This is just your perception, though, and not truth, right?

Wow how sad for your wife, and child I cant imagine how painful that must have been for them. The other posters here giving advice have a valid point and concerns sorry your upset but sometimes the truth hurts, but I am sure they could not nearly inflict as much pain as you have put your wife and daughter through. Tell me what advice would you give your daughter when she gets married and this happened to her? Also do you just want your wife back because a judge tore up your marriage license and you feel like you do not own her anymore? Well if this was my daughter I would tell her to steer clear of you, what you did was just cruel and horridly selfish and you just do not seem to get it. Just my opinion take it for what it is worth.

I'll be honest and admit that I skimmed through most of this, but it seems that Loving's use of the word 'expectation' is more along the lines of 'faith' ans oppossed to saying that his wife would be wrong not to respond to his actions and remarry him.

There is nothing wrong with having faith, and wanting to reconcile with your XW is a noble thing in most cases. Sure, you must come to terms with your mistakes of the past. Admit them to yourself and to God, find forgiveness, and change...which takes time. I get the need for the 2x4, but I got the feeling that Loving was aware of his mistakes, and how deeply he hurt his family. Maybe not, I don't know.

As for advice, not sure what you're struggling with. For me it's patience. Why isnt' this happening faster? That's when I read old emails where my wife explained how she felt and how she was hurt. Understand how she felt and how she feels as best you can, respect that pain, and understand it's going to take time if it happens at all.

Don't stop praying for what you want, but try and understand if things don't go the way you think it should.

This guy starts a thread to tell strangers that he wants his ex-wife back... but when his ex-wife asks him why he is being so nice, he says he is being nice with no strings attached, that I just want you to be happy with no conditions.

LoveNoMaterWhat:

You abandoned your family at the absolute worst time, the first two years of your daughter's life. You can't even be honest with your ex about why you are being so nice now.

You feel like you have made alot of progress? I am calling BS. Being nice to your ex-wife for two months before and three months after the divorce does not take away what you did IMHO. And judging by your ex-wife's quote above, it sounds like she agrees.

You are going to need more than faith, expectations and five months of being nice to get her back. And quit being such a pansy about all the responses you have received so far. You asked for our advise... now man up.

He's gotten very little advice, mostly just people telling him what a horrible person he is, despite the fact that he's admitted he was wrong and he doesn't owe an apology to anyone here.

LoveNoMaterWhat:

I don't kow if I can offer much advice as I am in a similar situation -- realizing how much I deeply hurt my husband and wishing I could get a "do over."

I came to this forum, like you, seeking advice on how to win my husband back now that I've woken up to my abusive behavior. I've gotten quite a few 2x4s and it did sting -- but if you keep an open mind, and reread those zinger posts -- you will come away with some insight into yourself. That insight may be an ugly truth but it is real.

I can't tell you how to proceed with your XW and I would love to come back onto this post a few months from now and see that you have reconciled. All you can do is pray and try to show her you've changed for real and hope that her love for you will flicker once again. That's what I am trying to do with my H.

I'll be praying for God to soften your wife's heart and yours as well.

Take Care,
MMM

He admitted he was wrong...in a very minimalist way.

"Ok, I was wrong, I admit it...but let's move past that and help me get what I want NOW".

IF...and I use that wrong strongly...IF this is how it played...

He abandoned her with a newborn. He was quite clear that he didn't want the baby.

Those two years he was living with a Guy friend...do you think he was celibate?

He would come in and out of his Wife's life (can you say...cake eater?)

He was in her life for booty calls... out of her life when something else came along.

She had enough. She realized that she didn't want a boy that would run from his obligations.

She got her life back on track...WITHOUT him..and it appears that all along he has EXPECTED to waltz right back in.

Personally, I think he should have the decency to leave her alone.

I only posted that he shouldn't EXPECT her to take him back.

committed

Great post, dkd...

I wanted to add one thing for LNMW.

Choose your actions, your goal (not expectation) and let the outcome go. Seems to me you are being radically honest and others do not like it. Be radically honest with your xW anyway.

Do it for who you are--your own code. Because you now know you chose to be a father, you are a father, and you want your family intact again.

It may be cowardice when you run away from what you thought you could...it takes huge cojones to admit to cowardice and act heroically, anyway.

Way to go. Stay true to your changes, hold yourself to acting from your choice to respect, love, accept...because that's who you are and you know you're brave because you're acting brave now.

