You never answered why you are afraid of OW...why are you?

I'm afraid of her because I can see how determined she is to break up our marriage and I can't seem to get my WH to see through her. He feels guilty and mean for hurting everyone but he seems to feel particularly sorry for her, much more so than me. She even said to him that if he left me then I would at least have had the kids to comfort me but she is alone and has nobody. In his mixed up mind this kind of made sense to him. Every day he is away from her he gets more like himself (and it's only 6 days since they spoke) but I think she'll be back tomorrow.
The other reason she scares me is that I hate her so much that she destabilises me. I've been trying to keep the moral high ground here but I may have to go down to her level.

My H felt guilty about hurting OW intially too. Most WS probably don't want to admit what a low life loser OP is because they will be acknowleging that they themselves are the same. He KNEW he had been a scumbag but he also didn't want to blame OW for his decision to be an ahole either. I can understand that but it still doesn't change the fact that OW wasn't a good person and her pathetic behavior after D-day was a wake up call to him. Maybe your H will wake up too but allowing OW to have the upper hand here and hide the affair isn't going to allow that to happen.

You don't have to lower yourself to her level. Exposing the affair, protecting your children from immoral behavior, and telling the truth will set an example of what decency looks like. Thing is you have to be willing to do what WH isn't willing to. Is your H willing to risk ruining his relationship with his children and family for OW? If you divorce would he be willing to have another man be a "father" to his children? Has any of this been pointed out to him?

Hope you are well tully. Did your WH see OW today or have you been able to make any headway with him?

Thanks so much, Black raven. Actually I am not very well. Mentally I think I am holding up reasonably OK (or at least that's the impression I have) but I'm very weak physically. I have lost a lot of weight and I sometimes think I'm going to faint.

Anyway, yes the OW rang him back on Monday with two brief professional questions (or so he says). On Sunday night we prepared a NC email together (this is the second one). We had major disagreements on this email. It was way too mild and told her that he couldn't be in touch any more because I was insisting on it. I wanted him to say that he loved me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. Huge resistance. He made some changes but refused to say that he loved me and agreed that he would send it as soon as he could see her call coming in without answering it. The next day he told me he answered because she didn't ring from her mobile as she usually does so that when the number came up he didn't recognise it.

When he told me this I got so mad and immediately rang a colleague in the next office who is also a friend of ours. I told him that I was very angry with WH and didn't want speak to him but that I wanted to know the surname of Dorothy (a colleague who keeps unwittingly asking the OW to come to the lab). WH heard that it was me and flew home instantly to prevent me from telling. I told him that it was for the best. In an attempt to placate me he agreed to change the email and send it which he did. However it still felt like a dictated email and not a natural one.

In the end I didn't tell Dorothy because I don't know her and don't know how she would react but today, I did arrange to see Agnes, the third party involved in their major project. She was very helpful and said that she would make sure that there were not more meetings between them and that she would talk to them if I wanted her to. I then send WH an email informing him of what I had done and as expected he came home this evening flaming mad.

He believes that he has done what it takes to break it off with her but as long as he gives her the impression that he is with me for the kids sake and prepared to put up with a nagging [censored] like me and is only breaking off contact because I'm insisting on it then she will not go away.

Any suggestions for my next move?

Sorry I meant to add that on Tuesday of last week I went to the OW's colleague and sent a message to her that if she contacted WH again for any reason then I would tell her new boss in her new job. She didn't contact WH to discuss my threat (which feels odd to me) but rang him the following Monday (I know she was away at at a conference Tues to Fri) just to ask two simple professional questions. Or at least this is what he is telling me but it doesn't seem to make sense to me that she would risk my threat just for that when she has always depended on my WH for advice on everything up to this point. I may be overly suspicious but it doesn't feel right to me.

Tully,
You MUST expose to everyone. Family, his boss, friends, etc. everyone. This is the ONLY way. As long as you keep the A to yourself, the longer they will continue to have contact. I know it's hard but you have to do it. Call them today.

