There you go again -

I guess God only forgives you -

You are not a victim you are a ****EDIT****. Let the true victims decide if they want to offer advice or not.

Do not leave us - There will be some that are able to look at you with the eyes of compassion.

There will be some that are able to remove their plank and offer you advice.

Keep on building your marriage despite the circumstances.

MoDaisy...

Never have I claimed to be a victim of anything other than my own selfishness and stupidity when it comes to the fact that I had an affair...I have never tried to hide it here, as you pointed out, it's right there in my signature for all to see...

I am qualified to talk to ShockAndDismay regarding her current issues though, because that very well could have been me..."There but for the grace of God go I"...So, I do feel it is important that I point out to her that what she is doing is flat out WRONG...Her affair has gone on for seven years...So what that she "married" her affair partner? It still remains an affair...When does adultery cease being adultery? Just what is the statute of limitations on an affair?

See MoDaisy, I realized the horror of my ways, largely in part due to this board and people here pointing out to me just how horrible what I had done was...So if I can return the favor and do that for someone else I will, because I know the very genuine joy of repentance and I wish for others to know that as well...So I am no predator, but rather a person of compassion, because I do know what waits for her on the other side of affair he11...

What is it that you bring to the table? All I've seen from you so far is a complete misunderstanding/misapplication of the MB concepts along with headship issues within your household...But please, if you feel you have something of value to say to ShockAndDismay have at it...No one here is stopping you...

Mrs. W

And really, where does it end? When a new WS shows up on the board we certainly tell them to STOP what they are doing...Should we now add the disclaimer: UNLESS YOU DECIDE TO MARRY YOUR AFFAIR PARTNER, THEN COME BACK AND WE WILL PILE ALL THE HELP YOU COULD EVER WANT AT YOUR FEET!!! MAKE SURE TO LEGITIMIZE YOUR AFFAIR FIRST WITH A CERTIFICATE OF MARRIAGE!!!



How in the world do we counsel devastated BSs that their WSs affair will end...try to help them take steps that will hasten that end, but in the next breath come to another thread and try to help someone save their affair??? How does that make sense to anyone???

Good grief...I just don't have the stomach for it...

Mrs. W

Adultery never ceases to be adultery - Every person on this board that is in a second marriage or married to one that is, every person that has ever looked at another with lust has committed adultery.

I would think that the statute of limiations on this affair ended when they stood before each other and shared marriage vows. What lead them to marry should not be our concern - Is this not the MARRRIAGE BUILDERS forum?

He11 does not await her or her husband if they have asked for forgiveness from the one the ONLY one that can forgive a sin.

I agree completely w Mrs W. Why is this situation different? Essentially, it is just a long term affair.

The bottomline is, Mrs W is doing this poster a favor. This M is destined to fail because of how it began. This poor woman is driving herself nuts on whether or not she can trust her husband because she knows she cant .

If you built your house on unstable ground, you would always be worried about your house caving in.

It isnt really a case of "closed minded" people not willing to help. People here are offering help, help for this poster to get out of a bad situation that will never work.

Wow, so then the affair that I had was only wrong because I didn't divorce my rightful husband and marry my affair partner???? I could just have erased it all with a marriage certificate, huh? Wow, who knew???

Wow, that is some screwy logic MoDaisy...

Here I was thinking that to repent we were to "Go and sin no more"...I'm not sure that is possible when every night you go to bed with your affair partner...

MoDaisy...I think you think that I am being "mean"...Perhaps for you the highest standard is to be "nice"...The highest standard to me is to be GOOD...So if I have to hurt some feelings to be GOOD and stand for TRUTH, though I don't love doing that [hurting feelings], I will...To me, BEING GOOD and TRUTHFUL is more important than being "NICE"...

Mrs. W

YES JK!

Mrs. W

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here but unless you belong to some religion or culture that says so, this is wrong. Not all divorces are due to adultery. Not all second, 3rd, 4th or even 10th marriages are affairages.

Affairage: Marriage to an AP - as in, WS cheats on BS, divorces, then marries the the person they cheated on their BS with. It is a long term affair, but it is also a marriage. Not the same as WS & BS divorce (due to adultery), WS and OP break up, WS moves on and finds someone else and gets married.

There was a statement a page or so ago that Dr. Harley would tell this poster to return to their original spouse. My opinion is that I highly doubt it. In fact, my opinion of Dr. H and MB would take a significant nosedive if he did. Her original spouse was abusive. She should have left him. She should never return to him. That doesn't excuse adultery but it doesn't sentence her back to the abuse either. I've been in an abusive marriage and there is NO WAY I'd ever go back. She had every right to leave that man. Telling her to go back to that abusive creep is just telling her to walk out in front of a train.

So while it does help her to know the poor chances of an affairage, as well as the difficulties which face them (which she is experiencing now), it does nothing to continually hammer her over the head with it. It is done. It's in the past. She is now aware of the reasons why her marriage is more vulnerable than a typical marriage. If you don't have anything more to add, then stop posting to her thread.

I usually love your comments and your posts are among my favorites. In this instance, however, I find myself completely at odds with you.

She came here asking for help with her M.

If you don't consider it a valid M, then you don't need to offer help. No harm, no foul. You're entitled to your views and opinions.

I don't see how your judgmental posts are in any way, shape, or form responding to her request for help with her marriage. I find them quite distracting and hurtful.

