Hi,

I am very very new here. So please forgive me if I am not familiar with all the acronyms yet. I really need some help before I lose my mind. I need to find out if my H is having an affair and I'm not sure how to or if I should do it.

A little background on us:

We have been together 7 years and will have been married for 4 years tomorrow. We have a 5 month old daughter. This is my and my H's second marriage. We both cheated on our spouses with each other. No, it was not right but in my case my spouse was abusive and forced me out of fear to marry him. In his case it was a shotgun wedding where his parents forced him to marry her because she was pregnant. (This is the truth I am friends with his Ex - neither one wanted the marriage and they were 18 at the time.)Still doesn't excuse it or make it right but we are not habitual cheaters and we really have had a wonderful relationship for the past 7 years. We've been through everything. His step kids, his ex, battling infidelity, losing a child, remodeling our house from top to bottom, and now having a child. Our marriage has really taken a lot of hits but I thought we were weathering them. Until now.

Everything seemed ok up until I got pregnant and our baby was born. My spouse has always been amazing. Always meeting my emotional needs. I have not been so good. And I know that whatever happened is mostly my fault. I will go into that at some later date because it's too long to post here. But lets just say I was very selfish and did not meet his needs. About two months ago my spouse started acting very differently after a business trip (the first such trip he had taken in two years)and we started fighting about it. Then about a month ago he told me he was thinking of leaving if things didn't improve. I was caught completely unawares. I shouldn't have been based on my behavior but I was.

In any case, we are working on putting things back together. We are both reading His Needs, Her Needs and taking the Emotional Needs Questionaire. I have done a lot of soul searching and I realize what I did wrong and I really want to change. I want to do everything I can to meet his needs and be the best possible wife for him. He knows this and he has warmed up substantially in the last month since I have been trying so hard. Which is really nice. And I'm really enjoying getting to know him again and doing things for him. We're having more fun than we've had in years and more sex too. (Although that has never been a problem with us).

Everything would be great if I wasn't afraid that he hadn't already started having at least an emotional affair. He got a new cell phone in December. It's an AT&T tilt, a smartphone, and it allows him to check his e-mail, etc. on his phone. I have the same phone. His phone is protected with a code though. He says it's because he has work e-mail on it and that it made him have a code. He said his coworker has the same phone and the same thing happened. But they have changed the e-mail system at his work and he can no longer receive work e-mails on his phone - at least that's what he tells me. So why the code still and why won't he give it to me? He's always been very private and it's difficult for him to trust people but he has given me all his passwords in the past, albeit with reluctance. But he changed his main e-mail account password in December which I found out by snooping when I couldn't get into his account last week.

His cell phone is under my name and social though so I can see the bill and the bill detail although he had a password on the account. I got the password changed and went through the bill. There is nothing out of the ordinary. There are a couple of calls I don't recognize but they are during work hours and they are pretty random. There is no pattern of numbers that he calls or texts over and over. He was staying out later and coming home late from work last month but he has since stopped doing that. When he is home he does not go out without me so I'm not worried about that.

What I am worried about is who he may be talking to at work. He only has a work computer which is completely protected because he handles sensitive material. He used to let me on it but now that I have my own lap top there is no reason for me to be on it. I don't think there is any way I could install a keylogger on it. I asked him about his e-mail accounts and he got mad and said "I'm the one that brought up that I have a problem with you and now you don't trust ME?" So I don't know if he was really hurt or if that was just a smokescreen. He did let me see his phone and e-mail a few days later but I know darn well he could have cleaned everything up since then. So great, now if he is having an affair he knows I'm on to him. He said he was staying late last month because he was working overtime and I have access to his bank and credit card statements. His paycheck has been larger to reflect the overtime and there are no random cash withrdrawals or unfamiliar charges. No balance transfers. I also have access to his credit report which I will check today.

