Nowis,

You can count if you like. But, I think you are learning something and that is YOU have the power to make this marriage wonderful, you have the power to make this marriage enjoyable to you and your H. You have the power because your H is supportive of you and loves you. This frees you to simply fight with yourself and not yourself AND him.

Let me tell you of one of the most important days in my life with respect to relationships. I was 16 years old and I lived on a military base with my family. We moved constantly as did everyone else. One day, my best friend came to me and told me the girl he used to date in Japan was coming through with her family as they transfered to another base.

Now I had heard about this girl. Oh man had I heard about her. According to my friend she was simply the most beautiful girl in the world bar none, and he was a ladies man for his time. Far more into datin girls and successful getting dates than I.

He asked if I wanted to go over and meet this girl as their family was staying at the Visiting Officers Quarters. So we walked over. He knocked on the door, and this girl's mother answered. She recognized my friend and after a lot of hugs, "how is the family", etc. this girl came out...

She was cute, but she was not beautiful. We walked around the base, took in a movie, ate something and then took her back. The girl we left at the door that evening was THE MOST BEAUTIFUL GIRL I HAD EVER SEEN.

What changed??? It was her personality, it was the way she carried herself, it was how she met people, she was quite simply the whole package.

Now why did I tell you this shaggy dog story??? It is a story of perspective, it is a story of seeing more than is immediately obvious. It is an event that changed my life and how I looked at women. It is really why I ended up with my W instead of the models, flight attendants, etc. that I dated all over the world.

My point is perspective IS EVERYTHING and as you change yours, shape yours, and see more than you have seen, I think you have little to worry about with regard to your H. He sounds like the complete package. He talks, he changes, he admits his mistakes and he loves you. And you have the power to make him see you as I ended up seeing my friends old girl friend that day.

Think about it.

God Bless,

JL

You too have been in a crisis. And you have done some great work.

I will share a story with you. I used to be on volunteer ambulance. My first few calls were very educational. I soon learned that in a crisis:
1) You are not always in control
2) There is only so much you can do
3) HELP where you can
4) I am not ommipotent
5) Sometimes bad things happen to good people
6) Not to get emotionally involved because then you can't help effectively

I had to learn to control my anger when a drunk would hit a stationwagon with a family. I had to control my mind so I could operate effectively.

The mind is a powerful thing. It can be trained. A person can change the way you look at things.

Just like JL pointed out. Perception is very powerful. You are changing your perception of your husband. And as JL says you have someone who loves you. Get on your knees and thank God for the blessing He has bestowed upon you, your story could be very different. You could be alone and lonely, and be left to repeat the same mistakes with someone else. Root out the weeds in your life. That is what I have to do. That is really what we all have to do the rest of our days. I like the hypocratic oath "Do no harm". A good approach to life. Unfortunately I have been clumbsy in my life, I did not have good role models or coaches to follow, and learn from. There is a price to pay. But it is NEVER too late to change.

When JL mentioned that you should watch an older couple on the ways they learned to communicate, the shorthand signals and the intimacy they have built. Is that not a wonderful picture? What a thing to aspire to. You have that opportunity. You have been afforded much mercy and grace by your husband. I hope you never forget it. That is such a gracious thing to do, it is a sign of incredible strength and is very honouring to you. He has honoured you instead of trying to punish you. I see by some of your other posts that you fully get that and that is great. But you need to program your brain to remember how you have been honoured by him. Every time you slip into stinky thinking (and it will happen, stinky thinking is like a burr in a blanket) you have to think about the grace you have been given. The continual attitude of thankfulness will help you. You have much to be thankful for.

Agape love is - To choose to do the highest good for someone else without any expected return. This is the love your husband has given you.

JL is giving you such wise advice. You are very fortunate. I hope you absorb fully what he is telling you. In my opinion he has laid out a banquet for you, and what he has told you has the potential to change your life forever. These are the things you need to focus on and implement.

NOW IS THE MOMENT.

May God continue to bless you and guide you.

Nowis

A friend of mine sent me this and I thought it would be appropriate to share this with you considering what you have been going through.

I Believe

A Birth Certificate shows that we were born.

A Death Certificate shows that we died.

Pictures show that we lived!

Relax. And read this slowly.

I believe - That just because two people argue, it doesn't mean
they don't love each other. And just because they don't argue, it
doesn't mean they do.

I believe - That we don't have to change friends if we understand
that friends change.

I believe - That no matter how good a friend is, they're going to
hurt you every once in a while and you must forgive them for that.

I believe - That true friendship continues to grow, even over the
longest distance. Same goes for true love.

I believe - That you can do something in an instant that will give
you heartache for life.

