My son and grand children were moving up this way. Also it was the only way we could straight out buy a home and pay cash for it with no mortgage.
Husband at the time said ok commute wasn't that bad. But now traffic is getting bad, and he sees alot of accidents, it is becoming scarry also it is taking toll on body. He works sometimes 12hr shifts and then another 1 1/2 drive home. He really doesn't have a life, plus he is always tired you can see it in his face.

This is no longer true, correct? You've chosen a deadline for yourself to decide what you will and won't do--that's different. You're going to hold yourself to deciding and informing him of that decision, correct?

Am I confused?

LA

Hi LovingAnyway,
I was reading the posts and there is someone out there looking for you, they say you haven't posted for awhile. Are you doing okay?

Thanks for responding and keeping me accounted. its nice to know some one is looking out for me. i appreciate the support from everyone that has posted.

yes, Im checking into lawyers to set up an appt to get some info
on all this. Im not making a decision until Im secure with it.
Although this is scarry for me.

He has been working a lot of overtime, so this is main reason he is staying with brothers. But a few weeks ago when we had that big blow out, and in his anger he said he would give me a month to make a decision he was leaving. Then the next week end he came home, I mentioned that he had said he was leaving and I had one month, he said he never said that. Ok, so now maybe what he meant was he wasn't leaving for a month, but I had a month to make decision. That means I have until the end of Sept. Oh, my gosh not much time left. I hate this pressure,

That is your husband's deadline. How about one for yourself - maybe before his?

My H has a very demanding job with a lot of traveling. He has moments where it's like he wants to walk out but I don't feel it's me. It's his job. He drove to a set 6 hours away yesterday and came back today,absolutely worn out. He often has to get up at 4am like he did yesterday and today. But he never blames me. He says he's just exhausted all the time. He also had a bad accident a few months ago and is lucky to be alive. He was going somewhere at 2:30am on the Interstate. A Semi didn't see him and changed lanes. It ran my H into a construction site where he hit blinking barrels. One of the lights came in past his head and out the passenger window. If our son had been with him,and he often is,he could have been hurt or killed.
It sounds like the pressure is getting to your H. When my H is stressed,I do all I can do to help him. I even mow the yard. I will make his favorite dinners,make sure the bed clothes are nice and fresh. Little things can mean a lot.

Justpeace11 your H is gaslighting you!

He did say that! He is trying to make YOU feel that you are going crazy. Then he plays Mr.Nice of old times...to soften you up on the subject of the house...

Please please Do NOT fall for it.

It's The CLASSIC game of an abuser.

Please read up more on abuse...your H is doing the Verbal bombarding of you and now he is sinking into psychological warfare.

Let HIS one month come and GO....and you will CALL HIS BLUFF. He will leave or not. but Loooong before he does [ which I DOUBT] he will ramp up the Abuse.

He will will whip you back and forth like a rag doll till you're not even sure of your own name!

...the calm before the storm...he will create a sense of that for you...being nice...break you down in your resolve on the house issue....and then BLAST you again.

Craving Peace will be used against you. It's very twisted game he is playing right now.

YOU have the Power position right now. he is resenting you for that and you are the 'enemy' you stand in the way of his 'entitlement' issues. That house is YOURS, and it is YOURS by LAW. He can DO nothing about that...BUT he can try to break you down...and then he 'wins.'

If he loved you and respected that marriage was till the end...he would never think about that $$$$ in the house. For what? He lives there with you. He has nothing to lose. BUT if he is planning an escape...that $$$$ becomes very very interesting to him.

In one month, he will either WORK on improving the marriage, or he will leave...but without the house in his name.

You fear being able to pay for the house on your own. Create a plan to get yourself financially independent of him. You can do this! You babysit...make it a business. Do art classes for kids at your house for moms who need some time away from the kids. Look in the paper for whatever you feel you could be comfortable with...believe in yourself.
Your reaction is PERFECTLY NORMAL!!!
His lack of concern should be a flashing Red light...

