Why are you laughing?" he goes over to her to intimidate her when he asks. "Why would you need help with the groceries? You're not going to the grocery store." That was all it took to set him off into physical violence. Made it really solid in her mind that leaving was the right choice to make. All it takes is one person to stop dancing. I'm so proud of her for getting out of that house.

Hi Ears,

Regarding the conversation with my dh about the negativity, he didn't really have any other suggestions, but he thought the idea about talking to his friends was a good one. I really admire the relationships he has with his friends, they actually talk about the important things going on in their lives, and not just the football. I think it helps that most of his friends are 50+ in age.

It sounds like you really find the most fun in going out and doing things, while your husband is more interested in being at home. I think outside activities can be both good and bad. On one hand it gives you topics for conversation when you come back home. One the bad side, it drastically limits the time you have for interaction. If you're not there, he can't talk to you even if he wanted to.

I hear you on the watching the same movies over and over again. We have a sattelite dish with the movie package, and so they show the same blockbuster movies for about a month. DH often watches the same one over and over and over... augghghhg!!!

I've gotten so I don't really like watching movies on tv, I'd rather have some verbal interaction, so I've been pushing for activities where we do that. We have an agreemend that we spend about a half-hour a day talking (not watching tv!), and this has helped out a lot.

I'm assuming since you've been attending Al-anon that your husband's drinking was bothering you. Is it still the drinking that's problematic, or the fact that he's not involved with the rest of the family?

I feel bad for your husband's hyper-focus on your daughter's weight. I was about 20 lbs overweight in high school, and my dad berated me every day of my life about it. Of course after high school my self-esteem was shot and I put on even more weight. I've spend the rest of my life trying to keep it off, and battling the negative opinion he gave me about myself. I hope you can convey to your husband how damaging this is to a child's psyche.

Happy, thanks again for your presence here. I really appreciate the insight.

On one hand it gives you topics for conversation when you come back home. One the bad side, it drastically limits the time you have for interaction. If you're not there, he can't talk to you even if he wanted to.

To put it in context, this is after 10+ years of trying as hard as I knew how to be available to spend time with him. He called me clingy for years. He tells the MC that I don't give him enough space.

When he told her that he thinks I'm out every night, she asked, "Do you mean you want her to spend more time with you?" He answered, "No, I mean I want her to spend more time with the kids." FC is his top EN.

I plan for UA time in the mornings, and lunches together, so I don't have a negative consequence when he gets drunk in the evening. I don't ahead of time when that will be or not be. He went a month in May without getting drunk at all as far as I know. But I understand that doesn't mean I don't need to be home in the evening, either LOL. I am cutting back evening things, which I would have had to do anyhow, because the kids need time in the evenings.

The drinking itself is not impacting me the way it did when I got there almost 3 years ago. He's drinking a lot less, and hasn't gotten sick(vomiting) since I started. I still have the feeling that it's laying like a snake in the grass, watching and waiting for a weakness, waiting for the right time to strike again. The MC says that will go away over time if H drinks moderately instead of to excess consistently over time. That makes sense, that dread feeling has gone away before. Didn't mean the snake wasn't still there waiting. But it took the grip of that fear off of my life. I'm working to keep an open mind for now.

I have been warned by friends who have BTDT to communicate to H about the impact of his hyperfocus on DD12's weight on her. We've discussed it with this MC and the previous one. He says he doesn't know how else to keep it in check. I've read some great books on this too, like Ending the Food Fight, and share what I've read, but it hasn't sank in for him yet.

Hmm, I can't remember if you've tried describing it to him like this, but... how about comparing H's hyperfocus on DD's weight, and what the family eats, to how he would receive it if you did the same with every time he took a drink? I'm not talking about expressing valid concerns when he drinks to the point of getting sick or abusive or when someone scarfs down a whole birthday cake in one sitting; but making some sort of comment, the type he makes, every time he reached for one drink?

ETA: what I mean is, describing this to him, to explain why constant... well, in guy's terms, frankly *nagging* is not helping any weight/eating issues. If anything it can have the opposite effect.