I believe - That it's taking me a long time to become the person I
want to be.

I believe - That you should always leave loved ones with loving
words. It may be the last time you see them.

I believe - That you can keep going long after you think you
can't.

I believe - That we are responsible for what we do, no matter how
we feel.

I believe - That either you control your attitude or it controls
you.

I believe - That heroes are the people who do what has to be done
when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences.

I believe - That money is a lousy way of keeping score.

I believe - That my best friend and I can do anything or nothing and
have the best time.

I believe - That sometimes the people you expect to kick you when
you're down, will be the ones to help you get back up.

I believe - That sometimes when I'm angry I have the right to be
angry, but that doesn't give me the right to be cruel.

I believe - That maturity has more to do with what types of
experiences you've had and what you've learned from them and less to
do with how many birthdays you've celebrated.

I believe - That it isn't always enough to be forgiven by others.
Sometimes you have to learn to forgive yourself.

I believe - That no matter how bad your heart is broken the world
doesn't stop for your grief.

I believe - That our background and circumstances may have
influenced who we are, but we are responsible for who we become.

I believe - That you shouldn't be so eager to find out a secret.
It could change your life forever.

I believe - Two people can look at the exact same thing and see
something totally different.

I believe - That your life can be changed in a matter of hours by
people who don't even know you.

I believe - . That even when you think you have no more to give,
when a friend cries out to you - you will find the strength to help.

I believe - That credentials on the wall do not make you a decent
human being.

I believe - That the people you care about most in life are taken
from you too soon.

Excuse me as I mean no offense to the posters thinking they are trying to help this woman. First of all she married a man she had no serious feelings for, bore him three children, sex makes her ill and you are making her out to be the victim? Gag., Wow are people so easy to manipulate she has you right were she wants you "oh boo who , who my husband is a good man and made me have an affair". Can you say cake eater and gold digger, user? I see this person wants so bad her husband to change into the animal sex slave she had an affair with but could never measure up in her eyes as she is selfish,, also what real changes has she made? If I was any respecting husband I would kick her selfish butt to the curb and make her grovel for forgiveness. This is just my opinion.

Nowis,

I just want to let you know how much your sharing has helped me as well. I don't really post, just read a lot, but I felt I needed to speak up finally to tell you that your journey has really encouraged me in my marriage, and I really enjoy reading what bcboy and JL have been posting to you.

Keep up the good work!

This is good stuff bcboy. Simple, but very true. I think I have read this somewhere before but it's nice to hear again.

You know bcboy, these are good points even in everyday stressful situations. Particularly if you feel as though you can become overwhelmed. It has served you well.

The stuff of the mind is huge for me. I am aware of it everyday. Ireally do have to work at it. You have me pegged. I needed to hear it again today too. I am being vigilant right now. Checking myself and connecting in. I remember the MC saying once to my H and I that if people wanted something badly enough they could change. Change their patterns and behaviors. I thought it was off. How can a person change what is essentially their personality. I didn't believe it. I told her it was wrong - no-one should have to try and change who they are. The MC said if they want it badly enough - they can and will change. So here I am.

Thank you for posting turtlegal.

I appreciate it very much and your timing was good. I'm glad you are getting something from this thread. JL reminded me and bcboy the other day that people were reading. I forget about that.

I wish you well and every success in your marriage.

JL

Thanks for the "shaggy dog(!) story".

You have so many encouraging and insightful things to say. bcboy is right when he refers to the "banquet" you have laid out.



I needed to hear about perspective again today. Particularly as there can be numerous days that my H and I just don't get to spend much time together. Distance creeps in and I start to disconnect. Stinky thinking is triggered. You end up meeting in bed at the end of the day but by then stinky thinking and skewed perspective has me well and truly sabotaged. So everyday I'm working on it. Doggedly sticking to it. I would never have believed I could get these real and positive results.

There must be some form of motivation. I think I heard from one of the spy novels I was reading that it only took 7 - 10 days to effectively brainwash someone. Isn't that what change is essentially? We finally determine the old habit or old way has to go and we force the change. Is it easy? No change is always resisted. Is it impossible? No it is never impossible. The rate of change is proportional to the motivation factor. Kids learn this from touching a hot stove or experiencing pain. We quickly learn to stop the actions that cause us pain.

Somewhere you have had a payoff for your past behaviour (stinky thinking). Understanding what that payoff was helps in the change process. You need to make the changes while you have the motivation. Currently you are vigilent, eventually we tend to slack off because it seems like so much effort so you will have to beware of that. Commit to being vigilent until the change is completed.

Glad to hear you want to change badly enough.

I see your name is well suited to you, I am sorry to hear you are experiencing such pain. I hope one day you will experience forgiveness and mercy and the anger you feel will be replaced by peace and contentment. Good luck in your search.