Feel guilty? For what? He works. That's what he is supposed to do! Big deal!!! ALL our men are working if they are worth to have in our lives! YOU are working too...your work goes UNPAID and UNAPPRECIATED!!!! Maybe he should be PAYING YOU for taking care of the house and all the sundry bits that keep house and home together. women are supposed to work for free? IF so...we wouldn't keep useless wastes of flesh for men in our lives

Place Value in What YOU do. He will tear that away from you if he can. Don't let him!!! he cannot take that away from you, but you can by mistake, give it to him. TAKE it back. It's yours.

Justpeace11 do your FUTURE Self a favor and promise HER, you will NEVER sign over that house to Him.

I hope you have lovely weekend...but be warned...you are not out of the waters yet with him. He is staging another attack on your resolve.

thanks SoulDragoN,
Wow, have you been through something like this before? I hear your warnings loud and clear and yes it tears me up at the thought that this man could really be doing this. All these years (16) I would never of imagine he had this in him.

I can't help thinking that he must feel betrayed and that is why these actions are coming out (this in no way justifies his actions. I have been this way most of my life in relationships. The person can be a jerk, mind games, abuse,etc(and like you said its all staring me in the face)but yet I feel like Im at fault, that I am responsible for their reactions. I have pushed the wrong button.
He says Im using him.

In one of my posts. I mentioned how last year he suggested that we get rid of my older car and get new used one. The older car was starting to have some problems (money) and I go on excursions with my kids on weekends and he wanted me to be safe and not break down on road side. So we went and I picked out car. This was not too long after we had a blow out about hse.
(Im thinking he loves me, and this is one way of him showing me, by caring and being concerned for my safety)
Well, in this last blow up. In anger rage about the hse deal, he mentioned that the $$$ he pd for car would go towards his debt that I pd, so minus that much $$$. This was a shocker to me, and it hurt and spun me. Whoa, last year his wheels were turning. He said he is tired of me holding this over him and it keeps pounding him over the head about this debt.
I don't feel Im holding it over his head, the fact is very clear that I did take loan out to get monkey off his back, and he is not showing any appreciation for that, he also is trying to justify that he deserves something for it (in his gut, maybe he knows hes going about this in the wrong way, I don't know.
but when he said that, I felt like I had been set up. At the time of buying vehicle there was nothing mentioned that he was thinking how he could apply this towards his debt that was paid, he gave me a totally different impression for doing this.
My son says (he probably did do it out of caring and concern) but because he was angry he wanted to hurt me so this is probalby why he said it.

Back early in the marriage we had a squabble and at that time I realized how my H fights (mean, cold, he'll tear your heart out)I believe this was just a glimpse of his anger issue (but the marriage was new, I took note of it, but brushed it off) I told him "I don't like the way you fight, you go straight for the jugular, I don't fight that way, that is too mean and you go too far arguing over an issue, that is not healthy. Then he no longer showed it, and life went on. But the last two years its coming out more and more and now these last few months the verbal abuse and anger has gotten worse, its like he doesn't hold back anything any more. This hse thing has really brought the worse out in him.

Our marriage has changed so much because of this hse.
Am I wrong to think this way: I was blessed with $$$ to buy home, I pay of debt of H that would have taken 1/2 his check the rest of his life, by paying debt I freed him of his check, now he can have a life. Is it wrong for me to expect him to live in this home help pay mortgage and reg bills (normal life) and keep it up and life goes on. (Of course when Im thinking of doing a trust Im going to leave him something because he is my husband and I love him). That would be a normal thing for a person to do right?
So why do I feel so bad, why can't he accept this and be grateful?
Am I expecting too much from him? Am I not being fair and as he says Im selfish and greedy?