Do not act to get a response...to get a certain outcome. Act as your amends, creating new habits to live from and know that we all fear...we learn to hold our fear and do the job, anyway.

LA

Who are you quoting? Did he actually say that?


Yes he did. And he realizes that.


I have no idea.



Sure. Ok. Again, he has realized that it was wrong to do so.


As I said, I interpreted that to mean that he had faith that things could work out with them. Not that he felt she would be in the wrong if she didn't take him back.


Under the assumption that he isn't going to change, but just manipulate her, then I agree. He has come here for advice. Having people tell him he's hopeless and won't change is not good advice. He does need to fully understand what he has done, how he hurt her, and how she doesn't have to take him back. He needs to learn how and change his behavior to be a good husband.

I personally have been told several times that I can't change, the things I've done that were a hurtful are just who I am...which is just utter crap. I haven't made the mistakes that he has, but I've done my fair share. Without a doubt, it takes understand the full extent of the damage caused, what you should have done, what you should do, and how long it's going to take for the damage to be repaired if at all.


That depends on how you look at it, as I stated above.

So if you truly want help...have you started seeing a counselor to find out where your abandonment issues came from? So that you can fix it? So that you never abandon your family again when the going gets tough?

If I were your ex, that would be the ONLY way I would consider letting you back into my life.

I was paraphrasing this:


He doesn't care to discuss WHY he did what he did.

History is doomed to repeat itself if he doesn't deal with it.



2 years he was in and out of her life. What makes this time any different that the last time he was "in" her life?

It isn't such a bad thing to tell him that it could be too late.

Because, it could be.

committed

ah...ok. I don't see how the two are the same, but ok.


How do you know he hasn't delt with it? And telling him to leave her alone is not the same as telling him to deal with it. It's basically saying that I don't think you're capable of dealing with it.


That's not what people have been saying. They're basically saying he's a jerk for what he's done and that he should just walk away in shame.

Because, the "I did it, let's move on" mentality doesn't support that premise.

He wants what he wants when he wants it.

He wants her NOW. He wants IN now that she wanted him OUT and put him OUT of her life.

He has been IN and OUT for 2 years.

She had a limit. We all have a limit. We aren't all doormats that are sit around, take it, and wait.

He still EXPECTS to get back together with her.

When he posts again...let's see what he has to say about those 2 years he was waltzing in and out.

committed

Hi everybody,

When I said expectation, I was referring to faith and hope. I am not demanding that my wife be with me. If my wife ultimately decides that she doesn't want to be with me, I don't think she would be wrong. Although I want to be reconciled with my ex-wife, I have to make this about her happiness, about her needs and hope that somewhere in the process she will see that I have changed. I cannot force her to want to be with me or make suggestions around her that she should get back with me. She has to want that for herself. I can only love her (as a verb) and hope that she one day will love me (the feeling as well as a verb)back. But even if she does not see the change or does not want to reconcile, I have to keep being there for her and my daughter.

okay, I will try to respond back to some of you and again - thank you all for the responses.



Life is a paradox. Although I do want to be back with my ex, if my sole purpose of being nice to her was just to be reconciled, then if we did get back together it would all go down the drain because my motive was about my needs. I am making this about her needs. So if she needs me to get her some medicine, run an errand for her or just be there to listen, then that is what I am going to do. If she decides that she doesn't want to reconcile, that is not going to stop me from being there for her and trying to do everything I can to make her happy. So when I tell her there are no conditions, there really are no conditions. My loving her is not dependent on how she responses to me. I am choosing to love and care for her because I love her irrespective of how she responds or feels about me.



I don't want a cheer but I don't want to hear that I should just give up either - that I shouldn't keep my hopes up because it will just cause me pain. This whole process is going to be painful. The journey back to reconciliation is never without pain or sacrifice, so I've come to accept that there will be pain, tears, and discouragement along the way. But at the same time, I believe that all those tears, disappointments, pain, etc will not be for nothing. That there is light at the end of the tunnel, no matter how far that light might be



In short, yes. Life is all about perception. As a man thinks, so is he. However, perception - how you view the world, what your belief system is, how you think about things, makes all the difference. Thoughts lead to actions which leads to destiny. So while I am just "perceiving", how I perceive will make a big difference on how my situation turns out.