Nowis,

BCB, mentioned brainwashing when talking about change. I mention perspective, you feel people cannot change who they are at the core.

I think you are missing something very important. My father used to tell me "son, the two great motivators in life are fear and greed. If you run into someone that appears not to be motivated by these two things, stay away from they are dangerous."

For years I thought he was being cynical. Perhaps he was, but I learned he was right. What we fear, what we desire motivate us, and if we don't understand what these things are we are lost: morally, personally, and in relationships. You think your core is what you want or fear. I think you are one level off.

At the base are you someone who likes to help people?
At the base are you someone who prefers to smile rather than cry?
Do you prefer pleasure more than pain?
Do you desire to protect and nuture your children?

These are base features of who you are. Everything else is preception. Perception can be changed. When one sets about to brainwash someone, they go about it in a variety of ways, but all of them include changing the persons perception of who they are, where they are, how they stand in the universe (which is a small contained space.) With changes in perception comes changes in how we see things.

People are motivated to change when they realize that change is for the better. People always solve problems when they decide they really need to or the walk away from the problem thus rendering it "not their problem." I won't debate which is best. People "play" with problems when they don't really care to solve them or the "play" meets some need of theirs.

Most people do things they perceive to be getting something they want or protecting them from something they fear. Your behavior in the past is based on you perceiving it to serve you in some way. The discussions on this site have been peoples attempt to show you a different way to look at things, and to show you that you will better get what you need and avoid what you fear by turning toward your H and learning to give and receive love. In the past your perceptions have indicated this was not productive. Our perception indicates it will be productive for you.

So you are changing, but not your core. You are changing what you see around you, where the dangers may lie, the where the rewards may come from. As you see these things differently, you will naturally act differently because your path to acheive what you want, and protect yourself is not seen as being different.

Does this make sense? If you were a evil person, you will remain one. If you have simply done something evil, you can stop doing that. There is a big difference.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

JL

Yes, this makes sense to me now. Yes, I can see the distinction. Who you are at the core is set but how you grow and are shaped is influenced by many things including your perception. So now I can see how it works for my H and I. Yes, I would say that at our core, we are good people. Habits, patterns, influences, etc from over the years can be changed. They are the things that are worked on. All the baggage and rubbish that has accumulated can truly be dealt with and new habits can be put in place. I see what the MC was saying now.

I'm feeling it right now. The work of it all. I'm motivated to change, that's absolutely certain. It's a road and a half! I'm sticking to my plan and like the effects of all the small and big changes. From speaking differently to acting differently. However, it occurs to me that now I have moved into the 'knuckling down' stage of things. Those feelings inside can be sooo stubborn to change. I'm seeing what other people mean by the honeymoon stage and it being over.

Quite honestly, it's been the hardest thing I've done in my life in a long while. I've noticed too that in the hardest moments it seems that my needs 'shout' even more. This is my head dialogue: Hard moment - 'why doesn't he do something nice for me?'. Hard moment - 'why doesn't he help out more?'. Hard moment - 'I'm not sure we're going to make it because I'm no good at loving'. Do you see what I mean? Just what I'm feeling. They're just feelings, I know.

Sooo, on a positive, my H was busy on the computer and announced to me that he was trying to set up a special wedding anniversary surprise for us?!?!**!! Could I arrange childcare for the children for a couple of days. This is really significant. We haven't celebrated our anniversary for 3 years. We let it slide by for obvious reasons. So I felt good about that. Our marriage is beginning to mean something again. Something we are both invested in again.

And here you thought the honeymoon was over. This is incredible for you. This is a time to rejoice. Celebrate this with all your heart. (And the crowd stands and applauds as they watch the homerun hitter heading for home plate). Sounds to me like the love is beginning to flow.
Not easily done, but able to be done.

So if you understand the payoff for those feelings you will be able to change them easier. You cannot change what you don't acknowledge. Somehow you developed habits because there was a payoff for behaving or feeling a certain way. Find the root of that and you will find the change easier.

Yes it is but in doing so you have avoided going through a much harder thing. The lonliness, anger, guilt, depression, sadness, emptiness of a failed relationship.

Your relationship was dead, it now has a pulse and heading for recovery. How fortunate you are. Everytime you even think of getting discouraged about how much work it is you need to think about how much pain you would be in if you did not initiate the changes you have.

Look at it on the bright side. Life is nothing but change, it is getting stuck that is really painful. Once you get moving and in the habit of changing and adapting it gets easier. You have been stuck and now you are reaping the benefits of being unstuck (your relationship is growing).


