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Believer what you said about respect is so true..
My sister has been divorced 3 years now..he EX cheated on her with her best friend of 20 years.They are still together but its a rocky relationship cos of CHILDREN!!!
Anyway my sister and her EX get on very well...BUT she says she lost respect for him..when respect goes so does the love...thats her opinion.


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This thread is ridiculous! Why would anyone advise Believer to go back in to a R with her ex after everything he put her through? Hello they've been divorced for years!

So a BS should ditch their new 'happy' lives just because their rat bag WS decides they want the M after years of D?

Paalease

Last edited by myfamilyilove; 12/10/08 12:07 AM.

Plan D June 08
Me FBS 36
W 38
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Originally Posted by bigkahuna
Originally Posted by believer
BigK - You and I have never agreed on anything,

Really? That's news to me. I think we agree more than we disagree. Oh well.

Well, you didn't agree on THAT, at any rate!!! laugh

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Originally Posted by myfamilyilove
This thread is ridiculous! Why would anyone advise Believer to go back in to a R with her ex after everything he put her through? Hello they've been divorced for years!

So a BS should ditch their new 'happy' lives just because their rat bag WS decides they want the M after years of D?

Paalease

Vladie - everytime Believer posts about this it is OBVIOUS she is still in love with her ex. That is why.

This thread is also months old BTW.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
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I did not wait for divorce to start dating. Only because neither myself nor XH could file until a one year separation had occurred. The affair was the last straw for me. I put up with a lot of crap over the years and finally hit my breaking point (although, it took a couple of months to sink in)

Yes. When I found out, I wanted to save my marriage. But, after the lies, the hateful remarks and the affair itself all started to sink in, I realized I was better then he was, and I could do better as well.

I very quickly began to hate him, and lost all respect and love for the person I "thought" he was.

Anyway, I met my boyfriend in August of 2007. I was smitten with him. He is everything XH wasn't. Honest, reliable, courteous, the list goes on...

My divorce will finally be over in 15 days. It has only taken this long because XH decided to be a jerk and prolong things to piss me off. He filed before I was given a chance, and then decided to hold things up (although, I have yet to figure out why)

Anyway, my relationship has been a Godsend. I am grateful for having this person in my life, and know we will spend a lifetime together happily. If that is a problem for some out there, ah well. I have to live my life. I have no regrets.


FBS - 28

Status: Divorced (thankfully)


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Boy, it is sooooooo tempting isn't it?

You feel so lonely, so needy, so desperate, so vengeful, so jealous, so longing for another to show you attention, validation, and affection...all of that is why you SHOULDN'T.

1. If you are still married, it is morally wrong to date (even if D is iminent and even if your S cheated on you).

2. If reconciliation is possible/desired, you are making that more unlikely by having a revenge affair or rebound relationship.

3. If you are recently D, you are not emotionally healthy enough to date yet. You are understandably raw and highly vulnerable to falling for someone totally inappropriate (someone you wouldn't consider under "normal circumstances") just because he/she "paid attention" or "showed kindness". It is almost like having an A without the moral quandry of actually being married. Otherwise it is the same fantasy addiction with the same likely end results. If the OP breaks it off with you, you will be devastated all the more. If you realize you "aren't ready" you will hurt the OP. If it "works" (temporarily) you will rush into something quickly (a new M?) and almost always end up sorry.

"There is something inherently damning about a new marriage that results soon after a recently ended one without a rest stop in between; these relationships seem to have an almost guarentee of eventual heartbreak and failure."
(Dr. Frank Pittman...paraphrased)

The last thing you want to do is emulate the example of your WS/xWS (with or without the moral aspects of cheating on a marriage) by "falling in love" with someone as a fantasy escape because you are vulnerable to being led astray by "feelings"...it is the road to ruin and a sure way to end up D again in the future.


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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Well if B still loves her ex she needs to deal with those feelings. But going back to him would be disastrous IMO.