I can't help thinking that he has just now realized all the responsibility of owning a home, up keep, yard work, replacing things that go out, etc. He says all his money goes into this hse. I tell him you would have to pay rent somewhere. We don't have it as bad as some because our mortgage is low (if it wasn't for his debt we would not have a mortgage at all). He doesn't like yard work. Since his rebellion, I was doing yard work I enjoy working in the yard beautifying, gardening, etc. He backed off because he says he is just a renter, pays the bills and thats it, so since he is just a renter he should not have any responsibility to the hse. So that is when I started doing yard work, cleaning garage, and try to keep up cleaning inside hse as well. The yard work was getting too much for me, so I pay my grandson to help me out, so he could earn a little $$$. My husband had no problem paying him sometimes, other times I would pay him. H has no interest takes no pride in home since the battle started.

Lately when he comes home on weekend, he just lays around or watches TV or does his thing on computer. The lawns may need to be mowed, but he waits until I take the initiative to do it and maybe he'll come out and help but I end up doing the majority of it. (He does it 1/2 ---, if I can say it that way) he knows my pet peeves but ignores me and just does it to get it done, not taking any pride on how it looks.

Is there no end to this, except this marriage is deterioting and Im withdrawing more and more, I just don't know what to say to him anymore. I know when he comes home, he wants me to be excited and loving and missing him. But the truth is, I don't miss him lately, I care for him but not feeling the love I should. A month ago, he took me out for dinner and I thought he was working his way back to resolving the marriage. He wanted intimacy I could not get close to him in that way (this was in a previous post). Well, I guess that ticked him off, Sat moring the fight was on again about the hse and that is when he gave me a month and said he was leaving. This was a mind blower to me cause we had such a nice quite evening, (not loving, just being together). As I stated in previous post, there was no converstaion of apology, Im sorry, I love you, so on you know the mushy stuff ppl do after a big fight). we don't have those mushy moments any more. I just can't go there, I want to talk about how sorry we are, and so sorry for hurting you its just that I feel like this and that is why I said or did this, but I didn't meant to hurt you so deeply, you know conversation like that, isn't that the way two ppl that love each other talk after a big ugly hurtful fight? Am I in a fantasy world? Do ppl not do this to make up. Making up used to be the funniest loving part of having a disagreement. what happened?

Just pondering my thoughts this morning. checking to see if my expectations are too high, or am I not living in reality any more?

So now

This is all so ridiculous to me, my son says we are acting like children. I agree, but Im trying not to be childish, I feel Im trying to be responsible.............

Your case is a lot like mine. You might benefit from reading my thread here on EN. I've been getting amazingly good advice.

That is his passive aggressive way to make you feel guilty (works, doesn't it?). What MY husband says for the same effect is "You guys don't want me around. I should have just stayed at work." I used to kiss up to him every time he said it, show him how much we do care. But now, I just say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and walk away.

DON'T engage in his PA acts. Next time he says he's a renter, just smile at him and say "But what a cute renter you are!" and walk away.

Do you wash his clothes? We've been discussing this here lately. If he doesn't contribute toward the house, consider not washing his clothes any more. A little PA, but boy it makes you feel good, to think 'well, if he's not helping, I shouldn't have to do his personal care items on top of everything else; he can wash his own clothes, and it doesn't matter to me if he does or doesn't - I don't wear them!'

I grew up with it.
Then married it. *sigh*
Ja...I have LOTS of experience with it. Doesn't mean I have the cure or anything...but I DO know how to Survive.
[ which by the way is WHY you are being called selfish and a user...ignore that crap for what it is, utter BS...but it does hurt...IGNORE IT...it's warfare and nothing more.]

It was there from the beginning....but back then you were helping him out financially with all his "get rich quick" schemes.

LOL...sounds like Responsibility is not his strong point. He only takes an interest when he can directly benefit in some manner. Sad.
What a TOAD!!! GRrrrr!

Ask him: Are you a husband that I am to pay for as well?
i.e. I am to pay you by signing over MY house after paying off YOUR Debts...to keep you around?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!

