I guess what I was thinking is that I don't want to make this into some big dramatic thing for effect. A separation is a big enough change without receiving a letter with a set of rules like who to use as an intermediary that and when he can see the kids that he didn't have a say in. I agree with the idea in general. I can see how in an affair situation that the Plan B letter can serve as a wake-up call. But I've already said what I have to say, that living like this is painful to me. And he's already said what he has to say, that it's never going to be any better or any worse than it is today.


I am still having a hard time thinking about telling the kids. I'm hoping that we could tell them calmly together. That we're going to be living apart for now. But that they will still get to see a lot of both of us, and that we love them very much, and it's not their fault.

I remember when my Dad had that talk with us. How we thought he was just saying that so we wouldn't feel bad, but that he really couldn't stand to be around us any more. I don't know if it will be easier if they know that we both would plan to spend a lot of time with them. I have been really lucky lately, getting a lot of one-on-one time with both girls. I hope they know that we both want to be with them.

I have been really sad thinking about this. I'm going to miss H, very much. A good friend gave me a great idea, to journal about the things that I have been grateful for with H. To help me bring my focus to how happy I am that we had the time and the memories that we have had together, instead of focusing on what I'm losing.

{{{ears}}}

I so wish I could change things for you. I really am somewhat hopeful that a separation can allow you both to see (especially him) how much you had together and to be willing to work on getting that back, some time in the future.

I can picture him going off to some apartment, being abysmally lonely, trying to drink himself into a stupor, and then realizing after a while how toxic that all is.

Kind of how I feel when I drink lots of Diet Pepsi or wine. After awhile, I just feel kind of 'icky' and crave a bottle of water, you know? You're such a nice person, I just can't see him comparing what he had with you to whatever he thinks he's going to get without you, and not coming to the same conclusion (hint: you're the bottle of water, the good thing, lol).

My dad told me one day he was leaving and completely floored me. Told me, turned around, left, and I never saw him again in any really good capacity. Royally screwed with my head. But that was nothing to what he did to my brother. He was working at a gas station; my dad pulled up to the pump, brother came out, dad didn't even get out of the car, just told him he was moving out, and drove off. My brother later told me (he was 15) that he locked himself in the station's bathroom and had a panic attack for 3 hours.

I tell you this so that you'll see that what will likely be your approach is about the best situation you could possibly come up with.

And I truly truly think the girls will excel once the tension is out of the house.

Best of luck. You have my number, right?

Cat, I don't have your number. I tried to find it after Ike, because I was worried about you! That would be great if you don't mind emailing me.

I don't think H a separation would change H's mind, but would solidify it. The other women he dated before me, that he broke up with, excel in some ways that I don't, more compatible. More glamorous, liked to party more, cooked more gourmet stuff, were more accomplished professionally, had travelled more, and didn't need any help from him around the house. I'm more like the nice girl you bring to visit your mom. Ouch I've got to stop thinking like that. That's one of the things that I liked about Dr. Harleys message about love banks, that anyone can make deposits. Not like there are qualifications before someone will accept them from you.

He used to drink a lot more when we dated. Like he and his friend would share a couple of pitchers, or a couple of bottles of wine. He didn't see it as toxic, he saw that as fun. I hope he doesn't go back to that, especially when he has the kids.

I tell you this so that you'll see that what will likely be your approach is about the best situation you could possibly come up with.

And I truly truly think the girls will excel once the tension is out of the house.

Thanks, cat, for this! I do think they will do great, too. I am so thankful for them.

I'll email you.

You know, you may be right about your H if you separate. Then again, I've found that many people simply aren't the same as they were 10, 15, 30 years earlier. I wouldn't discount the possibility that none of that will appeal to him this go-around.

Then again, I've found that many people simply aren't the same as they were 10, 15, 30 years earlier. I wouldn't discount the possibility that none of that will appeal to him this go-around.

Thanks for the encouragement, cat I do believe that there is a lot about our life today that is fun and enjoyable for him.

H's B just called. He needs to sell his house by the end of October, because he can't afford the monthly payments. Only 5 minutes from here, beautiful townhome on a lake. He is offering an unbelievable price, because of all the recent foreclosures that drove the comps down. I am wondering if H would be interested. It would be a win-win, because H would give him a fair offer.

Maybe that's meant to be?

My plan is to tell to H tomorrow at our MC meeting that I'm ready to separate, and I'd like to make a plan to do that together. I still need to get my Plan B letter together, so he would understand what I would want if he feels differently and wants to reconcile later on. In actuality, I think the Plan B letter is going to me more for me, to get my thoughts together, for my peace of mind. I don't think that he would want to get back together later. I think he's going to be SO relieved when I tell him that I agree with him about a separation. He's said that he's wanted this for a long time.

The MC STILL hasn't called me back, from yesterday. It feels like an AWFUL long time. She usually calls me back very quickly. If she doesn't call me back, I think I'm going to ask H for a few minutes alone with her at the beginning of the session.

LA, does your silence mean that I've offended you? Or that you think I got what I needed to hear?

Or maybe it's not about me, and you've been busy. How are you?

Ears, your husband sounds like a mean old codger who you would be happier without. In fact I bet there is no way to be happy with such a man as him.

I would have divorced him years ago and not looked back. I am amazed at your patience with him.

Get the separation going, you will finially begin to heal from his abuse and then hopefully have the guts to divorce him. Good luck! You deserve a good life.

{{{ears}}}

If you need a place away, you can always come over here.