But there are three women at his office I'm concerned about. He made me have dinner with two of them and their spouses on two separate occaissions while I was pregnant even though I didn't want to. I thought that was weird but he said he didn't want me to be suspicious now that he was working with women. So maybe he wasn't having an affair then and is now?

The weird thing too is that he wants sex more than ever now. I used to be the one with the higher sex drive and now he can't get enough. He says that he couldn't possibly be sleeping with someone and do it with me that much. I do believe that. I'm not worried about the sex. I'm worried about the emotional stuff. The love. That too me is worse and is a precursor to the sex anyway. He does spend all his time not at work with me though. We had an incredible weekend filled with recreational companionship (played basketball, went to dinner, played pool, went to a sports bar together, went shopping for anniversary gifts together, took a shower together, took a bath together, watched movies together, etc.) and conversation and tons of sex.

I'm so confused and I don't know what to do anymore. The only way he could be with some one is during work hours and through his e-mail and I don't know of any way to check on him in either place. He is really strange about his phone though. Won't be apart from it for a second, except to sleep and jumps the minute it beeps.

What if I snoop and he finds out and he wasn't having an affair? Won't that kill our chances all together?

I'm about to go out of my mind but I can't relax about this. Somebody please tell me what to do next???? I NEED to get my marriage back and it's really hard to concentrate on doing the right things when I have to worry that I'm competing against someone else.

Help!

First of all, you are in an "affairage". Regardless of the reasons, that's what it is and you won't be popular around here. Also, your chances of success were never more than 2 or 3 percent anyway. There's a thread on this where Dr. H himself gives advise for your situation. Somebody bumped it to page 1 this morning but it's probably fallen down again. I'll find it and bump it for you. You are going to get a lot of 2x4's on this thread.

In all reality, it looks like he has lived up the adage "If he will do it with you, he will do it to you."

Unfortunately, you married a cheater, and the signs are there, that he is indeed cheating.

Yes, I read the article. And yes you are probably right. But I came here looking for support for the relationship I am in now. And I was honest.

A little more detail: My H tried to reconcile with his Ex even though he did not love her and she did not love him and even though she was LIVING with another man. He did it solely for the kids. It didn't work, she wouldn't give him up and she wouldn't admit to the other men she was seeing that he found out about. It had nothing to do with me. They were already separated by that time (and had been for over a year) so I guess technically it wasn't an affair on his part. I did not want to even be with my Ex, nevermind marry him, but he was physically abusive and I was afraid to leave. I gave him many chances but he refused to get help or change so I left him. My current H helped me leave. I would have never gotten out otherwise and it would have gotten even worse. So people can give me 2x4's if they want but I did everything I could to save my first marriage short of putting my life in danger. And so did my H.

So flame me if you like but not all "affairages" are black and white. I'm not sure if this even technically counts as an "affairage" or if it's more about two people who actually left their spouses already.

S&D,

Your strategy is pretty much the same whether or not he's in an A. You need to "Plan A" your little hiney off! The only difference is if he is in an A you'd also expose the A to his circle of influence - best friends, parents, OW's husband, their HR department at work. But, since you don't know, you Plan A anyway.

Read up on Love Busters (LBs) and make sure you eliminate them completely. One Love Buster can withdraw TONS of points. You cannot fill his love bank if you are making withdrawals through LBs. One poster said it's like trying to fill a bucket when the bucket has a hole in the bottom. It just can't be done. That's true - so in addition to meeting his top ENs, work on eliminating the LBs. And I mean TOTALLY. Gone.

I suggest that since he's working through HN,HN with you, and seems to be enthusiastic about it, that when you're done you both work through "Fall In Love, Stay In Love". HN,HN focuses on ENs whereas FIL,SIL covers ENs, Love Busters (LBs), the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA), Negotiation, states of a marriage (intimacy, conflict, withdrawal). The tools in FIL,SIL are fantastic. Once you've worked through that book, he may realize on his own how important it is to the M that he share his passwords etc. with you and that he be open and transparent.

