Thanks Princess,

I'm "not deciding" for now. Hopefully the Doc will help me today.

Jean36,

Maybe it is just a man/woman difference. For me it is not love if you don't behave like you are in love. Love is an act not a feeling so much. Of course there is a feeling and right now, and for the last 10 years I have done the behavior of love without the feeling. It is possible that my wife had the feeling without the behavior.

Are you happy these days? It seems like you went through the ringer.

6years,

You are expected to be all over the place. You are expected to be a bit depressed and obtaining some anti-D's for a period of time is a wise move. You are expected to not know what to expect.

Given the time line, you are right on time. So don't worry.


The "FOG" as it is refered to around here, is really a period of self-dilusion coupled with a "logic" that defies logic.

She says she loves you, but you have noted that her actions up until lately have not been those of someone that loved you.

She says she did not want to hurt you, and somehow expected you would not be hurt. That defines "FOG". How could having an affair and threatening you with divorce NOT hurt you?

On it goes. If you talk with her, if you listen to her telling you out loud her thinking and behavior, I think you will see the "FOG" and frankly often the WS when they hear themselves actually utter their own words begin to see the "FOG".

This is a process 6years, take you time. Gather more data, examine yourself, work on yourself, and you will come to see what the correct decision is for you.

God Bless,

JL

I'm back from my first psych appointment. It went ok. He thinks all the sparring is good for me, even though I'm starting to be pretty bruised up. He does not think I am depressed but wants to see me next week. He offered some sleeping pills but I turned them down.

He was no help at all with the underlying anger and sadness, just said it would take me time and that I am grieving and feeling like I've wasted my life. I don't know. He did say I might never be able to forgive this and for me to think about that.

This "not deciding" is hard. I'm going to go beat up some sparring partners again since the doc said it is a good release. Looks like I'll be the best fighter in the gym before I'm past this.

6YL,

Take stock of your assets too, at 6'3" you are above the 95 th percentile for male height. That puts you high on the list for many females should you need to find a new mate. The most common adjective females use in the personal ads is tall. I would guess that you would rate as a 7-9, adjusted for age etc, while your wife might be in the 5-6 category, and I think she knows it.

I'm in the 4-5 category while my wife is in the 7-9 category, if this happened to me I would be toast.

NJ

New Jersey,

Thanks for the boost, it's been a long long time since I really thought if a new women would want me. I've been too much into dad mode. If there is one out there who likes em tall and bruised, then I would be a dream right now.

I'm just taking the weekend to have fun, I entered the weekly Krav event at the gym. Just people in the gym, not some killer UFC or something. The boys always love to see me fight, but the girls can't stand to see me get hit.

I know the constant training is only a bandaid for my feelings but I need it this weekend.

My wife asked if I would like it if she made a special evening for me on Sunday. I said yes to keep the peace. I'm sure she will make a nice meal, get the kids out to a movie and some affection and SF. I'm going to let her do this for me and I'm not going to bring up the A or anything. I'm tired of her crying all the time and she was happy when I said yes. I mentioned that I would be sore from the Krav and she offered to give me a massage. She was a physical therapist when I was in school, so she can give a nice massage. It has been about 10 years but the old body could sure use one. I'm going to try to get over that fact that she was giving OM plenty of massage when I wasn't getting the time of day. (Those letters are going to haunt me.)

I'm kind of rambling here. But is this plan a good idea? I'm not committing but I'm letting my guard down a little. We can talk about all the stuff in the letters, and more of my questions next week.

I did ask if she was thankful that I found the strength to keep the family together. She said yes that she is always thankful for me. I didn't know what to say so I said "I needed to know that." I was thinking that she is the mayor of crazy town but I'm still trying to get the fog thing.

This is a good thing. If you can allow her to meet some of your needs good feelings can come from it. And then this can lead to more ENs being met which leads to loving feelings...you get the idea.

You're doing good 6. This isn't easy , but you are handling it very well.

