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Thanks for keeping it real, Mrs. W. LOL! You bet KIR, and thank you too...I am a great admirer of your posts!  Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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There's a saying I'm quite fond of when I hear an adulteror try and justify their adulterous actions:
You can polish a turd until your arms fall off, but at the end of the day ITS STILL A TURD. *sigh* John 8
1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." Floodcity: You can and have justified your actions. That's the way humans live with themselves when held under the microscope by all the other 'sinless'. CAST THE FIRST STONE:
o Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, saying Moses' law said to kill her by throwing stones at her: what do You say? Jesus answer: "...If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."(John 8:7) And, the woman was not harmed. Don't ask my what it is about 'Christians' tossing rocks...when they are throwing them at themselves. Conquer the angry man by love.
Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness.
Conquer the miser with generosity.
Conquer the liar with truth.
The Dhammapada Immoral actions do not mutate into Moral actions through personal justification. They only exist through wrong choices. The essence remains unchanged, your point of view has shifted. Nothing more. ...you know in your heart...it's wrong.
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Just to level set some misinformed NEW members. Marriage Builders is NOT a Christian based site. Meaning, not all members are Christians.
Stay, read, learn.
Jo
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CAST THE FIRST STONE:
o Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, saying Moses' law said to kill her by throwing stones at her: what do You say? Jesus answer: "...If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."(John 8:7) And, the woman was not harmed. Then this ... ... you know in your heart...it's wrong. 
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Jo...I know...  I know it's wrong for me. Floodcity would not have been here if she did not have something prickling the edge of her awareness. We all die alone. It is ok to walk away....even when it hurts. God or whatever each person's faith. will sort out the mess in the afterlife...till then...She is in this existence and must deal with what she can change. To choose the correct Action is not always the easiest Path. However, the harder you slam someone over the head with the obvious, the greater the resistance...Humans are such messy beings...  when we dig deep enough, not one is better than another.
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***edit***
9 out of 10 things wrong with this world is a direct result of people UNWILLING to put their needs behind someone elses.
Now if Dr. H meant UNCEASING, NEVERENDING, ALWAYS GIVING SACRIFICE was a sign of some psychological need....well, maybe he's got a point, unless youre the son of God.
If sacrifice creates resentment in others, is FAKE sacrifice NOT real. Sacrifice is based in unselfishness and giving. If you do it so you seem the martyr, it ain't sacrifice, its manipulation.
Last edited by Maverick_mb; 09/04/08 02:30 PM. Reason: personal attack
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#2117899 - 08/28/08 06:46 P floodcity Offline Junior Member Registered: 08/28/08 Posts: 5 I am a BS. My H has had multiple As, some produced children. I tried to be forgiving. I tried to take the high road. In the end I kicked his butt to the curb. *ouch* I am now the OW to a MM whose M was long ago over. His W and I know each other, she has a MM of her own. Apparently his wife doesn't give a rat's as*...so why should anyone else? And if that makes any of you mad, perhaps you need to look inside yourselves and ask if you would be willing to step in my shoes and help someone when there is absolutely no reward for you at the end of journey. Nope. Not willing. Run screaming in the opposite direction. If sacrifice creates resentment in others, is FAKE sacrifice NOT real. Sacrifice is based in unselfishness and giving. If you do it so you seem the martyr, it ain't sacrifice, its manipulation. Well said. She has told me she does not want him, she only wants the money. Hmmmmm *nice*... I am merely easing the suffering of a dying man. *sigh* Were it me ,[the dying man with no kids]...and my husband wanted nothing to do with me in my last days, only to pick over my corpse for goodies?....I'd let GOD do the judging. Empathy...compassion. Dead in this day and age? Tse-kung asked, 'Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?' Confucius replied, 'It is the word 'shu' -- reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.'" Doctrine of the Mean 13.3 ... And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Wife doesn't want him. Man is dying. Other woman loves him. Crucify her...for what? She is not the Adulterer...HE is...by a sad twist of fate... Floodcity...you are divorced by now I take it?Humans...messy, messy creatures. Absolute Morality will forever elude us. There is a reason for that.