I'd also like to mention that you've only been trying for a month. It will take a while before he believes the changes are real.

I asked him about his e-mail accounts and he got mad and said "I'm the one that brought up that I have a problem with you and now you don't trust ME?"
I agree this sounds scary. Why can't you install a key logger on his computer?

Thank you Turtlehead. I appreciate the advice and I will definitely follow it. Thank you for being non judgemental as well. This is exactly what I was looking for and I will read everything I can find about plan A and institute it religiously.

I don't think I can install a keylogger on his computer for several reasons. I can't install a hardware type because it is a lap top and he would see it instantly. I would love to install a software type but I don't think I can for the following reasons:

1. It is a work laptop and he deals with sensitve navy information (he's a government contractor)
2. The laptop is password protected. I don't think I could get in as admin or in any way without the password
3. My husband's masters is in IT. He is a computer geek and has sucessfully used a keylogger himself on his ExW. I know there is some sophisticated stuff out there but he is pretty good at finding stuff.
4. His lap top is pretty much used only at work and is almost never out of his sight.

Do you really think he is a habitual cheater? He has never raised a red flag in the last 7 years up until now. I've known all of his coworkers and had access to everything up until now.

Off to read about plan A. I do know that this is all going to take a lot more than a month. I am ready and willing to committ to doing this for however long it takes until he believes me but I don't know how I can succeed if he is having an EA at the same time.

What began as adultery continues as adultery...Helping you fix this "relationship" would be to help you to continue your affair...It was always only a matter of time before it failed...

Your circumstances don't change TRUTH, and the truth is that ADULTERY is ALWAYS wrong...You are beginning to reap what you have sown...

True repentance is changing your mind and heart...I don't believe that is possible to do while remaining married to your affair partner...Each time you sleep with your affairage spouse you commit adultery and so does he...Neither of you were ever released from your covenants to your original spouses...

It never ceases to amaze me that people in affairages think this is a rightful venue for them to come to get help...To me it just shows further callousness towards others...a lack of the empathy gene if you will...

Mrs. W

First of all, I am so sorry about your loss of a child. I've never experienced it but I'm a mother and a grandmother and I can't imagine there'd be much worse.

Second, you mentioned above that you guys had battled infidelity before. What's the story on that and how long ago was it?

As far as your part in how you got together, specifically your reasons (spousal abuse), I understand that sometimes it take some help to get away because my daughter is going through the same thing (although they were never married).

But what YOU must understand is that a lot of WW's CLAIM spousal abuse or we never loved each other or it was shotgun wedding or blah blah blah to excuse their affairs. We hear that a lot on here so don't expect a whole lot of sympathy. I appreciate that you were honest about it though.

As far as snooping on his computer, doesn't sound like it can be done because of his security clearance. Have you thought about a voice-activated recorder in his car?

Then what exactly should we do? Should I go back to my original spouse who never loved me and who beat me? Should I remain there until he beats me to death? Should my husband go back to his original spouse who is now happily remarried and does not want him? Who refused to end her affairs no matter what he did? Should we just divorce and never see another person again? Live our lives without love because we screwed up? Did you even read my subsequent posts?

I am not going to get into a religious debate with you. Yes, you reap what you sow. Yes, adultery is wrong. Yes people make mistakes. But if I can talk to several ministers, pastors and priests and they can understand what happened for both of us and why we did what we did, and if they assure us that neither one of us is going to heck and if they believe that we have God's forgiveness then maybe we're not doomed after all despite what you say. No one said it wasn't hard. I am not arguing the statistics. But there is a chance for us, albeit a slim one.

Or is every divorced person doomed to failure too?

The truth of the matter is that I am not in a fog, my husband and I have had a wonderful, solid relationship for 7 years despite the odds. My husband's ex wanted to divorce as much or more so than he did and my Ex could never think of anyone but himself no matter how many chances I gave him.

