Sound counsel, pom ... Noname, you may think some of this is redundant, but its very easy to slide back into old habits ... we're just keeping you focused on being the "old" confident and independent Noname that your WW originally fell in love with. REMEMBER ... NO CLINGINESS!!!

Also, I like the fresh fish idea ... you may have already considered this, but how about making it a fun family cook out. Do you have a fire ring at this cabin? ... how about buying some (or make your own) special fish batter and frying the fish outside over the open fire? That way everyone is involved and having quality family time.

It also provides you a priceless opportunity to show off your "manly" hunter/gatherer skills, plus your great Dad skills by sharing with your girls the whole lake to plate experience.

Sorry if I'm recycling some of our favorite things, but we LOVE doing this and it does appear that FogFree and your WW have a lot of common interests, so maybe this will work for you too.

I missed the whole thing this morning when I called. I never thought about it. Next time she starts talking about her life I will just repeat what she says but not get into it with her. Thanks, I needed the reminder.

We will be cooking the fish outside as a family. It should be some good family time.

I'm always monitoring her email now. Her Aunt that she had a talk with on Saturday just emailed her to see how things were going. Here it is I just want to get your opinions.

OM1 is from another state. This is the one who she had the EA with. OM2 is from high school I don't think much was going on yet with him from what I have found. It seemed they were just friends but from her email below I'm glad I caught it now.

Don't worry about I don't care what my Mom knows I have pretty much told her everything she just isn't willing to accept that it might not be able to be fixed so I get frusturated with talking to her. Plus I know you won't go and tell her word for word what we talked about. The week is going okay. I have a good day and then a bad day. The good thing isn't I haven't talked to OM1 or OM2 so that makes things a little less complicated. OM1 has been on my mind again but I know I can't call him and it's over I just wonder if he misses me like I miss him....... For know I am putting my best foot forward and I'm gonna try to make this work. I'm not sure if I am going to put a time frame on it or just see how it goes... Thanks for asking and thanks again for talking with me it was helpful....

Noname,

I've really been pulling for you, and I know how hard you're trying, but this really has to knock the wind out of your sails.

This is your life ... rather than me offering up my opinion ... which wouldn't be very positive ... what is YOUR opinion about this revelation from your WW?

I can see that she is not in contact with him so that is good. I don't really know what to think. She misses him, I know she was really hooked on him. Her and I have talked about this. The last contact between them was on June 8th. I don't know if this is withdrawal. The week or so before last Saturday I guess we had been talking about what she had done a fair amount and that probably wasn't the best way for her to get past him. I don't know, it also tells me that the effort I am putting forth right now isn't making deposits in her bank yet.

It confuses and pisses me off at the same time. I don't know. I'm going home now. I will be happy and act like my old self tonight and this weekend. I will check in tonight to read any responses.

NoName,

FogFree and I discussed this recent development last night and quite frankly we are very concerned that your WW is still dealing with feelings for the OM 2 1/2 months after NC was supposed to be established.

Is it possible that NC has been broken?

Does your WW know that you post here?

Would your WW be interested in reaching out to FogFree, as it appears that they have quite a few interests in common, and maybe she'd feel safer speaking with someone who has experienced the same thing and would be completely non-judgmental and anonymous?

I've added our email address to my signature below ... it is an account that we set up specifically to communicate with fellow MBers and both of us have access to it.

We were just brainstorming to try to come up with something that may help ... it's an open invitation if you think it may help, but totally your option.

Also, if you have anything you like to just vent about offline, feel free to use the email account to contact me if you would like. If you do, I'd like to ask you a non-A related question (offline) about a little personal tid-bit of info you posted earlier ... I may be off, but we may have more in common geographically than you are aware.

I'm really sorry your still dealing with this level of "fog" this long after NC.

I agree with MyRev and FF...I would be really surprised if June 8 was last contact based on her email(it sounds like she is just recently started the WD process). I'm guessing your WW was probably somehow still in contact through BF. Only pointing this out so you have your eyes wide open and aren't devestated by another revelation.

That being said, IMO it is normal for early WD and as long as she continues NC, she should start to feel better as she "de-fogs".

A couple of questions since you have indicated your WW has committed to trying to R:
Has she agreed to be transparent?
Did you two discussed boundaries with the toxic BF who was supporting and encouraging your W's wayward behavior?