They are feelings. Are they accurate? I don't think so. These are stinky! This is poison. Call the poison control centre when this happens, the antidote that might work for you is thankfulness. Mr Grandfather used to tell me that if your bucket is full of happy thoughts there is no room for negative thoughts. Was he wise or just an old man who didn't really grasp the gravity of the situation?

So how many times a day are you stopping and saying out loud to yourself what you are thankful for?
Today I am thankful for
1) a husband who loves me
2) being blessed with children
3) an improving marriage
4) friends on MB that care about my marriage (JLs wisdom)
5) the ability to change
6) having a warm house to sleep in
7) food in the fridge
8) my children did not go to bed hungry
and the list needs to go on and on and on and on...

In everything give thanks

God Bless you and your family

Nowis,

And your reward for thinking as you stated is?
It seems to me that thinking this way would make life very miserable. Frankly, I cannot imagine being married and thinking like this. Life is toooo short. These thoughts are not productive, they are not real and they sure don't seem to be much fun. You can be good a loving, I would bet you are good a loving. Your H knows something is inside of you that is very valuable or he would not be sticking around. Why not trust your H on this matter. If he complains he needs more loving, trust him and give it to him. Trust yourself to tell him when you need more loving.

Have fun loving your H and letting him love you, not everything has to be analyzed. It simply has to be experienced, and revered.

You are doing OK Now is, just keep finding ways to enjoy your life. Oh! and when the kids are gone, guess who is going to be complaining that they are not around and causing you extra work??? That would be YOU! YOu are complaining that you need more help and soon you will be complaining they are gone and don't need you. Be thankful for what you have been given, it is more than you realize.

God Bless,

JL

nowis, have you ruled out depression? Do you get regular exercise?

bc


I understand that you cannot change what you don't acknowledge. However, I don't know what the payoffs were/are for behaving or feeling a certain way. This will take some introspection. I just don't know.



I was thinking last night that a lot of what people are going through (post D-day etc), we went through on our own, more or less, a couple of years ago. We weathered a lot with no real help. I felt all those things. I moved out for a short time too. A lot of those feelings I've been acutely familiar with for a lot of my life. So, anyway, somehow we survived it. The reason (divine intervention?) that I moved back in was this. We decided to stick with our family Christmas vacation in BC(!). Our last couple of days there my H got really sick resulting in a short hospital stay on our return home. I moved back in. At that point we said "what's the point in my leaving again?". The children were happy. We realized we were all we had - all our family and life long friends being in the UK.

Why the heck I'm going on about this stuff, I've no idea - but there it is.



Everyday bc, everyday. It is my reality and how I stay connected and present in my life.

Thanks bc. I hope you continue to find inner strength each day.

JL

Yes, bc said this too. What's the payoff? What's the reward? I'm going to have to nail that down and deal with it. Yes, it's ridiculous as I have lots to be grateful for. My general disposition and interactions with others are always cheerful and warm. My H says, and others say, how warm and friendly I am and that I have a good heart. I guess there's a dark side in there somewhere...lol. Just crackpot, crappy thinking I suppose.

Yes, too much analysis is not good. Am trying to stay with the KISS technique. Believe in myself, believe in my marriage and just get on with it - I have the keys.

JL and bc - am soooo grateful. You've both been brilliant!

Thanks for asking EO.

Having had a few bouts of depression in the past, I am aware that I am susceptible to it. Exercise has been my outlet for many years. I have never done drugs, never smoked, got drunk (only twice in my life). I have 3 brothers, 2 of which are currently struggling with addiction.

However, the endorphins I get from exercise have been key. I ran a lot and eventually had to stop as my hips were grinding away. (Congenital hip dysplasia). I discovered yoga 4 years ago and love that and not long ago completed my first teacher training in yoga. I had my second hip surgery May 1st, been doing water therapy and have begun yoga therapy this last month. Recovery is going well, but TOO slow for me. Working on my marriage, children and moving house are my distractions right now.

So that's the long and short of it. It could be that whilst I am not using up much energy or physically doing much I am much more prone to negative thinking and feelings?

It's a tough thing to make a marriage work when you made the decision as a very young person...maybe someone very different from who you are now. Many churches focus on a woman's duty to have sex with her husband rather than a woman's sexual satisfaction. This lays the groundwork for mutual dissatisfaction (no pun intended).

But it doesn't sound like he just doesn't satisfy you sexually. Have you asked yourself why you're married to your husband? It sounds like you're not attracted to him anymore. Is it more than just superficial aspects like his lack of assertiveness?

I would imagine that at this stage in his life, he is who he is.

It also kind of seems you're looking for someone to give you a push. Don't do that. Unpeel the onion and see what's really going on. Maybe he's just not your guy.