But I thank you for your honesty if not your support. I understand that a lot of these comments are coming from peoples' own pain and I understand. I took that risk by putting myself out there on this forum. What I cannot understand is why, experiencing pain yourself, you would choose to heap more onto someone who is obviously already hurting. Does it make you feel better to be righteous?

I can tell you that after I left my Ex and started a relationship with my husband I have never, ever, looked at another man. Never wanted to cheat, never thought about cheating, never talked to another man about personal things. So, I guess maybe the old adage isn't ALWAYS true. There is no one I want and no one I have ever wanted other than my husband. No matter what you think I believe in the sanctity of marriage and having an affair has NEVER been an option for me. And it never will be no matter what my husband does. He knows this as well.

Now, I'm not exactly sure why I am defending myself to you...

S&D,

Not every divorced person cheats as a way to leave a marriage. There are people who leave/divorce without ever cheating because they know its the right way to leave a relationship. They also realize the act of betrayal (cheating) leaves a path of destruction where the one betrayed (and their children) are NEVER the same.

Harley, the founder and owner of this site, tells us that cheating on one's spouse is equal to the effects of death of a child or rape to the one being betrayed. I can testify this is a razor accurate analogy. As can thousands of my fellow members who are also betrayed and here trying to restore their marriages from preditors and interlopers (aka people who want to steal and marry our spouses).

God bless.
Jo

Sorry I meant to say we battled inFERTILITY not inFIDELITY. I have infidelity on the brain lately. We went through two years of costly treatments and sex on a schedule and finally stopped only to get pregnant on our own.

Yes, I can understand that people use all sorts of reasons to excuse an affair. I can give you the instances of what happened with my former spouse as proof if you like. I can tell you how he slammed my arm in a door or threw things at me or hit me with a metal rod. I can tell you about all the sexual things he forced me to do. I can tell you about all the names he called me or how controlling he was or how I wasn't allowed to even see my own paycheck but instead had to have it directly deposited into his own accounts to pay off his debts. I can tell you how many times I tried to break off our engagement only to be threatened (he worked for the State Department and threatened all sorts of scary things would happen to me if I left him). I can tell you how I walked out on my own rehearsal dinner and was literally dragged back. None of it excuses an affair. I should have NEVER married him in the first place. I know that now. I was young and stupid and everyone I know begged me not to do it and to get help. But I didn't until I met my husband and he protected me and helped me out. And by the way, when I met my current husband and was still with my ex I cut off all contact with my current husband because I did not want to have an affair when I was married and I went to counseling through our church and gave my exHusband every chance to change and then left him and got my own apartment when he would not. I gave him still more chances after that to no avail and then finally broke it off with him for good. He then ruined my credit and destroyed all of my things. Someone please tell me, what more could I have DONE???

Regarding the other posters, if that displays a lack of EMPATHY for others I am sorry. And as far as my current husband goes, he did everything he knew to do to save his marriage. He gave her everything she could ever want. And I know because SHE told me so, not him. And that is just the kind of man he is. He is a constant giver. (Which is part of our problem, he gives no matter how he feels and I take. We really need to institute the policy of Joint Agreement)

I am very, very sorry I ever posted on this board. I have had nothing but pain in my life until I met my husband and I just had the best 7 years of my life with him despite all of our challenges, up until a month ago only to be going through anguish again. I thought I could get some help here but I guess not.

Don't worry, I won't bother the rest of you any longer with my adulterous, non empathetic presence. I guess I will just have to struggle through this alone. Obviously I deserve any bit of suffering that has come to me.

Sorry to bother you all...

Yes. That is what I think. (edited to clarify: I believe that until your original spouse dies you are still in a covenant with him - at his death you would be free to remarry)

Shocks you doesn't it? To realize that others don't believe that life is only about your own divine happiness...WOW, huh? That life IS about doing the right thing, even when the right thing is hard, especially when the right thing is hard...That is called CHARACTER...That is called loving the Lord enough to obey His commands...and when you don't obey them, you do all that you can to repent and immediately get back on track to obeying them...

