folks i'm back...so you all think i shouldn't bring up the fact that i'm fed up with this whole thing and i'm ready to start the 90 "cooling off" period that is required in our state before proceddings start. she's been planning on filing the first week of october. but i was told by and attorney that there has to be a mda agreement in place in order to do that. because we with finances being what they are talked about using one attorney to cut expenses. I DO NOT WANT A DIVORCE but i also don't want to continue to be here to take care of the kids pay the bills while she has the affair. The way i see it by telling her this we aren't starting the divorce until the end of the 90 days my plan is to implemnet plan A over the next 90 days to the letter and i have the books divorce busting and have ordered surviving an affair.

what troubles me the most about her right now is the fact she's admitted to me that her thearpist told her the "Grass isn't greeener" and it really troubles me that she is not willing to do Marriage counseling in order to save our family it's like she hasn't even thought about how it will effect our sons. she's always saying "oh look at the other kids at school most of their parents are divorced and those kids seem fine to me".

should i have this talk today?

Glad I could provide some entertainment.

We need it sometimes in the middle of all this hurt.....

Would you try and reason with a falling down drunk? Of course not. You would have better results having a "talk" with your cocker spaniel.

Here is what I would do, but we have already told you this and you didn't listen. Hopefully, you will this time.

1. tell her you are not interested in divorce and won't cooperate. Instead, give her a reason to have SECOND THOUGHTS and SCARE HER. Tell her you will countersue for ADULTERY and have the OM dragged into court to give testimony under oath. Let her know you will go for full custody and full possession of the house on the grounds that her affair makes her UNFIT. ]

Explain to her also that you will be suing the OM for alienation of affection. They will both be hauled into court to give sworn testimony about their adultery.

She needs to know she is in for the fight of her life. This will slow her down immensely and give her SECOND THOUGHTS.

See, her affair is temporary, so your job is to drag out any legal proceedings and make it difficult as possible in order to OUTLAST her affair.

2. marriage counseling DOES NOT WORK when one partner is in an affair. If you want to waste money, then flush it down the toilet and save the gas. Get marriage COACHING from Steve Harley, instead, who will assess your situation and give you a workable PLAN to save your marriage

3. EXPOSE THE AFFAIR. EXPOSE THE AFFAIR! This is your most potent weapon against the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy and exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer. Exposure targets are:

1. OM wife
2. everyones parents, yours, hers and OMs
3. employer if a workplace affair or is relevant to occupation, ie: pastor, counselor, etc
4. close friends

And most importantly, your CHILDREN. Tell them FIRST. Your children need to be told as soon as possible. They see all the conflict and don't understand it. If you don't tell them the truth and give them moral guidance, your WW soon will be telling them her "version" of the truth. And it will be a story that glorifies the OM and demonizes you so she can introduce them to the affair. Your job is to protect them from her.

Anyone who wants this Dr Laura segment on MP3, email me and I will send it.

oh no, your kids will not be "ok." They will never be the same. They will suffer psychological and developmental damage that will effect them for life. Children from homes with bad marriages fare much better than children from broken homes. They will never be the same. Print all this out for your wife. And she can also explain to your boys that she is getting divorced so she can pursue her adultery. <-----tell her this!

For your wife's reading pleasure:

An Exploration of the Ramifications...nia State University College of Medicine

• Divorce is an intensely stressful experience for all children, regardless of age or developmental level; many children are inadequately prepared for the impending divorce by their parents. A study in 1980 found that less than 10% of children had support from adults other than relatives during the acute phase of the divorce.

• The pain experienced by children at the beginning of a divorce is composed of: a sense of vulnerability as the family disintegrates, a grief reaction to the loss of the intact family (many children do not realize their parents’ marriage is troubled), loss of the non-custodial parent, a feeling of intense anger as the disruption of the family, and strong feelings of powerlessness.

• Unlike bereavement or other stressful events, it is almost unique to divorcing families that as children experience the onset of this life change, usual and customary support systems tend to dissolve, though the ignorance or unwillingness of adults to actively seek out this support for children.

