I think this is Steve's email

Admin@marriagebuilders.com

Thanks a bunch! By the way, I asked my H to join me for lunch tomorrow and he said YES !

Good...make sure you relax and smile from your heart.

MMM, you can email me anytime at best.nutrition@gmail.com
Genoveffa

I don't know your situation well enough to form an opinion of whether or not it would "make them more willing to recover the M" or not. However, from what I read I seriously think it would do more harm than good at this point.

It would probably appear manipulative and more focused on what "you" need, and "your" needs are NOT a focus of willingness to recover the marriage right now.

With respect to your comments on Steve's unwillingness to analyze the abuse, that seems to be more of "treating the symptoms" and not getting to the underlying cause of the "illness." If you and your marriage survive, then hooray!, SH gets the credit. If it fails, it's your problem for not doing the right things (even though the right things were not addressed and were left up to you).

It may a sound good. You might like not having to confront the real issues that need changing. No one "likes" pain or being uncomfortable. But it is a counselor's job to BE the one who holds both spouses accountable for their issues in the marriage and changes that need to made in themselves. Left to oneself, that sort of introspection and change is usually superficial at best, and avoided at worst.

What's the bottom line? A BS is NOT going to recover a marriage unless they SEE real and permanent changes in the behaviors that have been killing their love and commitment to the marriage and, thereby, over time, begin to TRUST again. That sort of trust, vital to any marriage, is EARNED over time by observation and experience.

It is why I have advocated for years that it is the BS who is "in control of recovery," not the WS. The WS already chose, and now that the result of their choice is impending, NOW they want go back and have a 'do over' chance at the marriage, but under terms that they want to dictate or establish. Most BS's, faced with that attitude, will decide that reality should be 'accepted' and not 'fought,' and will acquiesce to choices already made by the WS to NOT be married and not have a God-centered, God-honoring marriage.

I would agree with these statements. . .although I do have a question -- my situation is a little backwards -- since my H is the one that left the home, originally I would have considered him the Wayward spouse and me the betrayed spouse. But by your definition above, does the abuse I inflicted really make me the WS and him the BS?

Thanks for the encouragement -- I really do love my H. I know that is probably hard for people on this forum to believe. When I write down in black and white all the things I did, I get physical chest pains. I'm sure there is more than I remember. I don't know how he put up with me and my insanity for all those years.

Had lunch with my H and took him the jams and jellies. He liked them a lot --it made him smile! We went to a restaurant in the middle of downtown (equal distant from our workplaces) but there is also the same restaurant closer to my work. he said "maybe next time we can go to the place near your work." I said "okay that would be great." He also put some cheese on one of his crackers and gave it to me -- like we would normally do in the past. At the end when we went to say good-bye, he took a step forward and we embraced ! And, in a spur of the moment, without really thinking, I kissed him on the neck where I was hugging him. I almost said I love you out of instinct but I caught myself!

anyway, it sounds like the door is open to another lunch date. We kept it light and talked about what each of us was working on at work and about hockey.

How are you MMM?

We haven't heard from you for a while. Just thought I'd check to see if you are ok.

I'm good -- thank you very much for asking ! At this point, I am just wondering what to do next in terms of contacting my H.

We have a wood burning fireplace and he always built the fires because one time I tried and knocked the flue out of alignment so he forbid me to touch it ! :o) Well, I got wood delivered for this year and am a little nervous about trying it so I thought maybe I could give my H a call and he could explain his technique of sorts. I don't know. . .just looking for a way to stay connected to him without being pushy, you know?

As far as me, well, I've been rereading the posts of the last couple of weeks and letting it all sink in. I guess my overall mood has been sadness . . .I am sad because I hurt my H . . .and it was not a healthy way to behave. It is tough to figure out what is healthy when I am surrounded by unhealthy, dysfunctional family. Especially when they tell me that my H is overreacting and I wasn't that bad. I keep telling them: "I was that bad and it's not normal and it's not right." So, all in all, trying not to get discouraged, I guess.

Hi Gang -- I have another land mine to navigate.

My H and I are both on my company's health and dental insurance because it is cheaper and better coverage.

Our enrollment period for 2009 coverage begins 10/27 and ends 11/7.

How do I bring this up with H? I don't know if he is going to get his own insurance thru his work or not. he has not mentioned it.

The reason this is so important is: whatever I pick now can not be changed in 2009 unless we get a divorce.

Obviously I don't want him to go out on his own. . .one more thing that splits us apart. Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

I would just ask him straight out. Or e-mail him. It won't affect anything. Ask him if you should renew the insurance with him on it or if he is going to go thru his work.

Nothing you do or say will affect the situation very much now. Unless you are mean, then it will affect it. For the worse.

Oh, no, I don't plan on/want to be mean at all ! But I don't want to be reduced to a blubbering mess either and resort to begging and pleading (old behavior, doesn't work, not attractive, not healthy) BUT as we know, old habits die hard so I have to be mentally prepared for the situation, you know?

Am I missing something? This is just about insurance coveradge right?

Can you ask him a yes or no question if he wants the insurance or not? YES? or NO?

Should I put you on my plan for 2009 and you pay me back "$$" a month for your half?

YES?

OR:

NO?

Yes, I suppose it is just about health insurance. I guess I was reading into his response: if he says no, then that indicates "I don't plan to come home in 2009. . .or ever."

That's why I was mentally preparing for a no. I guess I probably shouldn't look at it that way, huh?

You should ask him to get his own insurance and he'll tell you if he can't.

My ex deleted our kids from his insurance without even telling me and since I don't have coverage from work for them, I ended up getting insurance for them on my own.

It's not good to keep any financial accounts together once you know you will divorce for good. It leads to stress.

I wouldn't delete him without talking to him about it -- he has had some health problems in the past and I wouldn't strand him without coverage. I know for a fact that some of his specialists aren't in the plans offered by his work. So if he decides to go on his own, he will have to fish around for new Drs.

Thanks for the input.

MMM, Tell him you received insurance renewal notification and and Ask him if he would like for you to renew the plan. Period. NO other comments to that. (don't go on saying: because i know you are seeing some doctors you will not be able to see if you go on a different plan etc....)he knows that. Plus, if he says he is going to get his own insurance i would not take it as a sign he is not planning to come back. MMM, at this stage he probably has no plans for a future period, so again, do not take it personally. Every little thing you do that shows him you are taking a different approach from the past is a step forward. See it that way.
Do you have any plans to meet him for lunch? Has he contacted you recently? The idea of asking him about how to build the fire is a great one. Again, should you ask him that, make it very short, kind and to the point. No manipulating words or expectations hiding in the paragraph of your short email. That's what i would do now (in the past i would have written a long email with tons and tons of information, thoughts and what have you...)

I do not have plans to meet my H for lunch as of yet. I will email him about the fireplace flue today or tomorrow and maybe getting together for lunch will come up.

I probably won't mention the insurance thing until the end of the month -- enrollment starts 10/27.