This isn't about owning anybody or anything. Autonomy is a powerful thing and I've always respected that of my ex. As a father, I would want to protect my daughter and would probably tell her to steer clear of me too. What I did was selfish and cruel. That said, do I deserve a second change - no. But miracles do happen. I've heard of a couple of stories where the husband or wife did terrible things, got divorce and latter got remarried and are as happy as can be. I don't deserving anything but pain and suffering. But even the dogs get luckily and eat the crumbs off the table. So I have to hold on to hope.



I realized what a fool and selfish jerk I was. There is not a day where I do not regret what I did or hate the person I was. I know I hurt my family deeply and now I deserve all the hurt, pain, etc I am dealing with.




Thank you so much for those kind words. I have done a lot of praying and soul-searching. I will be praying for your situation too.



I never expected to just come back in, that everything would be as if it never happened. I have tried to make it clear that this is going to take a lot of patience, hard work, not giving up and most of all, making this about making my ex happy, even if she decides ultimately to not be with me



Thank you also for those kind words. I will take heed. I will be a man of character, not because I want my wife back, but because that is the right thing to do.




yes I was celibate.



Thanks again for those words of encourage. Like I have stated, my ex and I have been progress (although it is hard to tell if progress is being made at times). Slowly, she is starting to trust me again - but I must be trustworthy before I can be trusted - and that is going to take time to build. I did get upset at people who where basically telling me that it is hopeless and that I/situation won't change. I don't need a forum to feel hopeless, I do a pretty good job myself at feel discouraged. I come her for advice and also for a listening ear. This is reconciliation process is a dance in the sense that you are always evaluating what steps to take and not take - and that is not always easy, especially when the inside of you wants to tell her how much you love her and you have to hold that back in.



I am seeing a counselor, although I have not told my ex about it. I don't know what she would think and I don't want her to think that I am only going there because I want her back (that would sound selfish). I am also reading like crazy. I never want to be the person I use to be.



Why I did it. I was young, stupid and selfish. Back then, I thought education, work, advancement was important. I was selfish and didn't realize that all the little sacrifices family life requires are worth it all. When it was just my wife and I, things between us were great. I did everything for her - we talked a lot at night, did stuff together and were overall very close to each other. When we had our daughter, that was an eye opener and I didn't know how to handle the situation. I ran off like a coward. Growing up, I didn't have a father, so maybe that contributed some. But regardless of why I did it, I was wrong and have no excuses. All I know is that my eyes have been open. All the sacrifices and commitment that a family requires are worth it.



I don't want her NOW - although that would be great. The truth is, I want us to be reconciled when and if we are both ready. She needs to be whole and I need to be whole for the reconciliation to be a success.


Okay,
I think that is enough to digest. Please keep the post going and I will talk to you all later.

Thanks

Boy, oh boy. You registered 8/31/08 and you are telling us what THIS forum is ABOUT and what YOU EXPECT?

A good friend does NOT tell you what you want to hear!!! :twobyfour:

Let alone "this forum"!

You are being told what you NEED to hear, only you don't like it!

Buy HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS, read the book, you'd be mileage ahead. Oh and check out the articles Why Women Leave Men and about Love Busters. Be versed in the Basic Concepts of this website. That should get you started............

This is a good thing. Good luck. I hope that your sessions help you to become the man that you want to be.


An vital ingredient in a good relationship is respect. Respect your X's wishes. You don't have to be married to have a good relationship with your X and your daughter.

"I also realize that in the end, it is a real possibility that I can devote some much energy in trying to get my ex-wife back and in the end, still not have her. That would be devastating, but that is the risk I have to take and I will be a better person for trying."

You are not necessarily "a better person for trying" since what you are trying to achieve is for your own benefit, for a sepcific goal that you want (for now anyway). You have a selfish motive behind your actions, don't you? You only started to 'give' them these 'extras' when you wanted them back in your life, right?

What percentage of what you are giving and doing for your ex-wife and daughter would continue if she made it clear to you that she would never remarry you? What percentage of what you are doing/giving do you feel they really are entitled to even if it doesn't pay off as you hope?

You apparently assumed that telling us you give them 30-some-percent of your paycheck would make you sound extremely generous... Let me give you a clue as to how your ex-wife sees your 'generosity': You were a family of 3, 1 of you left because he he didn't want to grow up and take responsibility for the 3rd family member, and now that 1 keeps 2/3 of his paycheck for himself and 'gives' 1/3 of his paycheck back to the other 2... AND hopes his 'generosity' is buying him something too?