Stella, thanks for thinking of me as patient. It helps me reinforce what I am telling myself that it's okay, not failing, to go down a different road.

Cat, thank you so much for the invitation.

There is an Alanon convention in town this wekeend, and my friend, who doesn't know about the separation, offered that I could come stay with her at the hotel they are having the convention at. Since this might be the last few days H and the kids have together before he leaves for a business trip Sunday night, this might be a kind thing to both of us to see if her offer is still open. I declined out of my own fears. That H's last impression of me would be someone isolating from our family life, like a rejection, instead of someone at their best at home.

Ears once you get away from him for a few months you will find yourself and your "lost" strength again.

I wish you and Cat could both separate from this icky husband's and recover your precious selves!!!

I'm nothing at you, EO.

I had nothing to say.

Why are you guessing what his reaction will be to your choice to separate?

Are you saying, about H's B's house that you guys could afford to own two houses while living separately?

I don't hold well with the separating so I can think routine, btw. I don't believe in it generally. I know you have studied for three years, pondered and weighed your choices.

Hey, did your long-time male friend contact you this year? Have you guys been emailing?

I'm asking, and I doubt, going for clarity.

You greatly fear failing, doing wrong, doing harm...would you say you fear it so much you do nothing...until you then you HAVE to do (that feeling) and then you do a lot harm?

I'm lost, too, why you need to run this past the MC prior to the session, other than leaving her a simple voicemail or sending an email giving her your Plan B letter and the date you're going to tell H. I would hope you'd tell him within the next session.

Your choices are yours, EO...that's how you determine your life experiences...my silence is no more judgment than verbosity.

Be careful what you ask for...heehee.

LA

Here's something:


Are you saying this is his stated opinion? You aren't basing your choice to separate on that, are you?

I'm for the plan to do this by enthusiastic agreement...to really POJA the separation, visitation schedules, finances, etc. What do you think?

What are you losing?

Are you doing this separation as part of the plan to save your marriage or to end it?

LA

Why are you guessing what his reaction will be to your choice to separate?
Because I fear, LA, and I'm trying to reassure myself that he won't retaliate. I hear you, I can let go of the response, because whatever it is, we will be okay. Thanks for the reminder.

Are you saying, about H's B's house that you guys could afford to own two houses while living separately?
I believe we can.

I don't hold well with the separating so I can think routine, btw. I don't believe in it generally. I know you have studied for three years, pondered and weighed your choices.

I have one friend who separated, went back, separated again before she was detached enough to divorce. I tried staying, LA, and if I thought I could do that until DD7 or even DD12 were 18, I would.

Hey, did your long-time male friend contact you this year? Have you guys been emailing?

No, not this year. He called me Christmas last year, to let me know his mom passed away, from cancer. We have not emailed or spoken outside of that since the summer of last year, when I wrote about it. Talking about it here, I was able to accept taht it was in the past, and move forward. I had talked to my sponsor about it back then, too. She suggested that I think about the time back then a gift, and that today brings different gifts. Reminded me to stay present and enjoy the gifts that are in today. I don't plan to call him at this point in time, either. This is about staying in today, not repairing the past.


You greatly fear failing, doing wrong, doing harm...would you say you fear it so much you do nothing...until you then you HAVE to do (that feeling) and then you do a lot harm?

I am fearful of doing harm. I don't know how to reframe this in a way that I'm not breaking up the kids' home. I am not cause, control, or cure, but I fear greatly that H will start drinking heavily again if I'm not with him.

I'm lost, too, why you need to run this past the MC prior to the session, other than leaving her a simple voicemail or sending an email giving her your Plan B letter and the date you're going to tell H. I would hope you'd tell him within the next session.

Because I want to tell her what I want to say, so that she can help me with the message if my message is skewed. I don't want to blame or hurt him. I see people post here letters before they send them, because they want to keep on message about their hopes, not about how angry they are. I think I would feel better saying out loud to her first.

And I want to talk to her ahead of time because I feel sorry, that I am letting her down. H and the kids.

Are you saying this is his stated opinion? You aren't basing your choice to separate on that, are you?

Yes, this was his stated opinion. I have had a lot of hope, but I'm not accepting what he is telling me. Like they say, "Our thinking becomes distorted trying to force solutions." I am trying to implement my idea of a happy life, and that's not in my power to do for all of us as a family. I can only do taht for myself.

I'm for the plan to do this by enthusiastic agreement...to really POJA the separation, visitation schedules, finances, etc. What do you think?

Yes, that my plan.

What are you losing?

My dream that he wanted this, too. That he wanted to work with me to fall in love again. To POJA, have a Rule Of Protection.

Are you doing this separation as part of the plan to save your marriage or to end it?

To attempt to save my marriage. But I have no power to save this alone. H is doing what he is willing to do. I respect that and am thankful for what he has been willing to do. But I can't keep doing this. I understand that I've failed, LA. I accept that. Where others hung in. I have hung in as long as I was able. Gave it my best shot. Not a perfect one, but the most of what I have.

Ears once you get away from him for a few months you will find yourself and your "lost" strength again.

Thanks, Stella. That's the thing, when H was away, I really felt like myself again. I understand that with time I will get to the point that it won't bother me, even being around it all the time, because I will be so good using my tools. I feel that I am making real progress getting there. I bounce back faster and don't get as down before i catch myself. But I still have a ways to go. I keep falling short. I need to give myself the opportunity to heal, too.

ears, the comment you mkade on Jayne's post about buying H out - does that mean you've had the talk about leaving already?

btw, we have power! *happy dance*