And in ONE month YOU "threaten" ME...to be GONE??? Well ALLELUJAH!!!!! The albatross takes flight!
YOU ARE IN REALITY!!!!!

He is shaking YOUR perceptions of it!...CLASSIC case of Abuse.

Yeah....I know...LABELS^^^^...don't generally care for them myself...but there ya go.

Please Read Patricia Evans on Verbal Abuse and Lundy Bancroft-Why does he do that? on Angry and Controlling Men...<--- you will see him written down in Black and White...and you will NOT feel so spun out. You will SEE it coming and be ready for the onslaught of BS.

...Remember:....An ape playing with itself ...Whenever he starts in on you. It will help to defuse the effect of his nastiness.

My H B8tched about the WAY I washed them....so I told him...we take it ALL to the laundry to be washed. Done...then he B*tched about the WAY they FOLDED it...LOL....and was going to teach them how to FOLD correctly!!!! { oh brother!!!} ....LOL.. he wanted to REFOLD it...but I was to do that for him.....LOL....BWAHAHAHAHAHAH....Riiiiiight!!!! When cows fly!...he shut his HOLE.

I'm very confused but...

If he owes you money, and he wants half ownership of the house, why not have the house assessed for today's market value, then subtract that amount from what he owes you?

If he still owes a surplus after what he's already given you, you have a few options:

1) You can cut him loose and call it even. Even writing up a document and having it notarized if it would make him feel better.

2) You can figure out low payments for him (interest free or not - depending on how you feel about that) with several options for 4,6,8,or 10 years, depending on how long he wants to do that.) I would write up a legal document on this, with a lawyer's help. Then, he is free to go his own way and file for divorce. He can live closer to work in a trailer that he buys, and you can remain in the house, possibly with your son living with you. Hopefully between your son's rent and your husband's payment, you'll make the mortgage. You can earn a little extra money babysitting.

Hi Soolee,

Not ever thinking my marriage would come to this I never looked at it that my husband owed me any money. we would share a life together and make this our home and there would be a trust where I would leave him something cause he is my husband.

But now it has come to this, he has it in his head that my son will move in with me and help me make the mortgage, it has never been mentioned that he would pay me anything, oh wait a minute I guess he figures I would have his share of the equity and that would be my payment.

I tell you he sounds like hes got it all figured out. How blind have I been? I guess I was in la la love land and thought I had a good marriage. Now Im thinking was he making his own plans all along? Wow, this is getting to be too much, I never thought this was in him, I really didn't.

Hi catperson,

i will check out your thread. Thank you so much for your post.

yes, I have always washed his clothes, and keep house clean and tidy (this is mainly for me, I like a clean hse), he is a (slob)I mean that in a nice way, not deregatory. We are so different. He says a house should look lived in, Im too organized. But that is me, I have always been that way so why change my standards for him. When I met him his place was immaculate. He used to pick up after himself and wipe bathroom sink when he sprayed water all over it, and put his clothes in dirty clothes, and was careful not to spill on rug or furniture. He used to help with dishes, laundry (of course I asked him never to do mine, they are mostly delicates), he does laundry where he throws everything in together whites, levis, towels, I have tried to help him out with that, and tell him the whites need bleach and washed separate so they look nice, (I told him when ppl see your clothes they always assume wife does your laundry, so if whites are gray and stained thats a bad reflection on the wife. He didn't care what I said and continue to do it his way. when he took clothes out of the dryer (which very seldom happened) he would sometimes fold them, but now nope, and if its my delicates he just wads them up in a pile, which I have asked him to at least pls lay out the tops, and shirts so they are not wrinkled, the same goes for his shirts as well. Well forget it, he doesn't listen and lately pretty much does it his way, and still crumples up the shirts inspite of what I ask. This past year is just down hill all the way with everything. He is a rebellious brat and loves to push my bottons. But yet he tells me I have no respect for him (I don't fight with him (yelling) anymore I try to stay calm, then I just concentrate on staying in control of my emotions) I keep my voice at a normal tone and answer yes, no, well I don't think that is true, no, that is not the way it is,etc. He just goes on and on and then flairs up anger rage. He is ver phisicus, and obnoxious with his little remarks, this is a big turn off to me so I ignore him..

