Thanks lil!

Do you have any advice on which keylogger is best? It must run on a Mac, and preferably I can get the results from another computer, like via email.

try looking on the spying 101 thread, on GQ2 I think I read a few posts on it adn I think there was one that emailed to another addy. have to buy it tho, can you purchase stuff without having to account for the purchases?

I started to say yes... as in, he doesn't ask me how I spend money... but he is the one who pays the bills and so if he wanted to look at the credit card purchases, it would be easy. I don't know if he'd bother to examine the individual charges though.

Something we have here is prepaid visa cards. you buy them from the bookshop. Do you have anything like that?

Oh that's possible! Thanks I never woulda thought of that!

He's asleep now, I went and got his laptop and checked his emails to and from his folks. There's several back and forth emails around 9:30 p.m. which is I think about the time it happened. Those emails are about a large sum of money his folks are loaning us for the down payment of the new house - with the proceeds from my house we don't quite have enough, and the proceeds from the sale of his house won't be available in time, so we just need the extra money for about a month.

Maybe this was just another case of his allergy to communication. Maybe there wasn't anything to hide, he just plain didn't want to tell me. Or maybe he's mad at me for suggesting he ask his parents for the money - my mom was going to help us, but it would be a lot harder for her, she's older and has recently had to go back to work. His dad retired last year and his mom is retiring this year and they go on several trips a year including overseas. My family put out almost all the money needed when I was sick after the kids were born. He may be sensitive to that, and to past comments I've made, and just not wanted to risk hearing any comments I may have made. I'm trying to do better, I even re-read the article about the friends of good conversation this afternoon. But it could still be a sore point for him, I dunno.

I'd ask him except when I try to talk about anything like that, he leaves the room. I did try opening p some good conversation over dinner though, asking about very non-threatening, simply interesting stuff from his work. That seemed to go well.

What do you think, should I go ahead with the key logger? If so, I'll use your idea about the pre-paid credit card.

Ok, I have several somewhat conflicting thoughts

What you read wasnt really all that important, he just didnt want to tell you for what ever reason.
You don't like not knowing whats going on, and thats a LB for you. I'm the same.
A keylogger would give you info that he may not give you, thus giving you the ability to make informed decisions which currently you often cannot do.
However you may grow to resent needing to snoop just to find out basic information that should be freely available.
On the other hand, you may learn something very important to you that will have a huge impact on your life.
Should he find it, he may be extremly unhappy and not understand your reasons for it.
You may inadvertantly let slip something you find out covertly.
You may learn things about your H that gives you insight to his inner workings.
This may give you compassion for him, it may make you lose respect for him.

umm, I think thats all

lol yep I think that pretty much covers all possibilities!


This is absolutely true. It's a huge LB for me. Me snooping to find out may ease my mind about suspicions but it doesn't erase the LB of him not communicating.


Yes. This is a very small chance, but if it happens it would be very important that I did. Kinda like insurance: you prolly won't need it, you hope you won't need it, but if you ever do need it you're glad you got it, even if you're in pain.

I'm not sure he'd get mad. We've always told each other all our passwords, except for his when he was working at a national lab that required special security clearances, and except for my password that I use for MB and email devoted to MB stuff and talking to his SIL, etc. The account isn't a secret, just the password - and my computer knows the password, and he has access to my computer, so it really isn't kept from him anyway.

Well assuming I read your post right, it sounds like it is a good thing to do with no real negative repercusions.

I do think the prepay visa would be best tho

Yes, you're prolly right.

It would be better to resolve the problem of the LBs, but oh well.

Thanks for the pre-paid visa idea!

One last thing before I go sleep-

I checked cnn.com one last time, to see the latest news, the debate etc., and lo and behold there was this little reminder of a book that's on my list to get:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/09/26/o.improve.your.marriage/index.html

When you said it was about the money, the first thing I thought of was that it's embarrassing to him to have to go to his parents for money. It's hard for women, but it's doubly hard for men, I think. I think he hates himself for having to go to them. Maybe if you get the money from them, you could open up to him about how you know how hard that must have been, and how grateful you are that he was able to take care of things for the family. That admiration may go a long way toward making him feel safe with you.