I do hope S&D comes back. It would be a shame to come here in pain and desperation like so many of us have, only to be ripped to shreds.

EGG-ZACT-LEE. Thanks Tabby.

Folks actually do leave marriages without cheating on their spouses. Adultery is not the wise or moral exit to a marriage and entrance to a new marriage [adultery-based marriage]. Harley details the reasons why in his literature on this site and his posts.

Jo

Would everyone who is bashing Mrs. W feel the same way they do if the person ASKING for help was THE OW OR OM WITH YOUR exH or exW?

I know I wouldn't look at them deserving help. And how many in all honesty would be so gracious. The marriage is an OUTCOME of selfish hurtful behavior where SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE got their life SMASHED INTO THEIR FACE, without ANY say. SOMEONE got their life TORN APART, someone somewhere woke up one morning TRYING to remember if their spouse REALLY left or was it just a bad dream.


You can NEVER make something GOOD out of something bad.

You may NOT agree with Mrs. W, but her opinion is just as VALID as those who disagree with her. In fact, many many people agree with her.

Again, if the other W or M IN your LIFE came here and asked for help to repair the relationship with YOUR husband or wife, and you were gracious enough to understand, well then, I see your point.
Me, no thanks.

Thank you to everyone who has offered their support. I am still here and I am reeling today.

It is my wedding anniversary today and this morning I was snooping through my husband's work bag while he was out on a run (oh, how I HATE doing that) and I found a post it note. Not in his or my handwriting. It said:

"I can't help it if older men find us attractive. I like you! I love you!"

No signature on the note unfortunately. What a nice thing to find on your wedding anniversary. I guess there's some proof right there. All the signs are there. He won't answer any direct questions or anything. I haven't confronted him yet but I did keep the note and hide it. I just want to die right about now. If it wasn't for my daughter I think I would try to go to bed and never wake up. I know that there is a running joke between him and two ladies in his office regarding his age and how he is an "older man". He is 35, they are in their 20's. So I'm sure it's one of them. I just need to figure out which one so that I can have some more concrete proof and expose the affair to everyone.

So I am going to do my best to follow plan A. Tonight I will get into his e-mail address while he is sleeping and see if I can discover some more. I don't have the password so I will have to reset it which luckily I can do. So he will know that I snooped in the morning but depending on what I find I plan on confronting him tomorrow morning. I don't know how I am going to make it through the rest of the day today. Especially because I have to act like I know nothing and continue being the best possible spouse I can be.

I truly, truly have always loved this man. He is the only man I ever truly cared about or would do anything for. I never ever thought about cheating on him. I never would. I don't want vengeance. All I want is for him to end the affair and work on putting our marriage back together.

Oh dear Lord, I think I will die from this pain!!!!!!! How does one get through this? How does one survive? I am in such shock. I never thought in a million years this could happen. We had the most wonderful love for each other. How on earth will I cope?

Here is what Harley writes about adultery-based marriages such as yours, S&D.

Hope this helps:


Seems its innate to how you two started.



Jo

Be sure and check the Inbox, the Waste Basket, and ESPECIALLY the Sent messages!

He can claim that "those women" send him stuff and they're only playing. He can say he doesn't reciprocate. But if you have the sent messages you have proof that he's actively participating.

Also check his IM logs if he uses IM or chat.

He'll delete everything once he knows you've snooped. Print it all or save it to disk (and then to CD so he can't delete it).

How does one get through this? How does one survive?
Well the way I got through it is the days, hours, and minutes kept on going by. There's not much choice and it sucks, sucks, sucks. Read up on Plan A. Meet his ENs and avoid LBs.

You may find that you want to wait and confront him later, but if you find overwhelming proof and do decide to confront, be sure to do it without love busters - it's going to be really hard to avoid angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments.

What is your plan for confrontation?
You need a concrete plan. Just saying "I know and I don't like it" is not a concrete plan.

Will you ask him to write No Contact (NC) letters to the woman or women, let you read them, suggest changes and then send them yourself when you're happy with them?
Will you ask him to change jobs?
Move?

What will you do if he refuses?
Will you expose?
Will you ask him to leave the house?
Will you file for D?

If you do expose, who would you expose to? Do you have all that information at hand now? Note - DON'T tell him you're going to expose!!! NEVER threaten exposure. It will give him time to talk to others about his "crazy possessive wife" and nobody will believe you.

Get your plan down and have your ducks in a row before you confront him.

I know you're feeling crazy and hurting and want it to stop NOW but you need to slow down, get your facts, and get a plan. I personally wouldn't confront immediately. I'd sit on it 24-48 hours while I got my ducks in a row.

I don't think anyone is bashing Mrs. W. I agree with everything she has said. However, it's been said now and there's nothing the OP can do to change her past anyway. So either help her or don't.

As far as the OW in my life seeking help here - I hope I live to see the day

So either help her or don't.

So simple. So correct.

So 100% of marriages that start for the wrong reasons fail?

I told you that in the situation that THIS poster described. I made no mention of your affair in that post.

"Go and sin no more ....." that is laughable. We are born in sin and live in a fallen world and NOT 1 of us is incapable of sin.

You can mince words however you want and you can dismiss this marriage if you decide to - The fact is, it is a marriage despite the circumstances. Was it built on faulty circumstances .... it is still a marriage. Your advice to END it is not marriage building.