I'm not so sure, although I'd never presume to speak for believer. How can you "be" w/ someone that you don't respect?

PART 1

I have thought and read about this this very topic a great deal since it hits close to home for me as an xBH. Some excellent sources to look at include (in addition to Dr. Harley's books of course) "The Five Love Languages" by Dr. Gary Chapman and "Private Lies" by Dr. Frank Pittman. They have all been quoted here many, many times. Undoubtedly, there are
others...

Most of the A's presented on MB.com are 'romantic affairs' (as opposed to chronic philandering or "accidental" one-nighters). This is because romantic affairs are the most destructive to marriages--at least those marriages that are truly worth saving and that the BS actually WANTS to save/recover.

The romantic infidel is convinced that he/she has "fallen out of love" or "lost their love" for their S and that the new OM/OW is the "love of their life." Assuming the WS was previously an upright and honorable person, the usual scenario is that the BS failed to meet some key EN's, the WS is a somewhat weak and needy person (otherwise they would have made their emotional status obvious to their S or just left to be alone), and the OP provides ("right place, right time) some desperately sought attention/affirmation. The wayward simply "falls in love". This is especially true for wayward women who will invariably justify everything as haven been done "for love." We all know the great extent to which all waywards will go to conceal and rationalize their A which they KNOW is wrong but "feels so right", including lying, manipulation, blame-shifting, etc.

Falling in love has NOTHING to do with real love--it is a biological feeling of attraction that is TEMPORARY. It is a misnomer not for "love" but for developing emotional/physical attraction. When anyone "falls in love", they are beset by euphoric good feelings about the object of their desires and become irrational. They see no wrong in their lover no matter what others may see or tell them about. Most people romanticize "falling in love" (it just can't be bad); few outsiders will try to interfere (knowing it is hopeless to intervene) and few involved will voluntarily walk away from the all-consuming euphoria. Psychologists call this state "limerance" and it typically lasts about 2 years before the brain chemistry inducing it gradually returns to its native balance (although it tends to last a bit longer if the R is/remains clandestine).

PART 2

Under "normal" circumstances (the unmarried, emotionally healthy state), we don't fall in love with people who aren't right for us or who don't meet and share certain standards, principles, and values. The WS however is NOT in a normal state of mind. He/She is usually needy, desperate, vulnerable and unable or unwilling to enforce the personal boundaries they would normally defend (and had defended when they met their S in the first place). Many of us can testify 1st-hand to this here--our WS's almost always get involved with people they would NEVER have chosen before (married, shady pasts, social/economic/academic/intellectual/physical "big steps-down", people they have to "sell-out" so much of themselves to be with). Often there are vast age differences, poor overlap of values, goals, personalities, & interests, and little in common outside of working in the same place or living in the same neighborhood. The WS often starts out knowing this person as a casual aquaintance (in whom they harbor no romantic intent) beforehand which is why so many of them will conceal or justify the R as "we are just friends" and later "we were friends first, that is why we are so good together."

The point is that these A's are flights into unreality--which is why so few "affair-ages" last a lifetime. When the "limerance" dissolves after 2-3 years (probably hastened by disclosure), the adulterous (often CO-ADULTEROUS) couple finds themselves with little solid ground to base a real R on and much guilt, hurt, and deceit remaining to plague them from its initial propagation. In effect, the R burns out on its own when there is nothing left to sacrifice to it to make it "feel special." The afairee(s) are then left with the same depression, neediness, and desperation that the A was an ill-conceived flight of escape from in the first place.

Affairs are inherently insane and are NOT an effective way to find a mate because the pre-conditions (emotional health, personal boundaries, discernment) necessary for that process are NOT present at the R's inception. You will never be able to convince a participant of that though--the feelings are too strong and must subside somehow for the WS to even begin to see clearly what they have done and how destructive it was to those around them and to themselves as well. Dr. Pittman states that if you are not sure if what you are doing is infidelity, "just ask your spouse!" The point is that that A's are NOT defined by sex (though they usually include that), but by deception, secrecy, and betrayal of trust. They are not held together by commitment and thus rarely lead to marriage.

