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Dr Harley says you should NOT be in another relationship until you have been single for 1 year for every 5 years of the relationship. well, that is easy for Dr H to say when he hasn't wasted year after year trying to recover with a lousy cheating spouse. Different people are ready to date in a healthy fashion at different times and an arbitrary number like 1 for every 5 does a disservice to people that are ready to move on with their lives. Following this advice, many would see their remaining potential child bearing years slip away. Sorry, I think it is a matter of how well a person has moved on. Some people are ready right away...some never are.
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Respect is not a "feeling". It is a measure of esteem, or an opinion of someone. I agree. IMHO, Believer saying she doesn't respect her exH, is just the short way of saying she isn't going to make herself vulnerable to him again. In which case, whatever feelings she may have for him are irrelevent. Once a person has decided they will not risk a person hurting them again, I don't think that can be turned around.
Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
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Respect is not a "feeling". It is a measure of esteem, or an opinion of someone. I agree. IMHO, Believer saying she doesn't respect her exH, is just the short way of saying she isn't going to make herself vulnerable to him again. In which case, whatever feelings she may have for him are irrelevent. Once a person has decided they will not risk a person hurting them again, I don't think that can be turned around. yep
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Well if B still loves her ex she needs to deal with those feelings. But going back to him would be disastrous IMO.
As for dating again, its a personal choice. I fully see the wisdom in allowing yourself time to heal. Definitely no dating until you can say "I'm over my ex".
But as for saying its not ok before you get your D certificate and its fine the day after is crazy! In some places you can get a D in a few weeks. For me there was a 12 month seperation period. I agree 100%
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I have to live my life. I have no regrets. Good for you...and you shouldn't regret it one bit. Be happy.
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To all the betrayed:
I strongly recommend avoiding new relationships for a good while after divorce.
I jumped into a very short lived relationship with a woman just a month after the divorce and it was painful for the two of us. I cried the day after I spent the night with her because I was still very much in love with my ex and felt like I had cheated in my heart (we were officially divorced).
That kind of baggage is bad for you and very unfair to the new person.
I hooked up with someone else a few months later, but I was still to hurt and angry to be able to give that a chance.
I then joined eHarmony a year after the D and it was still too soon.
I've taken a break since January, partly unwillingly, but it's been good for healing purposes.
There is a woman I do like, but we're friends and have kept it at that level for many, many months.
While I've been eager to elevate it to the next level, I've also welcomed the absence of drama that a new relationship would bring and it has given me a chance to start breathing again.
The devastation after a divorce is terrible and a quick relationship with someone else simply serves to cover up that pain. Facing that pain and processing it is a necessary step. We otherwise jump into relationships with new people that we wouldn't get involved with otherwise simply because we don't wish to be alone.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love nothing more than to have someone to cuddle with while watching a movie or to curl up next to at night, but I don't want it to be just anyone.
So I continue my break. If it happens, it happens. I am not out and proactively looking for it.
Could my ex come back and rethink things someday like some of you? I don't know, but I highly doubt it and the damage done has been so great that I seriously doubt I'd consider it at all if the possibility ever came up again.
So take the break. It's an opportunity for personal growth.
The Harleys have good advice. I am struck by how similar the situations are between a WS's affair and a BS's "jumping into a R too soon". The ONLY difference is, assuming the D is legally final, the BS's "new R" is not morally adultery. Yes, that is very important and removes some (note: NOT ALL--see above post) guilt from the situation, but it does NOT change the underlying emotional dynamics. These dynamics are virtually identical in the A and "new R too soon" situations. Both are borne of neediness and often desperation for approval and validation Both often involve a partner whom is clearly "not right" and someone you wouldn't choose to be with under "normal circumstances" Both are fantasy escapes from lonliness to cover up unresolved "baggage" Both often hurt the participant and people "on the other side" Both often result in R failure that is more devastating then it would normally be When any of us are hurting and emotionally wounded, we are highly susceptible to allowing our "new feelings" to over-ride our values, standards, and boundaries. We want someone to talk with, cuddle with, feel accepted by, have SF with, and enjoy recreation with. That is what affairees do as well when they cheat. Just don't sell out yourself in a post-D "new R" and make sure that you are mentally healed enough to not expect your new love interest to "make you happy" and "make it all right" with whatever unmet needs/unresolved pain you are experiencing. Very well put! Excellent post.