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I am a BS. My H has had multiple As, some produced children. I tried to be forgiving. I tried to take the high road. In the end I kicked his butt to the curb. Her past victimization does not in any way, shape or form give her the right to go and victimize others. Empathy and compassion indeed. I am now the OW to a MM whose M was long ago over. His W and I know each other, she has a MM of her own. Apparently his wife doesn't give a rat's as*...so why should anyone else? Riiiiight. The words of an active OW cannot be trusted, SoulDragoN. She is an INTERLOPER in this marriage. This man is NOT free to be with her. He is MARRIED. Justification and Rationalization. If her lips are moving she is lying. She has told me she does not want him, she only wants the money. EVEN IF THIS WERE TRUE (highly doubt it - words from an active OW and all)...It does NOT matter...The man is MARRIED...He belongs to ANOTHER until either DIVORCE or DEATH. I am merely easing the suffering of a dying man. Oh Puhlease...Helping a man bust open the gates of He!! is NOT something to be proud of...Sick, twisted and sad... Were it me ,[the dying man with no kids]...and my husband wanted nothing to do with me in my last days, only to pick over my corpse for goodies?....I'd let GOD do the judging. He will... Empathy...compassion. Dead in this day and age? I will reserve my empathy and compassion for the real victim in this situation...The BW...The BW who you can BET has a MUCH different story than this OW is telling... Man is dying.
Other woman loves him.
Crucify her...for what? Again, you cannot believe the words of an active OW!!! Nor those of an active WS...The man may very well not even be dying!!! He just doesn't wish to divorce BW, and he knows that a gullible OW will believe anything...sheesh... She is not the Adulterer...HE is...by a sad twist of fate... If you are looking for a name for her sin, it is called fornication...Again, this man she is with is NOT free to be hers...He is MARRIED to someone else...The BEST thing OW could do for this "dying" man would be to walk away from him...Tell him to reconcile with his wife and give him the opportunity to get right with God...If she were truly unselfish and altruistic and genuinely cared about him THAT is what she would do...I'll not hold my breath... Humans...messy, messy creatures. Absolute Morality will forever elude us. There is a reason for that. A proponent of moral relativity? I should have guessed...Ugh... As my mom used to say (and I wish I'd have listened all those years ago - but I get it NOW...phew)..."Times may change, but morals NEVER do!" Yes, there ARE moral absolutes in this world. Just because some people choose not to abide by them doesn't make them less true or absolute... Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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SoulDragoN quoted FloodCity in defense of her: I am a BS. My H has had multiple As, some produced children. I tried to be forgiving. I tried to take the high road. In the end I kicked his butt to the curb. Whats your point SoulDragonN? Do you think FloodCity should get a pass because her H was a Serial Adulterer and procreated outside the marriage making illegitimate children? I didn't become an OW and my H did the exact same thing. He also left me a little gift that resulted in stage 3 cervical cancer. So do you think I'm owed an adulterous affair of my own because I've been thru so much and was mistreated? What I find the MOST concerning about your posts SoulDragoN is you're spending your time here as a NEWBIE defending folks who STEAL from others. Why have you decided or find it necessary to assign yourself the thieves' champion??? Jo
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Crucify her...for what?
She is not the Adulterer...HE is...by a sad twist of fate...
Floodcity...you are divorced by now I take it?
Humans...messy, messy creatures. Absolute Morality will forever elude us. There is a reason for that. "Absolute morality" might elude YOU and the world's population of criminals, but it doesn't "elude" most thinking people. Our prisons are full of people with "flexible" morality, who can't judge right from wrong, and that is right where they belong. Having an affair with a married man is sin, no matter how you rationalize it. It is to climb into the pig pen and waller around like a pig. [my apologies to pigs for the insulting comparison] It doesn't matter if his wife condones it or even if she is jumping up and down, sin is sin and if flood city really cared about this man, she would leave him alone instead of helping him be an adulterer. That is no act of love, that is an act of gross selfishness at this married man's expense. When you "love" someone, you don't help them be BAD, you help them be GOOD. She is about as "loving" as the sicko who hands a gun to the suicidal person to "be nice." :RollieEyes: I will never understand why any thinking woman would waste her time on someone elses man. Why be a cockroach eating crumbs from some other woman's TABLE OF LIFE?  Why choose to be a cockroach? I don't get that.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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If you are looking for a name for her sin, it is called fornication...Again, this man she is with is NOT free to be hers...He is MARRIED to someone else...The BEST thing OW could do for this "dying" man would be to walk away from him...Tell him to reconcile with his wife and give him the opportunity to get right with God...If she were truly unselfish and altruistic and genuinely cared about him THAT is what she would do...I'll not hold my breath... You are correct. What I find the MOST concerning about your posts SoulDragoN is you're spending your time here as a NEWBIE defending folks who STEAL from others. Why have you decided or find it necessary to assign yourself the thieves' champion??? Am not defending her. Not from the start, and not now. Only following the path of her rationalizations...sorry if that isn't clear. "Absolute morality" might elude YOU and the world's population of criminals, but it doesn't "elude" most thinking people. Our prisons are full of people with "flexible" morality, who can't judge right from wrong, and that is right where they belong. No..it doesn't. As none is GOD on this existence...it will ELUDE all...and even those on this thread who are the most vehemently attacking this woman. Having an affair with a married man is sin, no matter how you rationalize it. It is to climb into the pig pen and waller around like a pig. [my apologies to pigs for the insulting comparison] It doesn't matter if his wife condones it or even if she is jumping up and down, sin is sin and if flood city really cared about this man, she would leave him alone instead of helping him be an adulterer. Correct...and if you read my post in it's entirety and the preceding ones as well, you will note I said the same thing. I will never understand why any thinking woman would waste her time on someone elses man. Why be a cockroach eating crumbs from some other woman's TABLE OF LIFE? Why choose to be a cockroach? I don't get that. People do the most damnable things each and every day...two wrongs don't make a right. What I find the MOST concerning about your posts SoulDragoN is you're spending your time here as a NEWBIE defending folks who STEAL from others. Why have you decided or find it necessary to assign yourself the thieves' champion??? Newbie...*shrug* been reading this forum for several years. Reading articles and applying the principles as best I can. I am not perfect. No one is. You did not understand my post. I do NOT condone her actions [ I am not God so who gives a crap what I think...] I followed her train of rationalizations. When she wants to add more, IF she comes back here after getting run off and demonized...it would be better to hear her out, and help her to GET OUT of that situation. Instead...she came here KNOWING deep down that this was a BS position...and was further punched and kicked while she was down...*nice* Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, .....