For the past year I do everything. yard work, laundry, clean hse, cook when I feel like it (and he is starting to pick on my cooking now) its something new all the time, so its very obvious he is not happy and wants to do everything he can to make me miserable and it works most of the time.
I have just never got into the tit for tat games, but maybe I should start huh? Im not one of those that its so important for me to get even, why bother in the long run I end up hurting myself so i don't go there anymore.

I want to share this with you.

You know husband has been staying with brothers during the week and comes home on weekends.
Well, he calls me every morning on his way to work. Ask how you doin? Or whats up? I say not much, whats up with you. He mostly tells me where he slept the night before either the couch or the floor, this week it has been the floor. (I keep telling him to buy one of those little single mattressed (camping)so he will be comfortable, he says there is no room, (well, I would make room).
and then he asks if Im babysitting, I say yes (which he knows I am, so I figure its just conversation.

Well, today he didn't call. So later in the morning after breakfast for the baby I called him, I tried to sound cheery. He says "Hi baby", I says how are you, he said oh a little sore. i asked why he was sore he said he slept on the floor again last nite. I told him he really needs to get that mattress.

Well, then he ask if I was babysitting. Yes, then he says I thought you didn't want to raise kids anymore in a phisicus tone.
Im not raising kids, Im babysitting (in my mind Im trying to figure out where he is going with this, ah then it hit me.

This is another story, but 2 yrs ago when we finally found his kids, he immediately try to move them in, (they are male and in late teens, he hadn't see them since babies, so I had no idea where they had been I know there up bringing wasn't that great mom drugs alcohol, so this concerned me, I wanted to get to know them one day at a time but oh know husband didn't understand and started pushing, that was a big blow out, that is actually when everything started going down hill, (you would have to know the beginning of this to understand why I was leary of having them in my house (I was working at the time, so they would have the whole hse to themselves, they were strangers to me and I was not going to allow it to happen until I got to know them. After all they had a place where they were staying. Its not like they were out on the street.I remember making a statement back then that I was done raising kids and didn't want to do it again.
So i asked him why he was being so phesicus, this is our grandson so Im not raising him. He said well I thought you didn't want to babysit or raise kids anymore so why are you doing it now. I said oh, are you talking about the time with your boys when you were trying to move them in before you even knew anything about them? Why are you bringing that up? (he wanted to fight). I said why do you do that? Why do you always want me to feel bad about something why is it you are constantly picking me apart for one thing or another. He wouldn't answere me and hung up.
This pist me off, and just really got to me. Why, why, is he doing this to me? Why so meannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn? He is coming home for the weekend and we are supposed to be planning a day outing together? I don't feel much up to it, and Im really leary that it is not going to be as pleasant as I would like it to be.
Something is brewing again. It will come out this weekend when he is at home.
He'll probably want some intimate, I CAN"T go there, do you understand. I just can't be close to him, after the way he is treating me. He doesn't even sweep you off your feet in the process he just mentions it in question, and then when I explain I just can't go there, if you can't love me outside the bedroom how can you love me in the bedroom and expect me to feel like Im loved for being a person and your wife. Why is it you make me feel only like a sex object. I have said this for months, he just don't get it, and he gets pist off and says oh go back in your little world. Then it starts, Im just using him, he is just a renter, and on and on. But you know we never can sincerely talk about the issue like every thing else.

This guy is driving me crazy and so far away from him.

Bottom line...would your life be better with or without him? At this point, with all the emotion driving your decisions, can you see yourself being more pragmatic about your future and being honest with yourself about this? As crazy at it sounds, maybe a pro and con list would help you decide.