• Early latency (ages 6½-8): These children will often openly grieve for the departed parent. There is a noted preoccupation with fantasies that distinguishes the reactions of this age group. Children have replacement fantasies, or fantasies that their parents will happily reunite in the not-so-distant future. Children in this developmental stage have an especially difficult time with the concept of the permanence of the divorce.

• Late latency (ages 8-11): Anger and a feeling of powerlessness are the predominate emotional response in this age group. Like the other developmental stages, these children experience a grief reaction to the loss of their previously intact family. There is a greater tendency to label a ‘good’ parent and a ‘bad’ parent and these children are very susceptible to attempting to take care of a parent at the expense of their own needs.

• Adolescence (ages 12-18): Adolescents are prone to responding to their parent’s divorce with acute depression, suicidal ideation, and sometimes violent acting out episodes. These children tend to focus on the moral issues surrounding divorce and will often judge their parents’ decisions and actions. Many adolescents become anxious and fearful about their own future love and marital relationships. However, this age group has the capability to perceive integrity in the post-divorce relationship of their parents and to show compassion for their parents without neglecting their own needs.

Conclusions
• Divorce and its ensuing ramifications can have a significant and life-altering impact on the well being and subsequent development of children and adolescents.

• The consequences of divorce impact almost all aspects of a child’s life, including the parent-child relationship, emotions and behavior, psychological development, and coping skills.

• There is a significant need for child mental health professionals, along with other child specialists, to be cognizant of the broad spectrum of possible fall-out from a divorce and then to provide sufficient support for children of divorced parents in all the necessary psychosocial aspects of the child’s life.

[u][i][b]Abuse Risk Seen Worse As Families Change[/b][/i][/u]

- Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological
parents, according to a study of Missouri abuse reports published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.


- Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.

- Girls whose parents divorce are at significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or their father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University. . . .

- The previous version of the study, released in 1996, concluded that children of single parents had a 77 percent greater risk of being harmed by physical abuse than children living with both parents. But the new version will delve much deeper into the specifics of family structure and cohabitation, according to project director Andrea Sedlak.

IDWAD,

Ok again breathe.....

I understand what you are saying about "I don't want a divorce but I don't want to continue to be here while she carries on her affair...". All of us WS felt that way. Some days you wanted and do fight like mad to keep the marriage, others you throw your hands up in disgust and say "be done with it". It is all normal and what we call the roller-coaster. This will continue for a while. And to be honest, you would still go through these emotions even if you seperated from her and started proceedings.

Here's what you need to realize......you DO NOT NEED TO MAKE ANY DECISIONS RIGHT THIS MOMENT.....in fact, I would implore you not to, because whatever decision you make right now would be based on emotion, not logic. Though, logically you could get a divorce. Heck, she threw away the marriage, discarded it like it was trash, so why can't you??? ....Though logically, morally, and ethically you could get a divorce and no one would fault you for that...

But, you are faced with a hard decision on what to do for you, your children and your family. Not fair you say??? I agree. She did think on this, you say??? I agree. But I don't WANT to have to be the one to do this, you say???? I know, neither did I. But sometimes we are dealt a rotten hand....I honestly truly feel for ya....

Now, what you should do is listen to what we are telling you. Your wife is going to say ALL kinds of garbage in order to get you to go along with her. Get used to it.....and when you are in doubt about this, come ask us....we have all heard these things a million times over...DO NOT LISTEN TO HER...she is going to spew anything and everything to JUSTIFY her actions. Sometimes she will do this nicely (note above with her silliness on the "kids at school".... :RollieEyes:) and other times it will be not so nice (my WS once said during an arguement that he was GLAD I found the emails because it gave him the nads to do what he should have a long time ago.... :RollieEyes:)...

Chin up deary,,,,this voyage is not for the faint of heart, but it will make you stronger in the long run....

not2fun

Call his BS and tell her contact has not stopped. She probably thinks it has stopped if her WH did the usual post D-day dance and threw your WW under the bus routine to her.

Re-expose, rinse, repeat as needed. GF

Please forgive me if I've missed this somewhere:

Are you taking care of your kids while she's living elsewhere?

Are you still in your home?

Have you exposed to everyone, including family, friends, and OMW?

Let me give you a cautionary note:

I sat idle and did little other than agree with my ex that divorce was "what was best". I didn't want it, but let myself get manipulated into it. I gave up everything on the idea that this was all temporary and that I'd get everything back before long.

