Hi Mogi-
I also read Gary Neuman's book Emotional Infidelity and thought it was FANTASTIC! the way he described the boundaries needed for couples in a marriage- things that we dont necessarily think of as cheating- DESCRIBED MY FWH TO A "T".

it made it all crystal clear to my H - about the way a decent H acts.

we were so impressed with his book, that we flew to FLorida for a one day intervention with him. it was very expensive, but my H borrowed money from a family member.

our session with him life altering. he keyed right in to our FOO issues and explained how my H was almost "taught" by his dad to have affairs and not how to treat a wife.

it was unbelievable.

gary spent one two hour session with me first, then a 3 hour session wiht my H and then a 2-3 hours with both of us together. we also bought a session after of phone therapy.

if it wasnt so expensive, we would have continued.

many of his thoughts and processes are teh same as MB, as you said.

i am also really looking forward to the show, SF

Both OW in my case didn't know, until I told them. They were PO'd at DH, but not enough to leave him alone. I blame them ALL!!

HI TAbby- so sorry for all the pain and upset you have had.

i had 12 OW in my life- most of them were "friends", one a "best friend" and others were acquantances and people who pretended to be my friends while just looking for info about my H and our Marriage.

i HATED the OW for about one year. i sent letters, i sent e mails, i sent packages, one woman even took me to court.

i was getting eaten up with hate and resentment.

i FINALLY REALIZED that it was just too painful to look at the REAL PERSON WHO HAD BETRAYED ME MORE THAN ANY OW. IT WAS MY FWH.

if you get past the anger, you will realize that no OW can steal a marriage from you. If it wasnt one OW, it would have been another.

It is your ExH, who is at fault. all he had to do was say NO.

she didnt break up your family - your exH did.

i know this may be harsh- but facing the truth will set you free.

SF

I again totally agree with Sunflower.

Well, did anyone watch it? If so, what did you think?

I watched it. I was glad that Oprah stressed that this show was particularly dealing with men but that by no means was it gender specific and that at a later date they'd do a show on the reverse.

It was a little awkward sometimes seeing the answers some of the women had -- sort of like looking in a mirror.

I haven't gotten to watch it, but one of my friends TiVo'd it for me. I am interested to learn more about this Gary Neuman guy and his thoughts on cheating.

MS

You can download Gary's book for free on Oprah.com. Haven't read too much, but it looks like you get the entire book.

http://www.oprah.com/slideshow/oprahshow/20080827_tows_cheating/1

Here's the link to the slideshow that is a very good summation of what the show was about.

I thought it was good. Some important things were not discussed but there will be second installment next week with Gary about affair-proofing (I'm guessing that will be when he discusses boundaries or extraordinary precautions...)

They were basically discussing the EN of admiration and that being a reason many men said they felt they were vulnerable to an affair.

ps...since it is something I have seen brought up here a lot recently re snooping...Gary says men RARELY fess up and will continue to lie regarding A's so he counsels his clients to look at cell records, GPS and if those don't work to ask for a polygraph.

tbp,
Would your husband submit to a lie detector test?

Our new MC asked H this and H didn't bat an eye...stating that yes, of course he would. I think that if someone doesn't have anything to hide, then they should be willing to prove that to their spouse. I am certain that if I hired someone to give a polygraph, my H would do it. My only concern is that the polygraph may not be able to give really accurate information and thus might make things worse.

MS

PS. How are you doing today Fiori?

the polygraph will be accurate.
agreeing to the test is often times nothing more than a smokescreen. My ex agreed to take the test and right before it she revealed more lies...hoping to avoid taking it. Guess what...she failed and admitted the test was accurate.

Schedule the test and do not cancel it for any reason.

I don't think Dr. Harley puts much faith in the accuracy of polygraphs.

S&C

then Dr. Harley is misinformed.

the FBI, CIA, police departments, national security jobs all consider the polygraph an invaluable tool for screening new hires. I think they would know their accuracy better than most.

I have taken three polygraphs and found them to be very accurate.

now that the subject has been brought up, I would venture a guess that the vast majority of people that think they have gotten the FULL truth from their FWS would be surprised at the results of a polygraph exam.

One thing is for certain...a polygraph is certainly a lot more accurate than a known liar. EVERY WS is, as defined by their actions, a liar. There exists a tool that will in the vast majority of cases get to the truth...and it will do so accurately and quickly. Years get wasted trying to get the truth out of a WS and rarely is it REALLY the complete truth. Liars lie.

That would be true even if a polygraph is only 10% accurate. I'm certain they are more accurate than 10%

Are polygraphs as a matter of practice, admissible as evidence in court yet? I really don't know so I'm asking.

This article is from the National Academies. They are considered to be advisers to Our nation on Science, Engineering and Medicine.

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309084369&page=212

An even more recent one...

www7.nationalacademies.org/dbasse/Science_and_Government_Report_on_Polygraph.pdf

And this one updated as recently as June 08.

http://www.nationalacademies.org/counterterrorism/

S&C

:(Poopy

They NEVER will be. It is not a matter of accuracy, it is an issue of self incrimination.
Polygraphs have been shown to be about 95% accurate.

He wouldn't until we had a big blowout at the MC office and he finally told me "everything". Then he emphatically said he would and I told him I was scheduling it, researched it online, etc and he was fine with it.

I didn't follow through but honestly, now that I have read some stories recently, I wish I had just done it. I think he would still do it.

According to those articles, it doesn't seem like they are accurate enough. It seems to state that they have been shown to be much less accurate.


Web searches on polygraphs seem to indicate that they have been allowed by judges to be used as evidence.

S&C

any evidence that the defense and prosecutor agree to can be admitted at the judges discretion. OBVIOUSLY since the evidence is stipulated to by both sides, the defendant is waiving his right against self incrimination.

Hearsay is not admissible in court either...but if both sides stipulate that the information is correct, it can be allowed.