As for dating again, its a personal choice. I fully see the wisdom in allowing yourself time to heal. Definitely no dating until you can say "I'm over my ex".

But as for saying its not ok before you get your D certificate and its fine the day after is crazy! In some places you can get a D in a few weeks. For me there was a 12 month seperation period.


Plan D June 08
Me FBS 36
W 38
Married 13/1/09
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Originally Posted by Ms_Manners
I did not wait for divorce to start dating. Only because neither myself nor XH could file until a one year separation had occurred. The affair was the last straw for me. I put up with a lot of crap over the years and finally hit my breaking point (although, it took a couple of months to sink in)

Yes. When I found out, I wanted to save my marriage. But, after the lies, the hateful remarks and the affair itself all started to sink in, I realized I was better then he was, and I could do better as well.

I very quickly began to hate him, and lost all respect and love for the person I "thought" he was.

Anyway, I met my boyfriend in August of 2007. I was smitten with him. He is everything XH wasn't. Honest, reliable, courteous, the list goes on...

My divorce will finally be over in 15 days. It has only taken this long because XH decided to be a jerk and prolong things to piss me off. He filed before I was given a chance, and then decided to hold things up (although, I have yet to figure out why)

Anyway, my relationship has been a Godsend. I am grateful for having this person in my life, and know we will spend a lifetime together happily. If that is a problem for some out there, ah well. I have to live my life. I have no regrets.


redflag redflag redflag redflag redflag redflag

Sorry, MsManners, but this is what EVERYONE says who later looks back at divorce#2. You are having a REVENGE AFFAIR, nothing more. Fantasy escape from your understandable pain, nothing else. Look at what you wrote--it is all there.

OM is a "Godsend"
Sense of entitlement
Scapegoating of stbxH
Elevation of the OM to near-perfect status
Denial of your own responsibility
Lack of introspection and personal growth
Unrealistic 'soulmate' expectations
Sanctimonious denial of 3rd party advice

redflag redflag redflag redflag redflag





xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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I think that it is ok to date, as long as you know, in your heart AND mind, that you are done with your ex.

And you know what? Sometimes it is not a bad thing to be done with your ex.

For me, I am happier than I have been in YEARS. I get along with my ex, for the kids, I most likely would not have much to do with him if I met him now. Which is ok. He lives with a woman. Which is also ok with me. She is good with my kids, her kids are nice to mine, she is a good mom. I am GLAD that he is with someone that really cares about her kids. She is nice to ME. I am nice to her. In fact, under different circumstances, I think that we might even have been friends.

But, the situation is a D. My ex and I just did not grow together, we just did not get along well. He gets along great with his new GF, and she really seems to care for him. And you know what? I would rather that they have a good R, then me and him have a somewhat OK R. We have this one life here on earth to live. I would not want to be one of those couples that just 'stayed' together, when one of them did not have their heart in it.

In my case, and I feel B's case, it was better to leave, and start over. There is nothing wrong with it. People are human. Sometimes we make mistakes. The wisest thing to do is to not make the SAME mistake over and over again....

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Well it's funny how people realise they are "really over their ex" when they are attracted to someone else isn't it. Oh wait! That's what people in an affair do.

Dr Harley says you should NOT be in another relationship until you have been single for 1 year for every 5 years of the relationship.

SO if you are married/in a relationship for 10 years you should be single for 2 years. Be this from the date of divorce or date of separation doesn't really matter. I believe he also says 2 years single minimum.

Vladie - I wish you well mate but I will say, marry in haste, repent at leisure. I very much doubt you are emotionally whole enough to consider remarriage at this point.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
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Originally Posted by Sadmo
And you know what? Sometimes it is not a bad thing to be done with your ex.