Don't fall for that. Many men do. They end up broke, with none of their possessions, and separated from the kids while the hope they clung to and the idea that the wife would come back before long rapidly disappears.

It happened to me and many thousands in legal bills later I find mysels with a somewhat ok visitation deal with my kids, but still generally separated from them.

So be still and be calm. There is no rush to divorce. Things suck right now but you aren't in an emotional state to make rational decisions.

If you're out of your home then move back in.

If you're not lawyered up, then do so.

If you're in your home, then don't move out no matter what unless your kids go with you.

We have been. Honestly, we have been. So did she go to the horse camp to meet her OM this weekend? This can’t happen again and she be allowed to return to the marital home. You have to put this boundary down this week and be willing to enforce it.


If she wanted a divorce she would see an attorney today. She’s stalling because she is still uncertain or wants you to be the bad guy who filed.

If you don’t want a divorce and all the damage it will cause your sons:
Don’t lift a finger to help her. Don’t talk about it with her. Don’t agree to anything. Tell her you are going to fight her to the death to save your marriage and if the marriage can’t be saved then you’re fighting for the home, all the money and the boys. Give her fantasy a look at cold reality.

If you want to get this over via divorce:
Get a vicious bulldog of an attorney today who is willing to champion father’s rights and will use your wife’s adultery against her. Fight for everything you can get including full custody of your children.

But contact a lawyer today and start getting real legal advice about your situation and state. TODAY.

Start making the preparations to secure your finances for you and your boys right now.


As said prior, wayward wives have no respect for their betrayed husband. Agreeing to a cheap amicable divorce, silently allowing her to meet up with her adultery partner on the weekends, and PAYING FOR IT does not really help your cause.

She is living every schoolgirls dream of a relationship that even has horsies in it for pity sake.

If you don’t stand up and show respect for yourself, there is no need for her to do so.


Call him back. Don’t ask him if he is committing adultery with your wife because you already know that. You are 17 years older than him. Your wife is 14 years older than him. Put some pressure on him and straight up ask him what are his intentions with YOUR WIFE. In the end he does not want this relationship. It’s a romantic fairy tale fantasy with horses for your WW. It’s just a lot of fun and fluid exchanges for him.

Call his betrayed wife today and start a plan of attack together. I bet she thinks the affair is over after she confronted and exposed. In all odds, POS OM does not want to lose his marriage for a 14 year older woman with children. You need to find out what her status is. Call her today and arrange a mass exposure from both fronts. She very well could help you end this, THIS WEEK! Do you want to TRY to END THIS, THIS WEEK?

Expose to everyone who can put pressure on your WW. This includes your children. They are old enough to comprehend that their mother has brought adultery to the family. They need to know that their father will fight the adultery attacking their family and their futures.



So she got an affair phone after you confronted about the amount of calls and texts with OM. When she says “privacy” she means “secrecy” of course. Privacy is what you need while in the bathroom. Secrecy is required when plotting to destroy the marriage and the family. Marriages cannot survive secrecy between spouses.



I would be willing to bet her toxic friend is also an adulteress and they are a great comfort to each other justifying their immoral family destroying choices. I am sure they talk much about the importance of their happiness.


Marriage counciling is a total waste of time, effort and money with an active adulterer. They are usually only looking for someone who will facilitate the divorce and “helping” the betrayed spouse understand that “the marriage is over and you have to get over it too.”


And how would Napoleon handle this?



So the OM is 30. You have been married 10 years. Is the 17 year old a stepson of a prior marriage? Why did that marriage end?


And if you want a divorce that is fine. It is your right as a betrayed spouse. I would support that decision 100%.

Or you can put your foot down on your wife’s adultery, establish some boundaries and maybe have a chance to recover your marriage. We all will support that 100% too.

It’s not easy either way. Recovery is tough but so is divorce. But you have to make a choice and then a plan. You must make A PLAN.


Wayward lie and rewrite the marrital history. Every time. Everyone here heard that. Put no stock in anything she says about the marriage right now.

IDWAD, I understand you are uncertain whether to save the marriage or cash out (trust me, that’s literally what happens in divorce) of the marriage. However, in either case you do not have to tolerate the adultery being thrown in your face.