You don't stamp your feet and pitch a fit declaring, "BUT THEN I WON'T BE HAPPY!!! AND LIFE IS ALL ABOUT MY HAPPINESS!!! WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!" Unless of course your Bible has a book that mine does not..."The Book of Hedonism"...

I pray that you will learn this eventually...Btw, I am NOT posting out of any personal pain...If you'll notice by my signature, I was the the WS in my marriage...Thankfully I did the right thing and today am in a very happy and fulfilling marriage with my first and only husband...I made some horrible choices...myself and my whole family suffered for those choices, but ultimately I chose to do the right thing...

Mrs. W

P.S. ...(Hint: Obeying God does in fact lead to happiness. Might not offer "instant gratification" though...)

I did warn you about the 2x4's. I still advise you to read the affairage thread, in particular Steve H's post on it. He actually does offer advice that would be helpful to you.

There is no point defending the past. It is done. Nobody is saying you should have stayed with an abusive husband. You should have left him first, then started dating, that's all. It's actually not that complicated. But it's done now and you want to save your current M. The principals are the same as any other M. Read the affairage thread - you will find some helpful advise there. Click on the link to Dr. H's post first.

Mrs. Wondering,

I know that life is not about my happiness. I have done everything I can not to sin in my life and to follow God and the bible. To the point of staying with someone who abused me because I thought it was the right thing to do. And in my last reply you will see that I cut off contact with my current husband when I was with my ex. I knew it was wrong and I did everything I could to make amends and cut it off completely. I even exposed the affair to my boss and my friends and parents and to my exHusband's friends so that I could be held accountable - on my own. My exH did not ask me to. I went to counseling. When that didn't work I got an appartment, on my own and tried to go on dates with my Ex. I even switched jobs so that I would not be tempted by my current husband while I was reconciling with my ex (we worked together). I took a job I hated just to avoid that temptation. I focused all my time and energy on my exH. And IT STILL DIDN'T WORK. He was still horrible to me no matter what I did. And after 8 months I stopped trying. And yes I eventually got back with my current husband.

But you know what, it doesn't even matter. You aren't going to bend and I'm sorry but I don't agree with your viewpoint. So like I said, it's better if I just go.

Actually Tabby that wasn't Steve that posted, it was his father, Dr. Willard F. Harley...Great information...

I am not saying there isn't help for her to be had I don't suppose...Personally, I think it's iffy, but I know that the Harleys do counsel affair marriages even though they have had little success in doing so...So sure, ShockAndDismay could certainly call them...I do think that the forums here are the wrong venue for affair marriage people to come for help...That is essentially asking the victims of adultery for help...Frankly, that just leaves a very bad taste in my mouth...

Mrs. W

It's not that I don't have empathy for you ShockAndDismay, but like I told you in my first post, your circumstances don't change TRUTH...The truth is your marriage began as ADULTERY and ADULTERY IS ALWAYS WRONG...That is one of those pesky moral absolutes...

I don't see how you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear...You simply can't...So I'm not telling you this based on emotion, but rather based on simple moral fact: Adultery is wrong...Your marriage began as adultery and continues as such...You can't make adultery right...no matter the circumstances...It is destined to fail...I am sorry...

Mrs. W

My mistake - thanks for catching it Mrs. W. I agree the forums are no place for affairages simply because of the number of people here who've been badly hurt, damaged and scarred by adultery.

And see ShockAndDismay all of your words here about your ex husband are suspect because they are coming from the mouth of a WS...Someone that left her husband to be with an OM...to marry that OM...

BUT...If there is truth to them, then it is my belief that you DID in fact have a Biblical right to divorce due to extreme abuse...Your husband breaking his marriage vows...

HOW.EV.ER...

You should have gotten that divorce BEFORE you dated your current husband...

BUT YOU DID NOT...You dated him while BOTH of you were MARRIED...

