HTH,

I am sorry I am making you mad and crying. It wasn't my intent. My intent was for you to think about how you are doing things and how it may cause your problems.

Why you are stooping to the level of begging and pleading? Why are you so desperate? Do you think this is the best way, the only way? Do you think it makes your husband proud?

I can understand that you have made a mistake and that it risked your marriage and your children of a family and you want to make up for it and you'll do anything to do this. It is noble.

But, is begging and pleading and being desperate the best way? If you do everything your H will/is likely to become or is a freeloader. And that makes for a lousy marriage.

How can he trust you. You say you only had an EA, but you kept that a secret. He's likely waiting to learn that it really wasn't just an EA, but it went physical.

Even if it didn't you have to understand that you've already broken trust.

You've already abused him with betrayal.

Does it make his hurtful behavior better?

Nope.

But it does explain it.

You've wounded him, and he's not sure that the wounds are all that he'll suffer.

What do wounded people do? They attack.

He doesn't trust you. He may never be able to trust you.

It may take a year or more of consistent trustworthy behavior on your part to regain his trust.

Your affair betrayed him, even if it was "only" an emotional affair. After reading all about how women are far more interested in the emotional aspect of relationships, wouldn't it stand to reason that an emotional affair, when interpreted through the conventional wisdom about the typical woman, an emotional affair would be a very serious thing to him.

It's not "only" an emotional affair to him.

I never meant to downgrade my EA to "only" status. I have had more than 2 years of trustworthy behavior- actually, 2 years this month the last crap came out. As recently as 2 days ago he thought he caught me in a lie and was completely wrong, and luckily it was proven to him by looking at the cell phone bill online. I AM trustworthy, and I AM willing to prove it over and over forever. WHat I am NOT willing to do is have him run me over with a mack truck repeatedly.

TJD- so when he says he wants a divorce, when I don't do something he wants, I just say okay and move out? Like that's practical, first of all, and it would in effect end my marriage. Maybe that is what needs to be. I just seem to have it in my head that keeping my marriage intact for my children is of utmost importance. Not like I havent' cried about this at work more than once....

LA. maybe you're right about the final end being a divorce. If it weren't for my children I'd be fine with it, with the seperation at least, hoping we'd get back together but understand if we don't. however, I do believe in extraordinary sacrifice for my children.

Nothing changes because I am not changing, I guess. He's asked me to lose weight, we've joined the Y, which I'm glad of, he's asked for SF changes which I've made, I'm transparent, trustworthy....honestly, maybe divorce is the only way, but it's WAAAAY easier said than done. I am trying to make changes.

Enlightened Ex, just like I have "reasons" for my EA that sounded valid at the time, there are no good reasons for what he is doing to me. Does a WW who has in reality earned her F for all intents and purposes still get treated badly? Like, it doesn't excuse my EA but it does explain it? Does he get a pass for all he does because of my horrible mistake???? I hope you see that just because he has great reasons for doing what he is doing, that is what a WW or WH thinks- they have great reasons. There are no reasons.

I'm not saying divorce...I'm saying get out of the way of his consequences...you're tangled in his stuff.

Step off.

You choose...to do threats and ultimatums...to ACCEPT SD's...then you'll do them as well. You won't see yourself doing them, either.

There are many steps to divorce...many chances to reconnect, reconcile, change minds and lives...there is no instant dissolution. Sounds to me you seem to think one step does it all.

No way. In your EA, one step didn't do it all, did it? Do you think so?

LA

Wow, you seriously jump to conclusions. And those conclusions are an option but I wasn't even close to suggesting that.

I mean isn't there a middle ground. Can you negotiate, do you know how? Can't it be good for you and good for him.

Rewarding demands is another poor strategy. Negotiate. Policy of Joint Agreement. This will have a huge impact on your marriage if you can follow it and implement it in your marriage.

But BH is all or nothing. Point of no return, no hope if it progresses to a seperation. I had better be totally realistic about that, it will be a D. At least I had better be prepared for the worst if it comes to it.

Yes, totally tangled in his stuff- is there a way to separate without actually separating?????

According to BH, negotiation means everyone loses.

There has never been negotiation in our marriage, it's always his way or the highway. The couple of times I've done what I felt best against his desires, he has been furious. He has gotten over it, but probably not forgiven and that's also playing in to how he feels about me.