Expose today. Call OM’s BW today and see if you can get her support. Call WW’s parents and any siblings who will help you today. Call everyone who can help. See if you can get OM’s BW to do the same.

Get legal advice today so you are ahead of your WW if it goes in that direction.

Call the Harleys today and let them help you more fully understand the beast, and set up a plan.

Please note I used the word TODAY eleven twelve times in this post.

Everything Chrisner says and then some.

You need to warn her and be strong. Warn her that divorce will be brutal and ugly and that you will fight tooth and nail for everything.

Amicable divorce is a fantasy.

I thought it could happen, but it isn't true. You will get angry as you separate yourself over time. Anger will rise as you lose your feelings for her. You'll then wish you had secured your rights as a father and been stronger early on.

Look, it is very counter intuitive but being a pain in her a$$ is what is going to get you respect. Being passive and agreeing to her demands makes you a doormat.

Follow all of Chrisner's advice. He is dead on about what you need to do and it is what I wish I had done 3 years ago and didn't!

You're not different or special. We, strangers on a forum, do indeed know your wife. She's like all the other wayward wives we've seen on this forum. There's nothing unique or special about her. All she says is from the script and we lived the exact same words and actions ourselves.

Don't ignore our advice because it comes from men who have been in your shoes. Some of us were strong. Some of us were weak.

Take a guess who made out better?

READ, RE-READ, AND THEN READ AGAIN....

This is so very very true....Let me tell you....My WS was done (his words not mine...), he got his own place, moved out, furnished it, bought her diamonds ( ), PROPOSED to her, and guess what???

HE DID ALL OF THAT WITHOUT FILING FOR A DIVORCE....

oh, I 100% believe he truly convinced himself he was done. WS have to do this to ease their conscience of their actions. But ya know what, I knew deep in my heart that he wasn't and by some of his actions. YOu must know this.....

Next time she talks about filing for a divorce, tell her to go on ahead. Tell her you can't MAKE her stay married to you, BUT that she also cannot MAKE you go out and file. You'll see, I bet the farm Oct. 6 will come and go without any filing what-so-ever.....

not2fun

ps...and for the love of God, please listen to Chris...he is giving you some fantastic advice....the very same advice I got when I showed up here.....

Was it something we said?

nothing you've said has been wrong...still very cofused

did have the talk though about beginning our 90 day "cooling off" period and was met with anger and venting and that there was no way we could save the marriage because there is no love left. later that night at 3am she got in bed with me from a bad dream and told me we should wait and file after the holidays. my feeling is i don't want to wait 180 days. just because we file doesn't mean we have to begin the divorce proceedings in Jan. we have a couple of years to do that. i just wanted to let her know if she's damned and determined to do this then let's get on with it. i still want to work it out but with where she's at she still says there's no way can reconcile. although she says it over with the OM.

i welcome your comments.

First it was October 6th now it's "after the holidays." She is stalling just like we said she would.




At some point they all say that.

Her words means nothing. Her actions mean everything.

If it is over, she will agree to sending a No Contact Letter as perscribed by this site. My guess is she will resist.

If it is over, she will agree to not go to that horse camp again. My guess is she will baulk at this suggestion.

She still has the affair phone so there is no reason for you to believe they are not in daily contact.

Her words are meaningless. Only her actions matter.

Have you contacted the OMW again? You must do this now.

The power is starting to shift back to you right now but you need to take advantage of it.

She is stalling and back-peddling. Now is the time to sieze your advantage.

Expose. Plan A. Get legal protection advice.

Call the Harleys.

IDWAD,

YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE PLANS.....

You say you don't want a divorce in one breathe, and then you say you do....which is it???????

What are you doing to CHANGE yourself????

What are you doing to meet her EN'S????

What are doing to SHOW her you are the best choice/option available??????

And honestly, I don't want to sound harsh, but DON'T LISTEN TO YOUR "FEELINGS"......time to MAN UP...."feelings" change from day to day, EVEN YOURS......

She told you there is no way to reconcile....YOUR JOB IS TO SHOW HER THERE IS A WAY.....

That is what I did....that is why my WS is home....right now....because I showed him there was a way......He even said this to me the other night.......