He will be mad, but he WILL get over it. He knows that by exposing the A, you are bringing it out into the light of day and he will not be able to continue the A. A's trive in Secrecy and you are letting him continue to keep it a secret. This woman is not going to stop as long as no one knows, she showed this by contacting you H again after you threaten to contact her boss. She thinks you're not going to do it....PROVE HER WRONG AND DO IT TODAY.

You are FAR from overly suspicious, if anything you need to be more suspicous.

He is in contact with OW.
He is concerned about OW's feelings and not your own.
His reason for NC was "because my W made me", not because he wanted it in any way, shape or form.

His allegiance is with OW, not with you. He is only acting like he wants to fix the M so he can say he tried. His heart is not in this.

Expose TODAY.

Tell his mother. You won't be hurting her. HE is the one that hurt her. Ask yourself this: when contact intensifies (notice I didn't say resumes because they are in daily contact) and you guys end up separated or divorced, how are you going to explain to your MIL that you knew about the A for all this time, but didn't talk to her about it? That you didn't respect her enough to ask for her help? That you judged her to be so weak that she couldn't bear this knowledge, so you let her grandbabies' family be ripped apart instead?

EXPOSE NOW.

It does not matter what he thinks. What matters is what you think. If you think he should have ZERO contact than that's where it should be.

tully, you MUST expose the affair. Your M doesn't stand a chance if you let this continue and your H is NOT going to stop it. Look at what it took for him just to write a fricken half [censored] letter! Look how fast your WH jumped on a plane to keep you quiet. We have all been there and exposure is the best weapon. Your WH will be pissed when everyone knows. They all are.

There is no guarantee that your M will survive, but going down this path is only going to rob you of your sanity and your health. Your children DESERVE a healthy mother. Do you have a friend or family member there that you can lean on for support? Deep down you KNOW that this will not go away because your WH says it's over or that OW will give up. As painful as it is to hear, your H is a liar and a cheater. Your H is a LIAR!!! If your M is to stand even a tiny chance to recover from this betrayal, EXPOSE!

Right, I think I'm a bit exposured-out this morning! After the kids were in bed WH was still fuming mad with me and said that 'he had nothing to say to me'.
I said, fine and picked up the phone and rang his brother and told him everything. I then passed the phone to WH who tried to explain himself.
WH says I am damaging our relationship. I said that's not my intention but it you that's killing it. He then accused me of hurting the OW's career and I blew the lid and said that I am defending myself, that she attacked me. I had previously warned her that I would retaliate if she continued to contact him and I didn't even go as far as I threatened. The person I told is not nearly as damaging to her career as the one I had threatened to.
Anyway, I stormed off and said that I had had enough and I wasn't sure if I had anything more to give him. Ten minutes later he poked his head round the door of the bedroom to say that even if I didn't love him any more that he did love me.
Progress of sorts.

Tully,

From someone who has BDTD I want to tell you "professional conversation" feeds the addiction, no matter how minimal.

I worked with my FOM for 2 years after I ended my A and just talking about work related stuff kept me addicted to him the entire time.

As for you title, "What to do when the OW won't give up?" It's not just her, it's your H leading her on to believe it's OK, and to her your empty threats of exposure are a big joke." Expose to her boss and everyone else. If her career is ruined it's her own fault for having an A, not yours for exposing and trying to save your marriage.

I only wish my DH or FOM's W had stumbled across MB when we were still working together and had gone to all lenths to get us from having "work related" contact.

For me, just keeping it work related also involved facial expressions and body language (that told me a lot), also simply hearing the sound of his voice was a fix. Something as minor as a work related email gave me a warm fuzzy feeling even if the message went to all employess.

You are wasting time and energy unless you expose and stop the A.

LC

She called your bluff - or what she thought was a bluff.

Tell her boss.

Otherwise, it was a bluff and she knows she has no consequences for contact your husband for any reason. So far, you haven't exposed in a way that lets her know you mean it!

Do you think WH's brother will inform other family members? Were you present to hear H's "explanation?" At least someone in the family knows but you can't stop there. Anyone of influence in the family should be informed and that includes yours. Unless they are screwed up, family members should want to help you end his A and keep your family in one piece. Exposure at work is necessary.