Hang in there. It sounds like you are getting great support from MyRev and FF.

I really don't think there has been contact with OM. His name had been brought up a few times a couple weeks ago. This may have had something to do with her thinking about him again. It is possible that they have been in contact I just don't think there has been any contact. I could be wrong though I was before.

As far as her BF goes we have discussed boundries. I don't want her going out to the bars with her. My wife agrees with that but I don't really know how long she can stick to it. They were in a golf league together on Tuesdays that ended last week, so other than their banquet for the league that is done. For the past couple weeks I am comfortable with her and BF relationship.

As far as my wife being transparent she said she has nothing to hide and will allow me access to her phone and email. I see this stuff anyways without her knowing about it. I am always checking her cell phone. I have her email password and the keylogger installed. She said I could see it all but I would rather continue to do it without her knowing. I feel I can see more if she doens't know I'm looking.

My wife did know I posted here in the past. I don't think she knows I am posting here again. She thought it was dumb before, even though it has helped me to cope with this crap. If she wanted to find my thread I would think she could figure it out, but I don't think she cares to look for it. It's my thing and she leaves it alone. I always cover my tracks at home so she can't find where I have been.

I would love it if she would reach out to FogFree. I just don't know how to bring it up. For now we are keeping the relationship talk to a minimum. If the opportunity presents itself I will mention it to her. The fact it would be anonymous may be appealing to her.

I'm curious what I posted earlier that we have more in common geographically.

A thought on real friends vs unreal ones:

About 2 years ago my ex's former best friend (might be current, I don't know anymore) became a big source of emotional support for me while I dealt with the shock of the infidelity and the divorce.

She and I talked all the time and there was absolutely no interest at all in any way between us other than just friendship and support.

Our interaction was limited to several cell phone calls a week.

BUT, her husband got uncomfortable.

She told me that he was uncomfortable and that she had to stop talking to me.

What did I do?

I told her that i could understand how he felt and respected his wishes.

Haven't talked to her since.

She's a good woman and he's a great guy, but I have to respect his boundary. I miss the friend I had, in that she was someone I could talk to, but I have a whole new set now that have filled that void.

So a real friend would respect your wife's desire to attempt to fix her marriage and would respect the limit on going out to bars.

They can still be friends without that.

Perhaps you can assist by running interference. What days and times does she normally go out bar-hopping with her BF? Take her out to a movie then. Or a quick dinner. Or something else entirely.

If this seems to be a weak boundary for your (F)WW, there's nothing stopping you from assisting her with it.

We had a pretty good weekend overall. We didn't catch enough fish for supper on Friday night but we had a good time anyways. We took our time to the cabin and stopped for ice cream on the way. No fish for supper so we grilled hamburgers.

Saturday wife and I went golfing. Had a fun time, I didn't pressure anything. Kind of kept my distance and just had fun together. At one point while we were walking she moved closer to me and kissed me. I think this is the first time other that good night or good bye that she has kissed me in months. It was genuine and really nice. We had lunch at a little bar in town and then played some games and had a couple drinks before heading back to the cabin. She enjoyed herself, we laughed and joked around.

On Saturday night we were playing a game with her parents and they both got up and left the room for a minute. My wife kind of flirted with me. Just fun stuff that we couldn't do with her parents in the room. It was just goofing around like we used to do before we got married.

Overall it was a very good weekend. I had a couple moments where I talked about stuff the made me look needy. They were short but I wish I could take them back. I spent most of the weekend doing my own thing and letting her come to me.

I agree that if she is a real friend she will respect my wife's desire to want to fix her marriage. As long as she respects this boundary of mine I can accept their friendship. My wife and I have been friends with this BF and her H since before we got married.

BF and her husband are split up currently. I know the schedule for when BF has her kids so I try and plan things on those days. My wife has been good about the bar thing lately though. Now that BF is split from her H the bar time had cut down a lot. BF used living at home with H as an excuse to want to get away. Now that they aren't together she doesn't call as often to go out.

BF is a problem for me. I have set my boundaries for that friendship and as of now my wife is respecting them.

Last night seemed to go fine at home. I was not in a very good mood last night or this morning. For some reason I am really mad at my wife. I don't know what brought this on but I just can't seem to let it go. I don't really feel that she has paid for what she has done. She has said she is sorry and says she wishes she could take it back. But for some reason I don't think she really means it.