This is a good point. Though the purpose of this board is to save M's, not all should be saved. As a BS, you don't necessarily see this right away. I believe this is an aspect of the healing process as well - recognizing the M for what it was. This can be a completely separate issue from the feelings you had/have towards your WS/xWS. And it takes its own time to work through and recognize that in spite of how you feel, the M was toxic to you.

This is also very wise:

Quote
People are human. Sometimes we make mistakes. The wisest thing to do is to not make the SAME mistake over and over again....

The real trick is recognizing those mistakes early enough to prevent yourself from repeating them.

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Originally Posted by believer
BigK - You and I have never agreed on anything, but I think we sometimes think the same way. I think I do have love for my ex - we had a lot in common, plus a whole bunch of kids we raised together.

Unfortunately, I don't respect him.

It would have been easier for all concerned if I didn't date. But I did. I wish I'd followed the Harleys advice. That is the point of my thread.

And I will continue with Mario.

Believer,

I am sure that you have lost all respect and trust for your xWH (as I have for my xWW). Understand that those emotions are just that--"feelings". Feelings depend upon ACTIONS; they do not "change" on their own; they DO change when two people participate/engage in positive actions. MB talks about the policies that specifically further this process.

Yes, you have every right to feel hurt, devalued, and distanced by/from your xWH. Yes, you have every right to reject his tentative advances to "reach out" to you. Yes, you have every right (now) to date someone else or Mario.

But, since you, by your own admission, still love your ex you should consider the possibility no matter how hopeless or far-fetched it seems to you. Stubbornly sweeping your love, history, and past with your xWH under the rug of a new relationship tends to work out very poorly in the long run.

No, not every marriage can/should be "saved" or reconstituted. Just be careful of making decisions based on feelings alone...they are a very poor guide without sound judgment and strong vlaues.

I wish you the best...


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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Originally Posted by ChaiLover
I would wish that for Believer too, but only if he is truly repentant.

Obviously, this is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 639
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Originally Posted by hopenpray
Believer what you said about respect is so true..

Anyway my sister and her EX get on very well...BUT she says she lost respect for him..when respect goes so does the love...thats her opinion.

HNP,

I strongly disagree...that sounds like an excuse to follow "feelings" to me.

You cannot "feel" respect or love for someone when they are doing hurtful and insensitive and immoral things to/in front of you.

IF they show true remorse, genuine repentance, and noble actions in their life, you CAN (and WILL if you choose to be open to it) regain trust, respect, and love for/with them.

Positive emotions are not burned-out bulbs that can never shed light again; they are dormant bulbs to which no electricity is flowing at present. The actions of flipping on the switch (I know it isn't as simple as one maneuver) are what starts restoring and renewing the light of positive feelings.


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
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Originally Posted by bigkahuna
Well it's funny how people realise they are "really over their ex" when they are attracted to someone else isn't it. Oh wait! That's what people in an affair do.

Oh! For pity's sake BigK - will you stop making logical sense?
wink

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Originally Posted by pomdbd3
To all the betrayed:

I strongly recommend avoiding new relationships for a good while after divorce.

I jumped into a very short lived relationship with a woman just a month after the divorce and it was painful for the two of us. I cried the day after I spent the night with her because I was still very much in love with my ex and felt like I had cheated in my heart (we were officially divorced).

That kind of baggage is bad for you and very unfair to the new person.

I hooked up with someone else a few months later, but I was still to hurt and angry to be able to give that a chance.

I then joined eHarmony a year after the D and it was still too soon.

I've taken a break since January, partly unwillingly, but it's been good for healing purposes.

There is a woman I do like, but we're friends and have kept it at that level for many, many months.

While I've been eager to elevate it to the next level, I've also welcomed the absence of drama that a new relationship would bring and it has given me a chance to start breathing again.

The devastation after a divorce is terrible and a quick relationship with someone else simply serves to cover up that pain. Facing that pain and processing it is a necessary step. We otherwise jump into relationships with new people that we wouldn't get involved with otherwise simply because we don't wish to be alone.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love nothing more than to have someone to cuddle with while watching a movie or to curl up next to at night, but I don't want it to be just anyone.

