I am well aware that I will be probably be smashed badly with a 2x4 or larger, but I feel something needs to be said.

Yes, affairages are WRONG and seldom last. Actually, I have a dear friend who is in an affairage right now and probably headed for divorce soon. She was widowed, but HE was very married. She knew how I felt about it before she married her affair partner(she was not even his first affair),but she married him anyway. She is in tremendous pain and incredibly lonely because she has lost so much in her life as a result of this decision.

My life has been turned inside out because of my H's affair and even 15 1/2 months out, I am still not totally sure whether we can make it or not over the long haul.

I HATE AFFAIRS!!!!!

HOWEVER......even Dr. Harley, in one of the books( I think it was HNHN, but don't have it in front of me to check), uses the example of a man who is beginning his SECOND affairage. The man approached him looking for help to make THIS marriage last. Dr. Harley made it clear that the man's previous wives wanted nothing to do with him and he did not want to make the same mistakes he had made before.

Guess what? Dr. Harley helped him.

This poster did not come here asking us to approve of either her or her H's decision to have an affair, divorce and mary each other. She admitted the error of their ways(at least the way I read it) and wonders if her now H might be cheating and what her approach should be.

ShockandDismay, I am not a vet and do not feel qualified to give you good advice. There are many vets here who have literally posted thousands of times with timeless advice. Perhaps reading other posts will help you if you don't get help on your own thread.

Otherwise though, I suggest calling the Harleys themselves. I believe they have the BEST advice.

ShockandDismay, I have to tell you that it sounds to me like he could be cheating. My H cheated almost completely at work. He doesn't drive(visual impairment)and he was only EVER not with me at work and 2 other times in that ENTIRE year. I say you should go with your gut. My biggest regret was in NOT going with mine because it just seemd so impossible to me that he could even have the OPPORTUNITY given our circumstances. I know now that when someone WANTS to cheat, they find a way. Period.

Blessings to you,
WH2LE

Interesting request.


Have you ever asked yourself why you are this suspicious he could be having an affair ... and you don't even have any proof!

You know he is capable of adultery.
You know he is capable of dishonesty.

Your suspicions are a product of "how the relationship started".

I can't forget. Neither can you. It's the reason you are here (without proof) trying to get the goods on him .... you do not trust him.

A lack of trust is "built in" to marriages that start out as yours did.

Pretending otherwise is not a solution to your suspicions.

Here's my suggestion ---

you arrange a dinner alone together
when the meal is finished
and he's comfortable

ASK HIM if he's starting to have emotional feelings toward anyone in the office

if he says"no" - drop it

Pep

S&D,

Hard to do anything about the things you can't control, so work on those things you can. YOU!

Re-read turtlehead's post to you. Put your plan together on how you will do plan A and the other stuff that was suggested.

Sounds like there are some things you could do differently, so start finding what they are and start making changes as soon as possible.

And keep in mind that if Dr. Harley were your MC, he'd try to help you with this M.

Blessings.

S&C

Should we just divorce and never see another person again?


Yes. That is what I think. (edited to clarify: I believe that until your original spouse dies you are still in a covenant with him - at his death you would be free to remarry)

Quote

This isn't even a RELIGIOUS statement. This is a statement that is true IF you took marriage vows. A persons promise means something, or at least, it ONCE did.


That said, when a person is being beaten, physically, and bullied and forced to behave a certain way because of fear of physical harm........well, that negated JUST about everything.

No person should live under the fear of getting their [censored] whooped.
And unless someone has lived under those conditions, they have no idea what it does to you.

Gabagool,

Are you saying that being physically abused is a legitimate reason to cheat on your spouse?

We've had hundreds if not thousands of WS stories here claiming their BS emotionally or physically abused them in their attempt to vilify the BS AND used as their excuse for cheating, among a host of others.

IF it is true, isn't it a morally wiser and safer choice to leave instead of cheating? Seems cheating on someone so allegedly abusive would only inflame and escalate said abuse.

Jo

gabagool...

If you continued to read, you would have noted that I did say that IF what she said regarding the abuse was TRUE...and let's be honest, the words of an ACTIVE ADULTERER are highly SUSPECT...BUT IF they are TRUE, then she would have had cause for DIVORCE...but NOT cause for ADULTERY...There is NO JUSTIFICATION for ADULTERY, wouldn't you agree?

Mrs. W

S & D,

From reading your posts, you state that your H helped you leave your exH, you changed jobs so avoid being tempted by current H but you deny having an "affair" so I will assume it wasn't physical until you left your exH.

Given that info, yes, I would think it a safe bet that your H is at least having an emotional affair with a co-worker.

Isn't that how you two started?

If so, you should have the insider info on how to bust him. Was he living with his eW when you two were having your EA? What lies did he tell her to keep her suspicions low?
If you two were having an EA at work, how did he keep his wife from finding out? If he is doing that same stuff-there you go.

S&D,

This forum has an "ignore" feature that is very useful when emotions are high and nerves are on edge.

Click the poster's name, then go to their profile.
You will have the option to ignore the poster.

Personally, I think people can change.
I think they can become better spouses, better people. I think they can beat addictions, learn not to be an ennabler, and a host of other very difficult things. They do it all the time.

You have a marriage that you want help with. Period.

This thread is about saving this marriage. Dr. Harley would try to save it.