If this is what he believes, you will be posting here for many more years to come.

I wonder why he thinks this way do you know why? It sounds like you continue to help him to believe this way by doing whatever he says.

If you can't convince him negotiation is a win/win deal you need to leave or expect more of the same.

you are doing your children a grave disservice by remaining married to this man. Unless he changes, he is a danger to their emotional well being.

Sounds like you don't believe in negotiation either. Completely disregarded his desires. It needs to be win/win negotiation considering each others desires.

This takes alot of practice and you've got a long way to go.

how can she negotiate with someone that won't engage? either she does things HIS way or not at all. That sounds VERY unreasoanble.

That is a different issue. I sensed that she felt she was negotiating.

TJD, it is ONLY his desires that are EVER taken into account. Oh, he'll do things I want if he WANTS to. But I am to do what he wants regardless, esp with SF. Luckily he wants to do things I like too or I'd never "get mine."

Our negotiation goes like this: BH "I want a divorce. You need to move out."
ME: "Please no, I'll do anything you want! Don't do this to the kids! Please Please Please!!" All the while crying and begging and pleading on bended knee, literally.

Not attractive.

So now I am trying to make the changes that have, to be honest, been halfhearted at best.

And I have built up so much resentment with the way things were before the EA that I have taken the poison and am expecting him to die.

I don't know what to do- and I DID go to a counselor and he found out and threatened divorce.

That isn't negotiation that is following orders.

Do you believe that negotiation is win/win in good marriages? Do you believe in the Policy of Joint Agreement to create a good marriage?

Demands are abuse. Abuse insures a crappy marriage and a lousy place to raise children. Do you believe this?

If he believes in demands he believes in abuse. Abuse is what is happening to you.

If he wants a divorce he should leave not you. Why do you beg and plead for more of the same when it is abuse and raising children in an abusive setting is horrible?

What am I missing here? Do you not believe in these things?

I stand by my original assessment (including my 'vulgar language')

Listen and repeat...

"I accept you saying you want a divorce and you desire for me to move out. I know you have this desire. I'm choosing not to move out right now."

Acknowledges you heard his desire and states your own choices. Period. He is choosing not to file, you understand? He's stating a desire, not an action. Are you truly begging him to not have that desire?

LA

Of course I believe in negotiation, as medc said, it's not negotiation if one person refuses to engage.

I beg and plead to keep my marriage together as the children do not see this going on behind closed doors.

I have to leave, the house is totally his. I told him that if he wanted me out he'd have to get a court date and force me out, that I would stand before a judge and tell him/her that I want counseling and to work things out. It wouldn't make a lick of difference, but I would feel better. He said that if that was how it had to happen, he'd make it happen (if it comes down to it). So if he forces me and the kids out, he no longer is worth it to me.

Then I guess he believes in abuse, though of course he only sees me being horrible.

Yes, LA, I guess I want him not to have that desire...but I'll have to settle for him to just not do the action.....

iam, you may just be right.....

but I am trying to right my wrong as far as I can as I got married to stay married.

BH blames all his actions on me, as if I were magically in control of what he does and does not do.

I wish!!

Ah, I didn't recognize her at first... now I remember the pregnant poster with the abusive pot-smoking H who used a long-time-ago EA as a license to berate and threaten and emotionally abuse her.


I TOTALLY AGREE.

Even before I recognized you, I asked if his behavior was abusive. You didn't reply. Maybe you aren't willing to face that it may be abuse.

You say he blames everything that happens to him on you, as if you magically control what he does. Does that sound like anything you could build a healthy M on? Does that sound like a healthy environment to raise kids?

You ask how can you do that (D) to your kids; how would you explain to them. How do you explain staying with an abusive pothead for a father?

Again, my suggestion is to contact a women's shelter. Even if you aren't ready to leave; just contact them for advice.

Are you using this to punish yourself? Do you have self-esteem issues: do you think you have a healthy love and compassion for yourself, or do you feel self-hatred, self-loathing, shame?


Do you mean as in, "Now look what you made me do!" "Don't make me hit you!" "I don't mean to do _______, it's just when you do __________ you make me do _______."

That's straight from the abuser's handbook.