Jesus is also clear - Everyone is accepted and welcome. Grace is grace! All will be judged according to their acts but the kingdom of God is open to EVERY one of us as we are ALL sinners. SHOOT EM ALL, LET GOD SORT EM OUT. ....in the mean time...it would behoove those that have strayed and have learned from that experience to gently LEAD another walking down that path to a better path. Is it really that hard? If you are looking for a name for her sin, it is called fornication... Welcome to the American way of life. EVERYBODY is fornicating with anyone and anything over there. Heck...people over there *********edit*********!!!!!...???? Who am I to judge? Strange sick world...but it seems to be all the rage. That is not only immoral but downright disgusting. just an aside to how screwed up the world isA proponent of moral relativity? I should have guessed...Ugh... Dead wrong on that. YOU strayed in your marriage. I "strayed" in mine...I left HIM long before due to Abuse...marriage was only on paper...he had his honey ..and I later got mine. *oh well* Absolutely WRONG. Who is better? YOU / ME/ FLOODCITY? NEITHER....we were ALL FOS justifying our actions. In the end we ALL pay...be it in H*ll or the living one we create in our current existence. Is it possible that YOU are NOT wrong, and I am NOT Right...somewhere in the middle someone needs to see the light... Our prisons are full of people with "flexible" morality, who can't judge right from wrong, and that is right where they belong. Nahhh...they deserve to be DEAD. Eye for an EYE...tooth for a tooth. God can sort the quagmire out after the fact. HE/SHE who is without SIN tossing rocks...is living in a GLASS HOUSE
Last edited by JustUss; 09/05/08 01:41 PM. Reason: tos nasty
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I know I posted I was not coming back, but perhaps there are lessons to be learned here ....
Does "I hate you." "I wish you were dead." and "Why don't you die already?" coming from her to him qualify as she does not want him? How about "I don't love you, I haven't loved you for a long time." How about a punch to the back of the head near the location of a tumor? Is that the words and actions of someone who loves their husband?
I heard the words but did not see the action. I also asked his best friend, his brother, a person I know that did work for them that did not know there is any connection between the two of us. All came back with the same story. If the story had been different I would have walked away. If they had children I would have walked away. They have none.
Many times I have told him he needs to go to counseling, work on his marriage, work to fix it. She is not interested in that. She wants the money. That is fine, it is hers. I have no interest in it.
So I love this man. There is no sex, there is no financial benefit to me, there is nothing expected by me. Why is it so wrong to help him? Would God want me to just leave him there alone with no one to take him to his medical appointments? No one to just sit and listen to him? No one to hold him when he cries because the pain is so intense he can't stand it?
Maybe some will think that is wrong, but I was taught to help those who were in need. I am not looking for crumbs from anyone's table. There is no need for that.
I am not looking to be a martyr. There is no gain in that. There is no gain in any of this for me. No, that would be a lie. I will know that at the end of his life I was there for him. Life didn't end up the way either of us wanted to, but it it what it is.
I believe there is a reason everything happens in life. There is a reason we met in the first place, one why we stumbled upon each other again. And still another why he is so ill.
I am not afraid to meet my maker at the end of my life. I was raised that God sees what you do, the good and the bad. And I do not fear a life review at all.
I guess each person has to decide for themselves how to live their life.
But, I am reading. Some of the posts have made me stop and think. Obviously there are many wonderful posters here who are passionate about helping people save marriages. Sadly, some just cannot be saved. It takes two to make a marriage work. I tried to make mine work. He tried to make his work. Neither my xH nor his W are interested in repairing or rebuilding.