You may notice as time goes by that the more remorse you see and the more effort she puts forth, the easier it will be to release some of the resentment and anger. Like I said before, she can help you. Help yourself and let her.

And it helps her too. She wants to make ammends.

This is win win.

6YL,

I won't pretend I understand men/women/love/realtionships etc. After all this, I am finally to the point where I realize I know nothing. Which is a good place to be, it means I am open to learning.

But, I would like to say that I was a very repentant FWW, and I was as crazy as they come when I was in an affair. Everything seemed so logical at the time, but MAN, when I look back now, I don't even recognize the person that could have thought like that.

I believe that a truly repentant FWS is a wonderful mate. They know where the danger lies and they avoid it. As a FWW, I was 100% committed to my marriage and my family and I found true peace in that repentance.

I can't imagine what the past 10 years have been like for you. But now, there is a chance that your marriage can be... I was going to say something sappy and then realized the sad truth is that you marriage will have this stain of infidelity on it.

I am sorry.

But, before you confronted, there was going to be this block. Now, there is a chance that there can be a level of openess that wasn't there before. I realize this all sounds lame and I am depressing myself.

Am I happy, no, not very. Divorce sucks, big time. But I have to co-parent with someone who wishes I would evaporate since I didn't deal with his affair the way he would have liked.

I want to say I believe it can be better, but my "recovery" was a fake. I can say that a FWS can truly be repentant and willing to do so much work to restore a marriage.

You are sticking around for a few years, hopefully you will open up to letting her try to fix this. I admire your dedication to your family.

6
Do you have a friend you can trust and talk to about this? I have been going through a similar issue where my wife is having and affair and it really hurts. Fortunaltly I have a friend who I can talk to about my situation. And it really helps.

Because of your situation you don't know what normal is any more. Your emotions are on high alert and to come up with a rational thought is too much to expect right now. Talking it out helps.

Besides it is only a matter of time before your gym buddies will be running for cover when they see you coming.

Well, good!

I once had a big cut on my arm. I put a bandaid on it. That darn cut still hurt but the bleeding stopped. Eventually, the pain subsided and I was able to take the bandaid off (you should still work out though). Eventually the pain was GONE but there was a scar. I still look at it and remember how I got it but I really do not remember the bleeding, nor do I remember the pain. Actually, the scar really isnt that big anymore as since I started working out and expanding my muscle. That darn scar just sort of blends in. I am so glad that I was able to get stronger so that darn scar wasnt so apparent.

Just thought I would post what happened this weekend so I can get your thoughts on how I am doing.

I did great in the monthly gym tournament, I made it through to today and W came with the boys to watch me. The girls will never watch. I was on fire all weekend, I have good skills but never really had the heart for it. I've been filled with anger all weekend and it showed in my performance. My W has never seen me spar but the boys told her I am a wildman this weekend.

Our special evening only sort of worked out. We went home, kids went to a movie and W told me to take a hot bath to relax for a massage, plus I was pretty smelly. During the massage, here is our conversation as best as I can remember

W: I saw you fight and I could see that you are filled with anger. Look at all these bruises, I hate to see you hurt like this.

me : (I was angry but I said). I'm doing the best I can to keep myself together. These bruises are nothing at all compared to how much you hurt me. I really am trying.

W: (This would have been a good time to say "I'M Sorry".) But she said "You are a hundred times the man that T is."

me: Don't ever compare me to T. Don't even talk to me about him unless I ask you to. I can barely do this right now.

W: (Crying, a little but still doing the massage and kissing my back) "I love you, just give me a chance"

me: I need to hear you say that, and I need you to act like you love me, and I need you to be sorry, really sorry.

W: I need you to tell me that you love me too.

me: I have not said that to you since you started with T and told me that you never loved me. I've acted like a loving husband for 10 years and you just started to act like a loving wife. I'll say it when I can mean it.

I don't remember the rest but she cried alot and we did SF, then I came away to here because I am still hurt, angry and lost.

Here are my questions"

1) Should I just tell her directly that I need her to say "I'M SORRY" about a million times, and in particular when I am down.