You are confused. I'm not surprised, because you are not listening and learning what we are telling you....THERE IS A WAY TO RECOVER YOUR MARRIAGE.....the MB WAY.....Learn the principles behind it and put into practice......

You can do it your way or the MB way, but by the looks of things its gonna be your way, which will result in disaster......

not2fun

WHICH ONE IS IT????

Someone there needs to have a clear thought and head about them, and we ALL know it ain't gonna be her.....so who is it going to be??????

not2fun

i have asked where what EN's i'm not meeting and she just ignores my question and repeats loudly that it's over and she can't imagine spending the rest of her life with me because that would be a nightmare. I am always up around her and happy appearing as if i'm not effected by what's going on. it's damned hard to do. i am waiting my copy of "surviving an affair" and assume it has a more detailed plan for Plan A & B. i am very confused by this all and am really confused that she wanted to wait until after the holidays to file but then she had and emotional dream and i feel that put her in that place. i don't know what i'll get when i get home tonight. i am also working out and being there for my sons when they need me for play or homework etc...i'm even making it a point to clean the kitchen after meals help with the other housework and i've been doing the laundry for years....

Could you read the comments in our posts that we already wrote? I don't see any reason for all of us to write them all over again, do you?

IDWAD,

Yes this is hard, but do you think a divorce will be any easier??????

Marriage is hard work......period.

And yes, reading "Surviving An Affair" will help. Thankfully for me I had read the book BEFORE I came here. It was actually the book that brought me to the sight....and once you read it A LOT of what we say will make sense......

FYI....she is not going to tell you what her EN'S are. She doesn't want to make this any easier for you than she has too. She is living in a drugged-induced FANTASYLAND we around here like to call "Affairland". You see, there are no kids in "Affairland", there is no sickness either, there is no being grumpy after getting your butt chewed out by the boss, it is all hunky-dorrey, roses and posey's.... . In fact, the only "conflict" in "Affairland" is the betrayed spouse. We are the mean, bad people who just "don't want them to be happy"...afterall, if we truly loved them we would just let them go and have their happiness..... (those last two lines where actually quotes from my wayward Husband.....see the fog affects ALL AFFAIREE'S....).

So it is your job to figure out which of the EN'S are her top 3 (ok, I had it easy in this dept. since WS had wrote me a letter some years ago when he was unhappy explaining FULLY what he was unhappy with. I had kept it and it became a HUGE benefit for me.....but most everyone on here didn't have it so easy...).

You also need to eliminate all love busters. This is very hard to do, even during the best of times, so this will really be difficult. BUT it must be done. YOu must SHOW her you recognize which love busters you had and are going to eliminate them.......

And you must do all of this WITH NO EXPECTATIONS....that's right....NO EXPECTATIONS....you will not expect her suddenly drop POSOM, you cannot expect her to express her love when you buy her flowers,candy, ect......

YOu are to show her the kind of spouse YOU CAN BE......that you want to be....that you should have been all along....

Unfair,,,,you bet. Counter-intuitive???...most definately....does it work???....not all the time....but the good news is just when you have reached your breaking point, you get to do Plan B. Which is when you cut her off and show her what is like to live without you meeting her needs and POSOM meeting ALL of her needs....when that happens, "Affairland" usually falls to pieces, because it was never based in reality, honesty, and love to begin with......

And the best part is, you end up becoming the best YOU you can be.....

Let me be frank....my ordeal started Nov. 25, 2008. Not even a year ago. And I will tell you, it was the most devastating, excruciating, exhausting time of my life. I have been through some rough stuff, but nothing compares to this.....but you know what??? I respect, admire and love MYSELF more right now than I did a year ago.

Because I stuck through this ordeal, changed some VERY IMPORTANT things and qualities about myself, and stood up for myself when the time was right......and I am not sure where I or my Marriage would be today if it wasn't for MB......

So, yes it will be hard, but do you have a better alternative????

not2fun

IDWAD,

Listen to Not2. When she came here less than a year ago she was at least as confused by all of this as you are. She didn't want to snoop to learn the truth, didn't want to beieve her H was still in contact...

She learned well.

I'm proud as he// right now, Not.

Mark