I have 3 daughters. Their WF (Wayward Father) sometimes give them 'extra' money too... According to him they don't show enough gratitude for that. This is how they see it: We were a family of 5, he left and took with him all but a fraction of the family income. When he 'gives' some of that back, they just see it as him giving back a little of what he selfishly TOOK from them.

I suggest that you ONLY say/do/give to your wife and daughter what you truly feel they are entitled to, what you feel they deserve even if it never pays off for you in any way. Acknowledge that you were being selfish and cruel to take away from them what they deserved and needed, instead of expecting/hoping that what you're giving back to them now will be seen as a 'gift' or worse, down payment for something YOU want from them. If you had done the right thing, had stood by your wife and baby instead of running away to play teeny-bopper slumber party at your friend's place, 100% of you paycheck would have been invested into your family, right? THAT is the perspective of your ex-wife and daughter, that is the truth.

(BTW is that creep, the guy who helped you run away form your responsibility and destroy your marriage and family, still your friend?)

Your wife sees that you've changed BECAUSE you have a specific goal. IF/when you find out that your efforts are not going to buy for you what YOU WANT, will you continue to spend the same amount of time and money on your ex-wife and daughters as you do now? For that matter, if your tactics pay off and your wife does take you back will you keep up the same level of effort you are displaying now?

You haven't really changed if your #1 priority is still to get what you want. Your wife is probably too smart to fall for your temporary campaign. She probably realizes that you only want what you can't have, but once you get it you'll want to escape from your responsibiities again.

I think it's telling the way you describe how happy it makes YOU FEEL to spend time with your daughter. Where were you when your daughter and wife needed you? Camping out at your friend's house like a little boy.

You explain (ratonalize?) your excuses for abandoning your wife and baby girl rather casually IMHO. Currently YOU WANT them back in YOUR life... The common denominator is that you want what you want and don't really care what they need and deserve, let alone want. When you want freedom from responsibility you run away; when you want to feel happy you use your little girl's presence to get that for yourself.

The change that needs to happen - I don't see that (and apparently neither does your wife).

If she's smart she will marry a man who she can rely on, no matter what his wants du jour are, a man who will provide for her and her daughter what they need because he actually acknowledges that they deserve to be cared for.\

Also, now that your ex-wife has done the work of raising a baby by herself, now that your daughter isn't an infant anymore, now that your daughter is old enough to GIVE YOU love and attention... NOW you want your daughter in your life?

Another poster said:
"what you did was just cruel and horridly selfish and you just do not seem to get it."
IMHO what you are still doing is cruel and horribly selfish, and you just don't seem to get it. Your current campaign started when you needed/wanted them back in your life, not when THEY needed/wanted you.

This post should make everybody happy since no one believes in me or just wants me to suffer and pay for my sins. I am so discouraged that I feel like giving up. I am in so much pain and I hate myself so much right now. Maybe I should just let go and let everyone here say I told you so.

So how are things going with your ex right now?

Hi believer,

Things b/t my ex and I have been going well. During the day she calls me and tells me how her day is going. We also talk when she is driving home from work as it takes her 45 minutes to get home. We also go out to eat for dinner about 2-3 times a week. Our conversations are great - it is just like old times where we talk about anything and everything. We normally talk right before we go to bed also and will txt each other. I also started to give her little gifts here and there (nothing lovely dovely) and she appreciates that. However, today I really screwed up. We were talking on the phone and the conversation was going well when I got into the topic of telling her how much I want her back into my life. I have been doing real well these last few months with not bringing up the topic of our relationship, but today I was missing her so bad that I blew it. She took it well though. She told me basically that there was no chance and that I need to get over it. That was real stupid of me. I have been real good at holding my emotions in and trying to really focus on her irrespective of how I am feeling. Afterwards, we went to dinner and acted as if nothing happend - it was a nice dinner.

That said, I have been trying to make everything I do an expression of love and not about an expression of need like I did today. I felt really discouraged when I got home and was mad at myself for what I said. But like I said in previous posts, our conversations have been good and we still call each other by our pet names. Our conversations are not superficial either - she tells me about her worries, whats happening with her family, etc.

I know that trusts is going to take a very long time to rebuild and lots of patience on my end is going to be needed. I am really trying to make this about her happiness and not get caught up with what I want - which is not an easy thing to do

I love my ex so much and I do want us to be a family again. But like I said, I am trying really hard to focus on her needs and just being there for her as a supportive friend. She told me told that although we are divorce, that she considers us more than just friends (although not in an affectionate/romantic way).

I will post later - but that is the short end of why I was so down.

Thanks