Thereby committing ADULTERY and forever tainting the relationship...

Sort of a fruit of the poisonous tree deal...

Mrs. W

S&D,

You can still get some really good information to help your M hear, even though there are some that will not allow you to move forward.

There are also some very "respected" and very active people on this board that started their current marriage out much like yours.

You're choice while you're here, is to take the information that will help you and weed out what doesn't. If you focus your attention on defending yourself to others that will not offer help, then you will be wasting your time here.

You have someone that seems willing to help. If you are looking for more help, you can switch your discussion over to another forum, either by asking a mod to do it or just start a new one somewhere else and link this thread in the post.

You'll probably still get people that will try to push their opinions on you, but still; take what will help your M recover and weed out the stuff that's isn't advice.

Blessings.

S&C

Thank you S&C. I appreciate your help and your perspective. You are right. I want to focus on rebuilding what was once an excellent marriage not defending how it started or the moral implications.

So, can anyone forget how the relationship started and offer some practical advice? How do I figure out if he is cheating if he only does it at work and it's only emotional. Here are the facts.

- We share a car. He is almost never in the car without me. We carpool to my office, park there and then he takes the metro to work. So if he's talking to someone it's likely not happening in our car. I assume he could be meeting someone on the metro and talking there? It's hard to have sex on a crowded subway car though. And right now he is reading His Needs, Her Needs during the commute and I can tell he's actually been reading it. He probably couldn't get that done if he was talking to someone could he?

- I don't drive much so we run almost all of our errands together. It is very very rare that he is ever in a car by himself. So I don't know that there is any point putting a voice recorder or gps in our car since I know where it is and I'm usually in it if he is.

- There is no evidence on his cell phone bill. I have complete access to it and I've checked every number and text. Everything is as it should be unless there is some way to disguise a number.

- There is no evidence on his bank statement or his credit card statements. I see his paychecks, I know all of the money is direct deposited in his bank account. I see his entire bank account and there are no cash withrawals or transfers to other accounts. The only credit cards we have are joint and the online accounts are in my name. I don't think he can have a credit card that I don't know about because he would have to have some way to pay for it eventually and his entire paycheck goes into the account that I have access to. Plus I have access to his credit report and I can see everything he has.

- We carpool to work together in the morning and he comes home right after work. I know that he is not skipping out on work because I see how much work he has and it would be impossible to get it done if he were skipping out. He also just got a raise for his hard work (And both of his bosses are men. I know them both, one of them is friends with us)I don't see how he could keep progresing at work and getting more responsibility and raises if he wasn't getting his work done.

My concerns:

I can't see what he does at work. He could conceivably sneak off for a few minutes here and there although he does not have his own office. He shares an office with three other people. But he could always go to lunch or for a walk. Or chat someone up at their desk. But then again his boss is a real stickler about break times and he uses his lunch break to work out so I don't think he could take another break. And I know that's the case because I can see the evidence by his muscles. He doesn't go to the gym before or after work and we don't have any fitness equipment so he has to be working out some time in order to look like that. And if he's going to lunch with someone she would always have to do the paying because there is no evidence of it on his statements.

I don't have access to his e-mail. And even if I did he could create e-mail accounts that I don't know about to have an online affair. This is my biggest concern.

His only computer is a laptop issued by his work and very protected. I don't see how I could get in to install a key logger.

Odds are if he's having an affair it's with a co worker (and I can think of two suspects) and it's in the office and/or via e-mail.

So what do I do to figure it out? Can anyone offer some practical tips? Some way to track him at work? An undetectable keylogger that doesn't require me knowing the passwords to his computer? I need to know so that I can bring it to light if it is happening. I have no problem with sharing it with HR and his boss, family, friends, etc. if that is the case. I just need to know first.

In the meantime I will keep working on Plan A and working on meeting his needs and not committing ANY love busters. But it is so hard to do this when all I can think about is a possible affair.