2) I can't get my anger to subside. Should I call the doc again?

3) Was I wrong to say don't talk about T? I know the actual comment was nice, but it made me want to just walk out the door.

4) I could go on a guys trip next weekend, 4 days. Normally I would not go since I do about 85% of the parent things, but I really want to get away. It is not to punish her, but it would be nice not to see her for a few days. Is this a bad idea?

6

Is your W willing to do counceling with the Harleys? Jennifer or Steve could explain to her how important it is to help you heal, and they can help her do it. Maybe she just doesn't know how.

Just a thought. Sometimes it's better if they hear it from someone else.

1. Strong yes. You absolutely need to tell her this.
2.Yes. Can't hurt, might help.
3. Maybe tell her exactly that? You know the comment was meant to be nice, but you are not able to talk about him right now?
4.I think this is a bad idea. A person with a M in trouble has no business going away to do independent stuff unless there is a separation/Plan B. Independent behavior kills marriages.

JMHO.

One more thing.

You were really put through the wringer for a long time. You showed a lot of character by staying, but were also very dishonest.

Now, when the cards are on the table, is the ::real:: test of character. Revenge? Or a new life together?

It could be that she thinks saying she loves you and crying *is* the same as saying "I'm sorry". I think you should tell her specifically. Be open and honest: say, "I am saddened (or bothered, or whatever rings true for you) that you haven't exactly come out and apologized. I hear you say you love me, and I see your tears, but what I need is to hear you say 'I'm sorry.' About a million times. I need to know that you are sorry, as in, repentant of what you did, wishing you hadn't done it; not just wishing you hadn't gotten caught."

Or whatever is true for you.

In my experience, a (F)WS in most cases does not undertand how very important it is to say Im sorry as much as possible. It isnt until they become truly repentent that they get this. Many never do get it. If only they understood that to say "Im sorry" and be specific in what they are sorry for would be like applying much needed salve to a desperately wounded BS.

I would suggest telling your W but she may not really understand. Yu would think she would, but You may need to give her guidance. There is an excellent book - called "How can I forgive you?" by Janis Spring . This entire book details the importance of apologizing and what it means to someone who has been wronged and how to do it.

Your W needs to understand that you have been through a horrible trauma. If your wounds were physical, you'd likely be in intensive care and have a fleet of professionals around you to heal you. Your wounds are emotional and invisible but that does not mean they are just as serious.

JK,

I'm going to have to tell her about saying I'm sorry. It will make it mean less to me but I need her to say it. And not "I'm sorry if I you were hurt." That just makes it sound like it would have been ok, if only I weren't so fragile. Have any of you had the WW apologize in a way that was actually meaningful, the words helped you.

I think part of my constant anger is that the whole thing seems so unfair. It was more fair when I just got to live in my little shell and leave when the kids were raised. I'm so angry that I find myself thinking about having an A myself. No 2x4's please, I won't do it but not because I owe her my loyalty. I won't do it because I want to respect myself.

Do any of the rest of you have trouble with the unfairness of the whole thing?

6,

The unfairness is agonizing. In time, if you work hard with your W at building a mutually satisfying marriage, you will be able to let go of the pain of the unfairness. But it is way to soon for that for you.

Just take the right actions today to the extent you can, and try to trust that feelings can and will change.

Chrysalis,

Thanks for you wisdom. I just wish this could be over. I thought I was at zero love before the full disclosure, now I don't even feel that much. I'm just a big ball of anger, hurt, frustration, and sadness. I am always in firm control of my mouth but I almost asked W to just leave. I've done this whole plan to keep a family for the kids for all this time, and I could barely keep the words in me.

I know it is a love buster thing to pour this venom out, but I don't care if she loves me. I've had a long time to get used to the idea that she did not. The kids need a mother though so I need her to stay. Is there a way for me to just puke out all these feelings to her and not drive her out the door.

I thought trying this MB stuff would make me feel better, but it has not.