Jayne, I am concerned about you getting a house that you need to borrow for the large down payment. My H says if I want to stay in this house, I'll need to buy him out, which is fair, but will mean me signing over to him our joint investments. This house was inexpensive when we bought it in '99, but has doubled since then. You have an H who is still willing to put his hands on you in anger, when he thinks you "deserve it," and I suggest that you consider that when making major financial decisions.

Hey, thanks for the idea, cat!

Admiration is definitely one of his top ENs. I hadn't thought of complimenting him on handling things without having to get money from my mom. That is a great way to turn around what is probably a sore point with him, into an opportunity for a positive affirmation.

I will definitely do that.

It isn't that we need to borrow for the downpayment; it's that we are buying one house and selling two. So the house we are buying is purposely the amount of house that we can afford using the proceeds from both houses we are selling. But his house won't close before we need to have all the funds available for the downpayment for the new house, in order to remove all the contingencies on the purchase of the new house.

So we just need the money for about a month, fromt he time we had to demonstrate to the bank that we have the money, until the time the sale of his house closes. (We already have an accepted offer, they just can't close in time for what we need for our downpayment.)

This is the first thread I looked at this morning so I haven't read what's going on with you on your thread. It sounds like you are talking with him about him moving out and you buying him out. That sounds scary. I hope you are seeking legal counsel, if you are discussing such things as buying him out and signing over joint investments. Actually, seek professional financial advice too, especially in the current housing climate. You may sign over investments worth more that the house would really sell for now.

Jayne, I hear you, this is just a temporary arrangement, that you will have enough once both sales go through. Congratulations on the new house! When do you move? How did you two come to a POJA on the house?

What I meant to ask earlier was, is this a home that you could pay for on your own if it ever came to that? The way that you did with the last one for the last year? Even in a two-income family, it's nice to have that flexibility.

I'm glad to hear that you guys found a workable solution for after school for your DSs, too

Thanks for your concern, ears. If I had to, I could pay the mortgage payments just on my own salary, and even have a bit left over for utilities and food. Not a lot, but enough, especially now that the kids are going to public school (not much choice where we are now, but they were going to an awesome Christian school that even my atheist H had to admit was great).

We don't yet know what our expenses will look like once we're in the house, but it looks like we'll be able to pay all the bills with his paycheck and still have some left over for savings, etc. It sounds like I'll be able to put most or all of my pay toward savings - maybe after some initial purchases of furniture, etc. That's gonna feel pretty cool - I've never ever ever been a "kept woman" before!!!

Over all though, he's really a pretty terrific H. I think I tend to think too much all-or-nothing; one bad incident and I start thinking it's all bad. Then he does something like today, spend the whole day driving to the city and searching through our boxes in storage to find some papers I wanted. And he's coming down with a cold.

Yesterday he wanted us to all go on an organized bike ride that was advertised as "family fun". But it was 16 miles. I thought that was too much for the kids, even if it was supposed to be "all downhill". You'd either have to get to the end of the 16 miles to get the ride back to your car, or you'd have to turn around at some point and go uphill the whole way to get back to your car. I remembered the incident in Ottawa and I spoke up about thinking that wasn't appropriate for younger kids, even if it was advertised as family fun. He wanted to call the contact person (organizer associated with a bike shop) and I said that wouldn't convince me - a guy working in a bike shop who is into mtn biking isn't necessarily an expert on what 6 y.o. can handle vs. 10 y.o. I suggested another activity that said it was geared toward "4 to 10 y.o." The kids absolutely loved it, we all had a great time, and H even said on the way home that it had been a very good day.

Reading Senator's thread has reminded me to pay more attention to meeting H's Admiration EN. I took the advice to give him strokes for getting the money from his folks. I also praised him and thanked him multiple times for digging through all our boxes looking for stuff I wanted even though he thought it wasn't necessary.