Good job in standing up for yourself. Keep it up. WH is worried that he can't keep you quiet any longer. He will continue to try and guilt you or butter you up with empty promises and declarations of love/affection. He's also in contact with OW to warn her that you aren't buying his crap anymore. You have the power here tully. You do not need to be afraid of OW. Trust me, if POSOW is THAT concerned about her job and reputation, she is freaking out about now.

This is a FACT! You can't send a drunk into a bar (work) everyday, and not expect him to drink (contact with OW)

Your H cannot even begin to get past his A until there is NO CONTACT at all. NO CONTACT!!!


Had she not had an A with your H her job would not be in jeopardy. It is not your responsibility to look out for her and make sure she doesn't lose her job. YOUR JOB is to get her away from your H anyway that you can



"

Tully...you need to really think about this. Expose to everyone, there HAS TO BE NO CONTACT for your marriage to survive this.

Hello everyone, thanks for the words of encouragement. Black raven, no I'm not sure that the brother will tell his parents mainly because we all know what a family person my MIL is and how deeply affected she would be by this. We all want to protect her. But the brother will put pressure, we spoke this evening.
I'm thinking about who the next most appropriate person to tell is but I have say that I'm exhausted by now.
Jojo, I am convinced that no contact is absolutely essential. I'm sure now that all communication that does take place happens by phone partly because it leaves no trace and partly because all other means are being monitored closely. I'm not sure how to monitor the phone though. Maybe I'm too innocent but I think that if contact is taking place it's probably misplaced gallantry although I still need to stamp it out.
How can I know for sure that there is no contact. What are the signs?

Lifechoice, thanks. I was already sure of the necessity but your comment has really convinced me.
KaylaA, the problem is that she is supposed to start a new job in a month's time. Her current boss is already aware but isn't too condemning because she was in a similar position not so long ago. She had an affair with another married man at work and left her husband for him. I know her quite well and never really got on with her. Today she proved to me that her affinity lies with the OW and not with me.
As for the new boss-to-be there's no point in me telling him now because she won't take the job if I do and as it's a job far away (my WH and the OW had a plan that he would go there 3 days a month and stay with her) and I really want her to take it rather than stay around here.

OK well last night we had a big fight which probably is not good Plan A stuff. I can't seem to get through to him to make him see what he has done and what he is doing still. He thinks that we should forget all about the past and just move on and and act as if nothing happened. He has done nothing for me to reassure me about my doubts (basically shrugs his shoulders and says 'well, if you don't believe me what can I do')Today is his birthday and yesterday I got a present for him (tickets to a concert) and little presents from all the girls. We are going to give them today.
I am worried too because he doesn't seem depressed due to NC and withdrawal although he is a man who manages to suppress feelings a lot, especially negative ones. His attitude has always been to ignore them, pretend they don't exist and eventually they will go away. Some years ago we had a baby who died in childbirth. It was a tough time for me and he was supportive but he never showed much emotion himself and when I encouraged him to do so he just said, 'that will change nothing, there's no point.' A good friend reminded me of the time she was at our house waiting for him to come home from the hospital that night, she tried to hug him and he pushed her away and maintained his exterior of stone. I have always been the only one who could get underneath.

Yesterday I had a bad day thinking about all the conferences and professional events that they went to together and thinking about their plans to spend 3 days a month more or less living together once OW goes away to work in the other lab next month. It kills me that he could have planned to do this while I stayed at home with the kids. I knew he was drifting away and fought hard to prevent him but all that time he was off having a good time with a woman who sent so many messages (by her own admission) trying to persuade him that the best thing he could do was destroy my life. I imagine them planning to remove everything I love (they also wanted 50:50 shared care of the children) while I desperately tried to save our marriage. sorry for ranting here but it's so tough and keeping my cool is so hard.

I'm not sure if I should start a new thread if I have a new question or just add to my old one.
But I'm wondering, how do you know if NC is being maintained? Are there signs?

Tully, don't they still work together? And hasn't your H pretty much told you he won't end contact? Am I missing something here?