Those who are attacking, that is ok, too. You are passionate about your beliefs, and that comes through. If your thoughts do not match mine in this situation, perhaps they match someone else or someone who is reading is helped by them. And perhaps in a different situation I might agree with you on some points, also.
FloodCity
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"Absolute morality" might elude YOU and the world's population of criminals, but it doesn't "elude" most thinking people. Our prisons are full of people with "flexible" morality, who can't judge right from wrong, and that is right where they belong. No..it doesn't. As none is GOD on this existence...it will ELUDE all...and even those on this thread who are the most vehemently attacking this woman. But you cannot speak for ALL, you can only speak for yourself. Are you admitting that you cannot DISCERN right from wrong? If you do not have the intelligence to discern right from wrong we need to know this so we can understand your mindset and your limitations. EVERYBODY is fornicating with anyone and anything over there. Heck...people over there are using the Butts as the new sexual organ!!!!!...???? Who am I to judge? Strange sick world...but it seems to be all the rage. That is not only immoral but downright disgusting. just an aside to how screwed up the world is hmmmm but didn't you just say above that you are NOT GOD and therefore not qualified to judge right from wrong? People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones, blah, blah, blah, blah..? Did you forget your own "principles" in the very same post? Is it possible that YOU are NOT wrong, and I am NOT Right...somewhere in the middle someone needs to see the light... Is that right? Or is that wrong? I am sooo confused!! Oh wait, we know dis trick in Texas! "if ya can't dazzle em with brilliance, befuddle em with bullsh**!" 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Floodcity: Nice to hear back from you. hmmmm but didn't you just say above that you are NOT GOD and therefore not qualified to judge right from wrong? People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones, blah, blah, blah, blah..? Did you forget your own "principles" in the very same post? ....so you admit ****edit******? Whatever floats yer boat....  Did you forget your own "principles" in the very same post? Nope. Is that right? Or is that wrong? I am sooo confused!! Oh wait, we know dis trick in Texas! "if ya can't dazzle em with brilliance, befuddle em with bullsh**!" ....sure must flush out some interesting specimens...but you would know more about that... As such...any "claims" to knowledge of Absolute Morality....are entirely suspect. ...prove me wrong. 
Last edited by JustUss; 09/05/08 01:42 PM. Reason: nasty
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As such...any "claims" to knowledge of Absolute Morality....are entirely suspect. ...prove me wrong. Thanks for being so honest about your inability to discern right from wrong; I will keep your handicap in mind when reading your posts. I hope in the future, though, you will remember your own professed limitations when casting judgment on posters here, lest you end up with all that YUCKY egg on your face. You might want to wipe that off before it dries, dear. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Dragon, do you have low IQ? Your reading comprehension is horrid, not to mention you are childishly vulgar.
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keepitreal, I think the girl is just a little cranky with all that egg on her face. Maybe she needs some bacon to go with those eggs? 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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keepitreal, I think the girl is just a little cranky with all that egg on her face. Maybe she needs some bacon to go with those eggs? I bet you're right!
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not to mention you are childishly vulgar. LOL....yeah... guiltyReading comprehension...??? That is not my problem. You TWO OWN that one....hands down. Since you're all so 'proud' of yourselves, jiggling about with your new found IQ's....Give ABSOLUTE MORALITY a spin....YOUR definitions would be most "illuminating"... Try NOT to choke yourselves in relativity or anything... 
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How about we focus on the subject of HYPOCRISY? A much more appropriate subject after reading your posts, dear. Listen up Snapdragon, it's not a good idea to contradict yourself in the SAME POST because even a half wit Texan with big hair can see it. If you are a hypocrite, it is much more clever to contradict yourself in OTHER POSTS so it won't be so noticable. Don't advertise your hypocrisy or people will snicker at you! For example, you said: "EVERYBODY is fornicating with anyone and anything over there. Heck...people over there are using the Butts as the new sexual organ!!!!!...???? Who am I to judge? Strange sick world...but it seems to be all the rage. That is not only immoral but downright disgusting. just an aside to how screwed up the world is" But you said earlier that: "Absolute Morality will forever elude us." And here you say something is "immoral" after you already told us that morality "will forever elude" you! Then you condemn judging and go onto make a judgment in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE. Some peoples notice DAT!  [and they giggle ] But it gets even more amusing when you end that very post, where you did judge and you did throw stones with: "HE/SHE who is without SIN tossing rocks...is living in a GLASS HOUSE" OOPS!! :teef: OH MY! My suggestion would be to be a little more SUBTLE if you are going to hoist yourself on your own petard! Hope this helps......
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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