If this thread gets off track it may get locked and will be of no use to S&D.


I am exercising step 1 for those that do not want to help S&D and only want her to change the past.

Your attempt to have S&D change the past is unhelpful to her. It also goes against what Dr. Harley would do. He would help them.

S&C

S&C...

You are more than welcome to help her as you see fit...By the same token, others are also welcome to help her in the way that they see fit...

Personally, my posts were meant to help her change her future as I see this marriage as totally doomed based upon how it began...I also believe the scripture that says there will be no unrepentant adulterers in heaven...So yes, I feel that my posts to S&D are VERY helpful...They call for her to take an honest look at what she is doing to herself...

Mrs. W

***************EDIT************

Now, to help Ms. Shocked,
I am not here to give a 2x4 to someone who is honestly seeking help and answers.
My first question is, aside from how the marriage started, and aside from you having been selfish and not meeting his needs (which you didn't go into in detail), what makes you think your H is having an A? What evidence do you have? There's nothing showing up on bank accounts or messages, or unaccounted time. Is it just paranoia on your part because your marriage was vulnerable?
Have you read the Harley material on this site? Are you in Plan A? That seems to me to be your best bet. Show up at work unexpectedly to treat him to lunch. Make yourself a more familiar face among those at his job. Make the homefront an inviting place to be. Have you read HNHN and have you assessed his needs and are you now meeting them? What are the things that attracted you to one another and are they still present?
Infertility and losing a child are very difficult, but you can be brought closer to each other in surviving tragedies together. How well do you both communicate with one another? Have you been able to talk with each other about how some of the difficult things have affected each of you and your marriage?

I mean that when you spend our time black and blue, nursing cuts, making excuses, hiding, crying, scared, hurt and hating your life, you are NOT in the best mental shape to make a correct decision.

An affair is ALWAYS wrong. But IF I were to thing OTHERWISE, a battered wife (or husband for that matter) would be one instance that I would AT LEAST not associate with it being STRICTLY an act of selfishness. I would be dissappointed that that is the route he or she took.

AN affair is ALWAYS wrong.

Mrs W and Res:

WHile I have stated what I stated, I FULLY understand what you are saying, AND respect what you guys have to say. And NOT because I am all that non judgemental, but simply because it makes sense to me.

ANd Mrs W, I realized that you have it more figured out than most, certainly more than me.

Hello S&D:

Here is what Dr. Harley advises for people in adultery-based marriages:

“The advice you have been receiving on the Forum focuses attention on your affair. I've written quite a bit on that topic, and many of the responders have read it. In general, I warn people to avoid an affair because if the very same problems you are facing. And if a vast amount of research and my own professional experience can be trusted, it happens to 99% of those who try to make an affair last.

While it's very unlikely that you will follow my advice because you're in love with "Jane," leaving this relationship, and restoring your relationship with your first wife is the wisest choice.”

Source: Dr. Harley's Post on Affair Based Marriages

Hope this helps.
Jo

I know Resilient,
There are a ton of claims of abuse on here, and I know that they are NOT all true.

I have a hard time EVER believing EMOTIONAL ABUSE, because you wouldn't BELIEVE what some people are calling emotional abuse.

Yeah, and absolutely, if you are a victim of physical abuse, messing around on them is BIG TIME dangerous. Thats one example I mean when I say that the blows to the body effect the way you think.

Thanks Gabagool.

I certainly hope you've never experienced any kind of physical abuse. If you have, I'm terribly sorry for what you've been thru.

Jo

In that particular thread(where Dr. Harley suggested that the poster leave Jane and return to his first wife), the poster and Jane were NOT MARRIED YET.

I think that is significant.

I have a hard time believing that Dr. Harley would suggest divorce from an affair partner to return to the first marriage, particularly in this case, where a child has already been born. I have no business speaking for Dr. Harley,of course, but this is how I read his advice.

Blessings,
WH2LE

Please feel free to correct me in any way if he has actually given this advice. I truly do not want to contradict here,

WH2LE

you married a known abuser ..



you married a known abuser when people who love you were begging you not to ..



you were rescued

it's interesting that you called yourself stupid when you married H #1
I would not have used the adjective "stupid"
I very much doubt that you are stupid
I would have said "weak"


I don't understand why women do this - enter a relationship as a weaker partner - but, you've done it two times

WHY DONT YOU JUST ASK YOU HUSBAND #2 what's going on with him?

show some strength - face him directly
ask him
if he denies involvement with anyone else take him at his word - he rescued you after all

Pep

S&D,

Hope you haven't gone away. Not allowed.

I'll be traveling but I'll still check in.

S&C

"It never ceases to amaze me that people in affairages think this is a rightful venue for them to come to get help...To me it just shows further callousness towards others...a lack of the empathy gene if you will..."

There are some with a lack of empathy here but who am I to mention names.

If a person in a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, marriage comes here for advice are you going to help them?

If after lustfully looking at another, someone comes here to seek advice are you going to stone them as well?

This is the Marriage Builders forum right? I do not see an * stated that only those of marriages that we approve of should come here seeking advice -

Affairs suck. Period. Why can you not see beyond that to offer this person advice on what she can do in her MARRIAGE.

You are a "FWW ~ 39 [Me]" so who are you to give any advice at all. Take that plank out of your eye before you look down on others -