I think when you do visit with the lawyer, you should also tell him about the condition of the marriage and inquire about alimony. It would be wise of you to get all your ducks in a row and know the ins and outs of divorce versus renting the home out and moving with him.

I do think, you cannot collect alimony in the year that you file a tax return jointly, so you may want to consider filing separately in the future. Also, I think if you've been very dependent on his income for the majority of your lengthy marriage, it would be a plus for you. Talk to a lawyer about it. He or she may be able to give you a better idea what sort of tax advantages there would be for each of you. I believe your husband might be able to claim it, which might make it easier for him to give you more, and you would probably have to claim it as income. It all probably depends on the state you're in, and I am not a lawyer, so would say to find one who can advise you properly.

What exactly are you saying sorry don't know what pragmatic means can you explain?

I added to that post, so you may want to hit the refresh button.

Actually, what I meant by being pragmatic was being less emotional and more practical about the pros and cons of staying married.

Soolee,
I looked it up.
yes, that is a good suggestion. I thought of it the pro and cons.
It is going to take alot of work to get this marriage right. If he sees nothing wrong (except for hse) what does that say? He doesn't feel counseling is needed. He sees no problem at all in marriage. he sees no problem with himself, his anger, verbal abuse, his says I over react on the verbal abuse im too sensitive.
It will take alot of work to begin to love him and not feel like walking on egg shells. Plus i don't feel he'll work along with changes to make things better.

So of course my life will be lonely with out him, not looking forward to that, but it will be lonely, financially hard (I find a job I'll manage) right now there isn't much left. I can't do this by myself. If he doesn't cooperate or want to change all this, then I guess Im better off alone.
Im tired of fighting, Im tired of childish ways, mind games, all of that. Ihave too much of that in my life and Im sick of it...........
he is not fulfilling my EN's, he probably doesn't even know what EN is? His way of fulfilling is buying you every thing you want that he could possibly afford. I have just recently learned that, so therefore I don't ask for anything and i try not to go shopping with him so he can tease me with "what do you want" you want this". No, Im learning to not be so axious to recieve I;m cautious, because I know what he is doing, and I want to make a point to him that he can not love me materialistic any more, I want and need more rather it be conversation, intimacy, etc. i think you know what I m trying to say.

Aren't you lonely now, with him gone all week? Six more years of the same. That part of it cannot possibly improve simply because you two never see each other. You can't work on a marriage if you never see each other.

What if you came up with your own ultimatum? Either rent the home out, sign the house over to your son with stipulation that you can live there if necessary, and move closer to his job so that you two can work on your marriage or legally separate and hash out the financial details with a lawyer. The way things are right now, it's almost like you're separated.

I just bought a book entitled "You Don't Have to Take It Anymore." by Steven Stosney, PhD. I haven't started it yet, but it seems very promising. It was written for people in your situation. You may want to read the reviews for it on Amazon.com and consider buying a copy. You can usually get some very good used copies of books there.

Both you and your husband would probably benefit from the book if you think he would read it.

Heh - I just read like 3 paragraphs on Gender factors in resentment, anger, and abuse, and those 3 paragraphs alone gave me information I had never heard before. I think this is going to be a book that will be well worth my time and money.

Excerpt: "The voice box actually swells when a man gets angry, which is why he wants to scream in traffic. His voice gets deeper, louder, and more menacing. The angry male voice is designed to envoke fear, whether you want it to or not. Angry women can sound shrill or unpleasant, but rarely will their voices envoke fear in men..."

"The female of most species of social animals have a lower threshold of fear than males. That means they go into involuntary fear reactions at a much lower stimulus and stay in them much longer..."

"The greater physical power of men gives us the greater responsibility to regulate resentment, anger, and any impulse to devalue, criticize, or abuse..."

Wow, I'm going to have to get that one.

I agree that you have to consider making some sort of change. But see a lawyer first and make sure your assets are protected.