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Once a person has decided they will not risk a person hurting them again, I don't think that can be turned around. I'm not diagreeing with anyone's right to choose or 'risk' anything with the ex. But, note what you wrote above--it is a voluntary DECISION--it is not that "it can't be turned around". The latter is what every wayward says when they justify the A by convincing themselves "I just fell out of love with my S and in love with OP...I can't help my feelings and I have to follow my heart". No, you don't HAVE TO...you DECIDE TO.
xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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Well, here this thread is again. I really believe in what the Harleys say. I think I probably could patch things up with my ex. But I don't RESPECT him anymore. And I think most women need to have respect for their man.
That is why I fell in love with him in the first place.
Now I don't have any desire to work on things, talk to him, or have him in my life.
And by the way, my new guy is still gone TAD and things are NOT going well. We are trying to work things out, but the distance and time away are killers.
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And by the way, my new guy is still gone TAD and things are NOT going well. We are trying to work things out, but the distance and time away are killers. Believer, You must have read my mind. How the heck did you know that I was going to ask you about that? BTW. what is TAD?
Last edited by imagine; 12/10/08 01:38 PM. Reason: Formatting
But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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TAD is temporary additional duty, or something like that. He has been in Washington, DC for about 6 months now. It started out as a 3 month assignment, and there is no end in sight.
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I have to live my life. I have no regrets. Good for you...and you shouldn't regret it one bit. Be happy. Thank you MEDC. I spent two months of my life wishing and hoping my WH would come to his senses. Then it hit me. Which one of us needs to get real? We had no children to put through this drama, and I had no real desire to fight for someone who could not respect me. All the power to everyone out there who thinks of me as "still married" The only reason this was not over in June of 2007, is the laws in my country. I could not file for divorce until a one year separation had been completed. Otherwise, it would have been done already. Plan D will be final on Christmas Day. It gives me a reason to celebrate. Why? Because it finally puts an end to the madness that was my previous life. WH made his bed, now he lies in it. Entitlement? Fine. I feel entitled to some happiness, and I have it. Should I have gotten into this relationship as quickly as I did? Maybe. Maybe not. It was tough at times in the beginning. I found myself sad over the situation of being hurt, and worried that it would happen again. I talked with my boyfriend, and he supported me. There is nothing in my relationship that is "affair-like" It is a completely open and honest relationship. No half truths, no lies, and no hiding. I would not change a thing about where I am. Recovery was a tough gig. And, anyone who thinks it is too soon can just go on worrying about themselves. I am just fine. No "red flags" necessary.
FBS - 28
Status: Divorced (thankfully)
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Tabby,
Have you ever known someone that you did not esteem (for whatever reason) that you later came to respect because of the way they "turned themselves around" and the fact that you "gave a second look"? Absolutely I have. I'm not saying respect can't be regained, or even gained for the first time for someone you previously did not respect. It just doesn't happen easily, that's all. Yes, the A did happen and yes, the WS is RESPONSIBLE. You can choose to write them off forever or consider that 2nd look if & when he/she changes the game. It isn't simple, you are correct, but it is not set in stone ("I lost my respect and will never get it back") either. It is a DECISION not an involuntary mandate. It is still up to the WS, not the BS to change the game before respect can be regained. In some cases, perhaps Believer's and several others here, the level of respect is so low, the amount of change demonstrated is just far too unlikely to make it worth waiting for. After all, we cannot control the actions of others, but we can protect ourselves from them.
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Remember, my ex's affair started in 2002. I tried to save the marriage for 3 and a half years. The affair ended less than 2 weeks after our divorce was final. Then it took another 8 months before he came out of the fog.
His latest letter said that we made a covenent with the Lord, and he realizes that I am done with him, but he will always love me and we will be reunited in heaven.
Of course, this is the same man who claimed that the Lord blessed his affair with his soulmate..............