Even when they do (as my xWW's affair did), that commitment is almost never mutually enthusiastic. When the limerance disappears, a hurculean effort is required by both partners to find compatibility--and that effort is rarely something that was anticipated before or is desired now. Less than 25% of affair-marriages make it 5 years and less than 10% make it 10. If you throw in complicating factors like step-children, vast age differences, few commonalities, among many others...I have no doubt that even those paltry success figures are optimistic.

Hi B,


I remember...it sounded like it was quite 'sudden' soon after your D. Did he ever say if D had anything to do with it? ...like it's been suggested....no longer have anything to sacrifice or finalize...or that 'unified' them.... or just that the fog lifted...somehow!

Did he say?


..and B,

Would you say that once respect has been lost, what it would take to earn it back would be next to....impossible?

Sdman,

My ExH just got M'd to OW a few months ago. They were living together almost 3 years. He "seems" extremely happy. Told me he was now better off than ever before. Yeah, that bruised the ego a bit.

There is a 17 year age difference between them, but so far, so good...I think they will both work REAL hard to prove everyone wrong and to make it last.

Just curious, is your ExW still M'd to OM, and if so, how long?

I think the loss of respect is the last straw, especially for a woman.

Everyone seems to think I will get back with my ex, but the respect thing is crucial for me. I can't be with a man that I don't respect.

My ex chose a different path than we'd planned. I suppose I could respect him again, but I have no desire.

Catgirl:

I didn't go into the details of my xWW/OM because I did not want to hijack someone else's thread. But since you asked...

My xWW separated from me in 7/06 and filed in 1/07 (our D became final in 6/07). I later found out many details of her A from the OM's (now) xW -- she has never admitted to anything out of hardheaded guilt and shame though she knows that I know the truth.

The OM is 17 years older, was married (3rd M!) and had/has 3 sons from 3 different marriages. The eldest son was abandoned emotionally and financially by the OM way back and they no longer speak. He is well on his way to the same path with the youngest (via 3rd wife) son. In addition, the OM is a MAJOR "step-down" on the socio-economic/intellectual scale and he has now cheated on all 3 previous marriages only to take up with each succeeding affir-partner--he is a social-climber via sexual conquest type.

My xWW and OM started an EA/PA back (unbeknowst to me until 2008) in late-'05/early-'06 and it continued throughout our separation time while she was supposedly "working on outr M" in counseling. Their A was the cause of his 3rd marriage's failure as his W found out long before I did and she and I were not in contact then. (Many sordid details of how it was carried out and witnessed by the 2 younger sons).

The OM's 3rd D was finalized in 12/07 (despite his secret failed efforts to go back to his then-wife when the R between him and my WW temporarily broke up). My xWW and he got M immediately after the D was final ~12/07.

Thus, they have been (legally) M a little under a year and have been "involved" in some way about 2 1/2 years -- though much of that was "under the radar" especially as far as I am concerned.

As far as I know, they are still together though I have heard via the grapevine that she is "unhappy." I have little contact with my xWW (nor do I desire any now that I know what a duplicitous and immoral tramp she has become). Most recently, she still clings to denial as to the nature and timeline of what she has done and claims contentment despite "asking for my forgiveness" and "being sorry for many things."

It no longer matters to me, but the writing is on the wall (more details than I can write here) -- that M will never see 5 years as it is built on mutual deceit, betrayal, and an utter lack of compatible values, interests, goals, and principles. The ONLY thing they have in common is that they work at the same company.

I also have a feeling that my STBXWH will do everything he can to make his affair last. Actually I don't think that he is happy, he is just hiding from the consequences of his actions.

I am also curious about the length of affairs. I can't understand what keeps this one together. STBXWH and MOW don't seem compatible at all and she has been lying to him also. She is working all the time, he lives in a dump that he calls an apartment, she is running out of $ and even had to take a loan to finance an old car. When he left he said that he wants to travel and enjoy himself, how are they going to do that with no money and her two children?

It looks like his vacations will be trips to the local petting zoo for the next five years or so.

I am also very curious to his reaction if her children would go near his beloved (and expensive) hifi equipment or his collection of mint condition comic books. If I could install a web cam I could get myself some popcorn and sit back and watch.