Last night I tried my best to not let on that something was bothering me. I went out and did some yard work so that I wasn't around her. I don't think she noticed anything was bothering me.

I just don't trust her at all and really feel like she is lying to me again. I really get this feeling of hating her. I don't have anything to go off of to think this I just feel it in my gut. Maybe I'm off, hopefully I am but I'm just having trouble letting it go today.

I just need to write some crap down this morning.

NoName,

Honest question ... I KNOW that you're mad at your WW ... but are you also mad at yourself???

I was definately HURT by FogFree's poor choices and MAD about the accompanying lies, but I was also mad at MYSELF for going against what I had always said I would do in this situation. However, I felt better about myself when I stood up for myself and I've been trying to get that message across for several pages of posts now.

Somehow you have to tap into that inner rage to stoke your courage up and establish some firm boundaries. Like ...


"I will NOT remain in a marriage where I am not respected by my wife. We can work together on the issues that got us to this point, but I refuse to be disrespected with more lies"

... and then be prepared to ask her to leave the marital home if she will not commit to R or continues to lie to you. You have to shake up the status quo and take back some measure of control over YOUR life. She is not going to be one of those WW that comes back willingly ... you are going to have to make her face the reality of her poor choices.

I have said those things to her but I haven't followed up on any of it. For those reasons yes I have a hard time living with myself right now. I know I have got to stop letting her walk all over me.

She refuses to leave the home and I don't want to leave either. With that I don't know what to do. I have made arrangements for myself to leave and stay at my sisters if it comes to that. I just don't want to be the one to leave home. I am the more stable parent for our girls right now.

I have been writing some things down at work here today about this very thing. I have prepared some financial arrangments for when we split. The thing is we don't make enough money for us to have 2 places to live. I have been trying to find a second job here lately so that I can make sure my girls are taken care of. My WW I honestly don't give a crap about her.

Well I have found my F-it button and pushed it.

I found the OM from high schools phone number. She has said they were just friends and from the email I have seen that is all it is. But she cannot be confiding in another man. I was going to wait until I had more information but I couldn't wait. She tried to lie and say it was someone else, she even had it listed as a friend of hers on her cell phone. I called her on that and picked up our house and dialed the number. Before I got done dialing she was telling me whose number it was.

I told her that I will not be lied to anymore. She has lied to me too many times. I said unless she is willing to sit down and talk about how we are going to repair our marriage I don't want to be married anymore. I said I am willing to end this marriage is she isn't willing to work with me on it.

She refuses to leave the house. She works from home so it's a little harder for her to leave but she could figure it out. I said if she won't leave and won't commit to working on out marriage I will leave tomorrow. I really don't want to do this and I didn't want to say it but in the heat of the moment it just came out.

I have a place to go and at this point am willing to leave. It kills me to think about my girls not having me home every night. But I hate to say it but I would almost bet my house my wife cannot handle taking care of them by herself for more than a week. Her parents will never help her if I leave, they think she is completely in the wrong. My parents feel the same.

I wish I hadn't said I would leave but I did. I guess I will see if she is willing to talk to me tomorrow. I'm sure I did something wrong her and will wait for your comments.

If you want to screw yourself in terms of custody, then leave.

That is the biggest mistake you can make and it will be used against you in court. It's called abandonment and you establish her as the primary custodian.

DO NOT leave your house, no matter how mad you are. Doing so will only work against you.

I know leaving is the worst thing I could do. I wish I wouldn't think of it. I just don't know how to get through to her that this is it, I can't take anymore.

I do need a post like this though to keep me from leaving. So thanks pom for that.

After more back and forth with her she says she wants to work on our M. She always follows that up with I need to be prepared that it may not work out. That statement makes me think she is not giving her all and is just going to go through the motions for awhile.

I told her I wanted to sit down tonight and talk about how we are going to go about repairing our marriage. I told her we need a plan. I don't really know how to go about this. We have in our house "Love Busters" and "His Needs Her Needs". I checked "Surviving an Affair" out from the library awhile back. I have read all three. She has no interest in reading them, she doesn’t think a book can fix us. A book can't fix us but it could shed some light on her feelings. I gave up on getting her to read these books months ago.

I do believe she wants to work on our M. She just doesn't think she can get the feelings back. Last night didn't help the cause any either but it had to be done. She said she would take the EN questionnaire. Any other suggestions?