Chai - She had to sign because where she lives, he could have forced her to even before the D was final.

How are you doing?

Chai its a long story..the other option was to sell the house so he could get half the money for the business.If I had gone that route my divorce settlement wouldn't have been as good.Also,if the house was in the process of being sold, the bank would have given him the loan anyway.I am signing for the loan cos the morgage is in my name and his basically taking a loan against the house.IF he defaults on a payment I have a policy of his which he ceded to me worth$1 million that I can cash in. In 3 years we will sell the house(kids will be out of school)and I will be able to buy a smaller home and he wants to pay back his loan.

Originally I wasn't going to give him the loan to prevent him starting the business and force him to get a job....but my lawyer said the bank would give him the loan if the house was up for sale so I couldn't win.I hate the fact that he has won in this area....

Thats why I get upset when I think of them going away for a weeks training having fun etc...I know this new business will feed the affair....and its out of my hands.This is something WH always wanted, to run his own business...now OP, who had nothing,is going to reap the benefits.I stuck by WH for 20 yrs as he made his way up the corporate ladder and this piece of rubbish and her boys are going to reap the benifits with him.OP will do whatever it takes to stay in the good books cos the money and security is what she wants.....

Hope,

I guess you really had no choice. It doesn't mean that it will strengthen the A though. Starting a business is about the most stressful thing to do. Ask me, I know. And to add a D to that, well, he'll have his hands full. Is OW a full partner or just a gold digger along for the ride?


And he probably knows that she is just looking for a sap to hang onto. The OP in my case has been through bankruptcy twice, and WH made that comment that he knew she was just looking for someone to take care of her. So, they know. But, that really doesn't mean anything I guess.

Chai,OP has no money to put into the business....thank goodness....so shes definitely a gold digger.....At the start of the affair,WH was having lots of doubts about staying in the affair cos he told me...OP was in a LOT of debt,he never mentioned figures but for him to say a lot it must have been.Also OP and her EX started a business which went under and they had to sell their family home cos of it.OP told WH that the debt is HER EX's fault...right!!!!

Can he not see a trend here?She is definitely in it for the money.....and his to blind to see it.....

I think the smartest thing you can do is go back to being dark, put as much financial pressure on them as you can (child support, alimony), get your popcorn and wait for the show to begin.

I would be curious to know what kind of computer company your H intends to start. Here in Cape Town every body and their dog has an IT company. Not all are necessarily successful however.

The good news is that a franchised concern has a statistically better chance that a private start-up concern in RSA. Specialist IT operations have the best chance of making money.

The bad news is that UK has an extremely good chance of employing folk with IT skills (I hear that they are the most PC literate world wide) and OW hails from there...

It is encouraging to note that your skills have universal demand. South African medical technology is held in high esteem and the South African work ethic is recognized overseas. This must at least give you some financial comfort in your future.

You mentioned Ireland as a potential stop over. My spies tell me that this is indeed a viable consideration.

I would hate to vacate fair Kaapstad myself as it truly is magnificent.

On another matter, feel free to ask me to recommend places or services from the Mother city. I'm thinking stuff like those tyres that you bought, etc. I guess I've got some cunning contacts in this here burg.

Better yet, you might appeal to H's shining knight side to advise you as well. I mention this because I don't think that you could do any worse damage to your Plan B. Sorry, but I did think that it's execution was pretty awful.

Listen I gotta run. Time to mark exam papers. I love this job like root canal without an anaesthetic.

Pep posted this - it is some of what I've been trying to explain, but she did much better -

In the book Private Lies by Dr. Frank Pittman, he has a very good summary of reasons why second marriages between persons involved in an affair very seldom succeed.

Generally he notes that disasters are only inevitable when people use romance to jump from marriage to marriage without a rest stop between. He says that there is something inherently doomed in those marriages that begin as marriage-wrecking affairs.

He noted that in his practice while over half the people who get into romantic affairs end up divorced, only one-fourth marry the affairee. It is likely that over three-fourths of these affair marriages end up in divorce. He says that there is a greater likelihood that the divorcing partner will be back with the original spouse in five years that that the romantic affair will be a stable marriage at that time.

He gives 12 reasons for this phenomenon:
• Intervention of reality
• Guilt
• Disparity of sacrifice
• Expectations
• General distrust of marriage
• Distrust of affairee
• Divided loyalties
• The nature of infidels
• The nature of affairees
• Romance
• Scapegoating the betrayed
• Unshared history

Out of 100 couples, (Pittman’s sample in his book private lies)
He said 50% of affairs couples divorced.
But, only 12% (12) actually married OP.
And then 75% of those failed (12*.75)= 9
Thus only 3 married betrayers are left

These are the defects he lists for marriages between the spouse and the OP.

1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a swithc that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.

2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.

3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.

4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.

5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.

6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and peope who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.

7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.

8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.

9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.

10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have alredy demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.

11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.

12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally proud of their new marriage.

Thanks Believer for that info..very interesting.I will refer back to it when I'm feeling low.Why do I still sometimes think my WH is different to the rest of them??
On a lighter note...DS18 mentioned that OP had put on weight and has an awful new hairstyle!!LOL

I thought a few times of your 'garden analogy"today...helps me stay sane!
Well today the weather warmed up and after work this morning I was able to bare my lily white body to the sun rays!Of course the boys teased me a bit....it was still to cold to swim though.