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His latest letter said that we made a covenent with the Lord Funny how the covenent was construed as merely a contract when he wanted to have an A. Oh those wayward justifications and interpretations.
BS - me 56
XWH - 57
12/25/06 - Dday - WH promised NC. Plan A in effect. Thought we were in recovery.
6-3-07 - Dday#2 Found out NC never took place and A never ended. Found MB NC promised again, but WH would not write NC letter.
9/07 - Dday #3. Still lying and sneaking around. Plan B implemented
WH wants nothing to do with me
Divorced as of 12/09 after 36 years
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His latest letter said that we made a covenent with the Lord Funny how the covenent was construed as merely a contract when he wanted to have an A. Oh those wayward justifications and interpretations. I hate this. Adding to Chai's comment... Ex 20:7 "You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, For the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name." Your xH is under judgment.
But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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Remember, my ex's affair started in 2002. I tried to save the marriage for 3 and a half years. The affair ended less than 2 weeks after our divorce was final. Then it took another 8 months before he came out of the fog.
His latest letter said that we made a covenent with the Lord, and he realizes that I am done with him, but he will always love me and we will be reunited in heaven.
Of course, this is the same man who claimed that the Lord blessed his affair with his soulmate.............. Geez, I'm sorry...that totally sucks and I can't blame you for having "moved on" after trying and being rejected for so long. Boy oh boy, sounds like your xWH and my xWW were fraternal twins separated at birth. Same LTA, same foggy denial of our vows' true meaning, same claims that God had blessed their "soulmate" affairs, etc. I'm sure I will get the "covenant" speech some day too...funny that they didn't see their M as a covenant when the BS was telling them that years prior during the A, huh?
xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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I personally believe that there must be a point in all of this when the BS says enough is enough. Believer seemed to have given so much to attempt recovery. There shouldn't always be that get outta purgatory free card for the WS, IMHO. There has to be a point where they are left dangling and the BS lets go and moves on. It's unhealthy to cling to the HOPE for years and years that the WS will POSSIBLY, MAYBE turn things around.
As for respect, which is not a feeling, sure it can be regained, but at what point do you decide that that does not necessarily permit the same level of entry back into your life.
Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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Once a person has decided they will not risk a person hurting them again, I don't think that can be turned around. I'm not diagreeing with anyone's right to choose or 'risk' anything with the ex. But, note what you wrote above--it is a voluntary DECISION--it is not that "it can't be turned around". The latter is what every wayward says when they justify the A by convincing themselves "I just fell out of love with my S and in love with OP...I can't help my feelings and I have to follow my heart". No, you don't HAVE TO...you DECIDE TO. I don't dispute that it is a choice. The reason why I conclude it can't be turned around is because most people do not change their mind about these types of decisions, without evidence. They typically need this evidence to warrant a change of heart and the evidence can not be obtained. I say that because it is a catch-22. In order for a person to proove they will not hurt you, you have to put them in a position to hurt you. If you are unwilling to do the later, no "proof" will ever materialize. The "choice" is a leap of faith, which most people will not make. IMHO, where that differs in the case of A's is that WS don't have to make this leap of faith. They typically believe the "proof" of their feelings is all around them. Both when they leave the M, and when/if they return to the M. When they leave the "proof" is an illusion driven by their fantasy. Getting them to return is all about "prooving" it is in their best interests to return.
Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
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I always comment here on all the bad things about my ex.
But I fell in love with him because I respected him and he was a Godly man. I knew him for about 5 years before we started dating. We worked together. He was admired at work.
We attended the same church and were very active in it. He was always such a good man. He would treat the President of the country and a homeless bum the same way.
The affair completely changed him.
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We attended the same church and were very active in it. He was always such a good man. He would treat the President of the country and a homeless bum the same way.
The affair completely changed him. Boy can I relate. My H was the same way. But I really like this thread. Had many questions and wondered. I like all the input and views on both sides. Kinda lean more to the "Not" side though.
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10
Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08
Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08
Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08
Plan B 11/15/08-currently
01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL
01/31/09 Planned brief contact
02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL
Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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