So I continue my break. If it happens, it happens. I am not out and proactively looking for it.

Could my ex come back and rethink things someday like some of you? I don't know, but I highly doubt it and the damage done has been so great that I seriously doubt I'd consider it at all if the possibility ever came up again.

So take the break. It's an opportunity for personal growth.

The Harleys have good advice.

I am struck by how similar the situations are between a WS's affair and a BS's "jumping into a R too soon". The ONLY difference is, assuming the D is legally final, the BS's "new R" is not morally adultery. Yes, that is very important and removes some (note: NOT ALL--see above post) guilt from the situation, but it does NOT change the underlying emotional dynamics. These dynamics are virtually identical in the A and "new R too soon" situations.

Both are borne of neediness and often desperation for approval and validation
Both often involve a partner whom is clearly "not right" and someone you wouldn't choose to be with under "normal circumstances"
Both are fantasy escapes from lonliness to cover up unresolved "baggage"
Both often hurt the participant and people "on the other side"
Both often result in R failure that is more devastating then it would normally be

When any of us are hurting and emotionally wounded, we are highly susceptible to allowing our "new feelings" to over-ride our values, standards, and boundaries. We want someone to talk with, cuddle with, feel accepted by, have SF with, and enjoy recreation with. That is what affairees do as well when they cheat. Just don't sell out yourself in a post-D "new R" and make sure that you are mentally healed enough to not expect your new love interest to "make you happy" and "make it all right" with whatever unmet needs/unresolved pain you are experiencing.


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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Originally Posted by bigkahuna
Well it's funny how people realise they are "really over their ex" when they are attracted to someone else isn't it. Oh wait! That's what people in an affair do.

BINGO!


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,531
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Respect is not a "feeling". It is a measure of esteem, or an opinion of someone. It is not the same as love. You can respect people you don't love (for example, a teacher or a business adversary) and you can love people you don't respect (for example, a not-so-great parent). But how do you have a relationship is intimate as a marriage without it?

I agree that respect can be regained, but also that it is probably more difficult than love. Because respect is an opinion, it is based on past experiences and observations - none of which can be changed. Even if the WS does a complete turnaround and keeps it up for years and years, the A still happened. And for many WS's, the A was only one of many things they did for the BS to lose respect for them. It's never simple.

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Originally Posted by Tabby1
Respect is not a "feeling". It is a measure of esteem, or an opinion of someone. It is not the same as love. You can respect people you don't love (for example, a teacher or a business adversary) and you can love people you don't respect (for example, a not-so-great parent). But how do you have a relationship is intimate as a marriage without it?

I agree that respect can be regained, but also that it is probably more difficult than love. Because respect is an opinion, it is based on past experiences and observations - none of which can be changed. Even if the WS does a complete turnaround and keeps it up for years and years, the A still happened. And for many WS's, the A was only one of many things they did for the BS to lose respect for them. It's never simple.

Tabby,

Have you ever known someone that you did not esteem (for whatever reason) that you later came to respect because of the way they "turned themselves around" and the fact that you "gave a second look"?

Yes, the A did happen and yes, the WS is RESPONSIBLE. You can choose to write them off forever or consider that 2nd look if & when he/she changes the game. It isn't simple, you are correct, but it is not set in stone ("I lost my respect and will never get it back") either. It is a DECISION not an involuntary mandate.


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
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Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by MrsWondering
Wow...I so agree with this BK...It's been very obvious to me as well that you still have feelings for your ex, Believer.

Unfortunately, "feelings" alone don't a good M make.

IMO the very LAST thing "Believer" should do is seek to restart a relationship with her XH. She should seek to do just the opposite.

I agree 100%. There is zero reason to go back to him. He is a bad risk that she is better off leaving behind.

I also do not believe that respect can be reclaimed in many situations.

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