When I came here and everyone told me to have hope, I felt like my situation was different from the norm too. And I thought I would never be happy again - that the MB program wouldn't work for me. But it DOES work, and you will get there too.

As I've mentioned before,without this website and you guys I think I would be in a worse state emotionally and mentally...so either way MB definitely works.

When I see other marriages recovering in the 2 year time frame,it proves that Dr.Harley knows his stuff.Obviously not all will recover their marriages but the plans work.

I am glad that I told WH the other day that one can recover from a LTA the MB way.Last year I had given him notes on recovering from an affair(after he said he would like to read them) and he said he thought they were good but he didn't want to come back.He said it would only work if both parties want to recover and he didn't want to.He has never said MB was a lot of rubbish......so IF we did get back together I think he will be open to MB.

I'm glad you told him too. Believe me, it will be in the back of his mind. Men like a plan. My ex even asked me if we could do the MB plan. He thought it would work.

For the next month or so he will be concentrating on getting this business off the ground....so I don't expect to see any changes in him in the near future.....

I've wondered what to say to him if he asked me to come see his new shop....I haven't even driven passed the building...keeping far away.I think I'd just tell him that while we are apart I'd rather not...funny all the scenarios that goes through my head.

Whats sad about his new venture is that he has no friends to share it with.....only his 2 sons.His immediate family live in other provinces too.He will be very proud of it if it gets off the ground...but only OP to share it with.DS18 commented that I could get items from WH at cost price...I told DS18 that I would not be buying goods from WH.DS18 got very cross with me..

I think you need to stay in Plan B or you will lose your love for him. You let him know that you are still open to reconciliation, so he knows that.

If you do anything to meet any of his EN's, you're just helping out the OW.

Believer is right. You will only strengthen the A if you do anything to meet his ENs. It will only allow him to cake-eat. Go dark and let OW try to meet them all.....

I never thought of it as helping OW.WH is no fun to be around when he is stressed.I am actually scared of losing my love for him cos I can see it happening very easily.

I had a long day at work but it was productive...

WH just phoned DS18 on his cell...I could hear his voice yuck!!They are visiting WH's sister and her family....it hurts to think that his family has accepted her.....I have known them for 27 yrs and we all got on very well....now I never hear from them.....
Their training starts tomorrow apparently....I know I shouldn't know this but DS18 just told me...

Its weird how the fact that WH's family has accepted her hurts me so much...his other sister is not approving of what he has done or his change in behaviour and she has told him...so he just cuts her out of his life....they were very close.I explained the alien scenerio to her to try help her understand him.She says I mustn't take him back.Their mom had an affair and divorced their dad and it affected them terribly..now WH has done the same to his kids and his sis is upset with him.
BTW their mom married the guy and 20 years on they are still together.....she was very supportive of WH...do you blame her...we were very close tooo???

Just venting my mind is playing games with me..imagining the 2 of them having a whale of a time...no kids around etc....

Life isn't fair....

At least I don't have money worries anymore....my extra shifts are bringing in more money than I thought..we are paid according to workload and I seem to have all the luck amongst the staff....I know that God has a hand in this!!

Me and the boys are actually doing very well.....its only my emotional state thats up and down...

My lawyer faxed me a copy of the ammendments to the D papers.....will have to change one point,otherwise it looks ok.

I worked till late last night and when I got home,DS15 told me that WH and OW had returned home a day early..WH had said "it was good to be home and to be able to sleep in his own bed"..that hurt...DS15 didn't realise it though.

I am feeling like theres no hope left..and WH won't come back..I know his personality and his just to proud a person to admit he messed up.He said "its impossible for me to come back"...that tells me that even if he wanted to he couldn't.If thats how little I mean to him than its time for me to move on...

Since they came home early, maybe their time together wasn't so wonderful, but who knows?

Glad you money is stretching to get you by. Hopefully WS and OW will have lots of stress.

Help me out here H&P...

I am getting terribly frustrated when I read comments like "...I am beginning to lose my love for him..." because this is like why you went into PB in the first place...right???

You are trying to jump the chasm in two steps. Only cartoon characters can achieve this phenomenon.

What I mean is that you are doing what seems to be a half Plan B. Why are your kids talking to you about WH? Why does WH text you and not your mediator? EVEN IF IT IS AN EMERGENCY? Why are you trying to follow WH's progress? Plan B is for your protection and restoration...right???

Please excuse my frustration but we guys tend to bumble around and try to fix things, bear with me if I am off the mark.

Imagine,you are right about my poor plan B.Its hard when there are children involved...granted I do involve myself in WH life sometimes....now that the divorce is coming to a head its hard not to think about him,especially when I have to make arrangements to sign for the loan etc..I only knew about them going away cos of the changes made to WH's visitation schedule.I'll remind the kids not to tell me anymore info..as it does me no good.

The stronger I become the more realistic I get....also I think back to all that he has put me through and I ask myself do I really want someone that behaved that way, back?

To some degree I would be feeling this way wether I was in a dark plan B or not.Its as if my fog has lifted and I'm seeing things as they really are.....

One things for sure,WH would have to do a LOT for me to take him back..if it came to that.Also, if she dumps him I definitely won't take him back.