We close on the house around Oct. 10. I say "around" cus it was sposed to be Oct. 6... then the seller said he needs another week due to the appraisal not coming in by a certain date. So that would be Oct. 13. But Oct. 13 is a bank holiday so H told the realtor to ask that it be Oct. 10, and he scheduled the Canada movers to deliver his furniture on Oct. 10... then he realized that means we should close Oct. 9 if possible, so he asked the realtor to ask that. She said he wouldn't want to do that but she'd twist his arm or something... she said he's just being a... I think the term she used was "crotchety old man" or something. He keeps throwing up snags that are very stressful and making us go back and forth with faxing revisions, like, he wants to keep things that were orig. included in the sale of the house. He's a contractor, he built the house himself, he has a crew of guys so we all think he should be able to move out in just a few days, not two weeks. It took me 4 days to clear out of my house, and that's from the time I first started calling to get a UHaul truck and some guys to help who could move a piano, to driving out of the driveway the final time. And I was a lot less organized with 11 years of junk and 6 years of baby/kid stuff times two.

Sorry, you weren't really asking for so many details about closing on the house, it's just one of the things that's been at the forefront for so long.

I gotta go to sleep now. But *hugs* to you with all you've got going on. Every now and then you say something that makes me realize your H is even worse than I usually think. If I read your post right, he's been influencing your kids to laugh at you. I'm so sorry. I am glad that he seems to be trying to be better now. If he doesn't believe that you have what it takes to carry through with your plans, if he continues to have AOs, then he's gonna be surprised. I know you have what it takes. You're learning and growing and getting better and stronger every day. You DO have the power to make GOOD CHOICES for your life.

*hugs*

ETA: Oh yeah, how did we come to a POJA on the house... we couldn't afford my 1st favorite... then we couldn't afford the next one that we both liked... then I told him his next favorite depressed me (too small)... then I had a few others that I liked but he started liking another one that he didn't like at first, but I'd liked it better than his previous fave, it was in my top three. We looked at all the others I wanted to look at. He'd originally wanted one in town but the small yards depressed me, I want to plant fruit trees and have a garden and stuff. But when we couldn't afford the one that we both liked, which was in town but was on a huge lot that bordered a city "park" that was woods, all his other choices were out of town. The last day that we looked at houses, he'd already decided which was his fave, and I'd narrowed it down to maybe 3, they all had good points and bad points but that last day the one that felt the best for me was also the one he'd picked. I now think it's absolutely the best choice, even better than the ones we couldn't afford. I'm really excited! It's in an area that is very very popular, for good reason. It's like living out in the woods, with an awesome view from being in the mtns, but it literally is 7 minutes to town. I can't wait to move in!

Jayne, thanks for this. I hear you about the all-or-nothing. I like how LA says that we are new every day.

That is so cool how it came together with the house. And the FC time on the weekend. How you trusted your judgement. This is SO big, jayne. How did you decide, and motivate yourself to do this?

Hey jayne, hows it going?

Yu know, i think after the thing about how he took care of you after the twins wer born, this is the nicest thing you've said abut your H.

Hey, you should give him a name, much more personal than your H
umm let me see... the canuck? Silent guy? Strong but silent french canadian who would rather do anything than talk to jayne?
Jeepers, that would make him SBSFCWWRDATTTJ. And I thought thndrnltng or whatever she is was a hard enuff name

I get a little annoyed at wives who (for example) don't have to do anything but sit around, even have maid care while their H's work, then they expect their H's to help with housework... or stuff like that... not saying that's what you do. Just saying that's a pet peeve of mine.

Hi jayne, I wanted to ask you, what is the trigger in there for you about this? I understand why the lifestyle described does not appeal to you personally. It is not the lifestyle that I chose, either. But what I'm asking is, what is the trigger there that it annoys you?

Jayne: Forgive me if I have mentioned this before, but it seems as though your DH has "Demand Resistance". That is, anything you ask him to do he will resist.

That is a symptom of Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.
See:
http://groups.msn.com/OCPD/messageboard.msnw
for more info.