Your DD22 knows the OM's son?

Have you read Surviving an Affair yet. It's your handbook.

Call the Harleys today and get an appointment.

Yes, just learned that my DD23 knows the son. She is going to make contact today....after that I WILL have the number.

Ordered the book...s/b here today and I am calling today!!!

Still not clear on doing this WITHOUT WW's willingness??

You don't need her for the first call. It's just for you and they will help set you up with a plan. Many betrayed spouses here have consulted with the Harleys alone on their plan.

I am glad you are calling them.

I would let her know that you will pay the car payment and insurance up through October 30th, but after that she will be responsible for the payment. If she can't pay it, you will need to pick up the car. SHE SHOULD NOT BE DRIVING A CAR SHE CANNOT PAY FOR!

With freedom comes responsibility.

I kept thinking "Ouch, Mel, that's harsh... I mean, the wife *is* taking care of the grandmother and probably needs the car to do so."

But you know what?
You're RIGHT! If she weren't married to KickMe, she wouldn't have the freedom of time and transportation to care for the grandmother. The family would figure out some other solution - provide a different car for WW or find some other care for the grandmother.

The more I think about it, the more I think you are dead on with this idea, ML.

Hard cold reality is a real slap in the face, ain't it?

If she needs that car so bad, OM can make the payments and insure it.

You gotta be brutal, or the affair will feed until your wife takes everything you have and lives it up with OM.

OK Mel and TH and others.....

The fog is lifting for ME!! Damn I am a smart guy running a big businesss...why am I being so slow to grasp this????? That's me venting.

One more question I'm struggling with...??
If plan A is to leave WW with good impression of her BS being able to handle ALL of her EN's.....it still seems to me that "slapping her with reality" is counterproductive to plan A.

I'm almost there...come on guys...you know what I am asking here!!

kickme

Plan A is to show your WW that you are changing and learning how to meet her needs. Making you attractive as a husband in her eyes.

Plan A does not mean that you are to be a door mat. You can be in plan A and refuse to make your WW's affair financially feasible. If she wants to see the OM. Then let the OM provide here with a car and insurance.

You just simply and calmly state to your WW that if she wants to leave the house and have an affair that you will not support her.

That how could she respect any man that gives his WW money when she is having sex with the OM. You could not respect yourself for giving her money at this time.

Please note that Plan A does not stand for appeasement or [censored] kissing. Your job is to save your marriage, not to avoid making your wife angry at all costs. if you never make her mad that means you are facilitating the affair. A BIG NONO.

Notice that all the STICK is directed towards the AFFAIR and all the carrot is directed towards the MARRIAGE? You are starving the AFFAIR and feeding the marriage. Slapping her with reality is very productive because it harms the AFFAIR. That is your mission!

See, Plan A is all about supporting the MARRIAGE, not the affair. And because of that, you don't want to do things that ENABLE the affair, such as pay her bills. Giving her a dose of reality helps her see that there is no future in her affair.

I feel like an idiot!!!!

Thanks to all for clarifing all this.

I am going to be a MB success story one way or the other!!

My life is worth living and NO ONE can take that away from ME!

My DD told my WW again yesterday that "Dad and I have never had a better relationship".

I have a heart full of love and either she will realize that or maybe one day someone will not dispose of me like a bag of garbage.

Thanks for all your help!!

You're not an idiot.

These concepts are counter-intuitive. Most have to struggle to "get" them.

The plans are simple, but they are not easy.

Toss in a whopping heaping load of uber-stress so large it's a wonder you can walk or formulate a coherent sentence, and, well...it takes a bit of time for the ol' brain to grasp things.

Good to see the light bulb going off

Update...please advise...
Had my 12 yo all weekend. WW came by last night and I was finishing dinner and she did eat with us. After dinner we had a phone conversation. We talked again for over an hour...I was very careful to attempt to make LB deposits, etc.
She informed me again that she would not ever return and her A has nothing to do with her leaving....I accepted her slight critism of me and what I did to ruin our marriage.
She admits that all the kids are encouraged by "my" progress, but she is convinced that I cannot "maintain being nice and loving"....
I know this is going to be a long process...but I could not sleep last night because I feel that I am losing her for good. She thinks she is justified and shows no guilt or remorse. We had problems and she left...and has moved on with someone else who she is currently in love with.
I have followed most of the advise you guys gave me....what now?

Just stick with the plan. Every thing she said is par for the course. She has said nothing different from any other wayward.

Did you tell her you are not going to pay her bills anymore?

TIME

Your D day is not even a month past yet.

Your WW will wait at least six months to see your change has been permanent. That is why you do a plan A for six months.

You do not fish to see if it is having any effect on her.
You do not talk recovery. You do not act needy, plead, or beg the WW to comeback.

All you can do is to expose her parents and her siblings, OMW, and at where they work if they met there. Then do a plan A.

If say at three months you can no longer handel the pain of her affair. You go and do plan B. Even the Harley's say to do a plan A for only as long as you can stand knowing that the WW is going out to bang the OM.

It's 10/20/2008. Try doing a plan A for 30 days then revaulate where you are at. If you can't go past 11/20 then go NC that day.
If you can't go past 12/20 then go NC that day. Do not the holidays suck you into longer than you can go. Do not be a door mat.

And as melody said: cut off the money.

Thanks Mel,
As you know last week I delivered a letter to he OP supervisor. Nothing said to this point...we did talk about finances last night and I said to her that I will not be paying any bill that is in her name. She is giving me the checkbook today. I am not going to use that acct, but she does not know that yet. I expected her to get pissed, but she really had very little response about monies...

Waywards are notorious for running hot and cold. It is very difficult, but you must focus on yourself and how you are implementing Plan A and not on what she is doing.

I do think it is good that the kids have noticed your change, enough to mention it to her. I also think it's good that she's noticed you're "being nice and loving".

There are no guarantees that she will come back to you, or that she will leave. You absolutely cannot control what she does. This knowledge should NOT change your tactics, however. Clearly your children are encouraged by your changes, so you should continue learning and practicing these new behaviors simply because they enhance your relationship with them.

Furthermore, should things work out with your wife, or should you find yourself in other relationships in the future, these new skills that you are implementing will make your future relationship(s) much more successful and rewarding.

So keep up what you're doing - it sounds like you're doing it well - and try not to react to whatever thing your wife is doing at the moment. She will run hot and cold. These things take time, and lots of it.

K...got it...thanks for your support....
I admit that I am a fix it guy and I have been trying to "fish" and see if there are any signs. Last night I was fishing in the bath tub. Not only can you not catch fish there, but your gear gets sucked down the drain.
Is it REALLY normal for a WW to turn off the love switch that easily?
I know that I can do a good plan A for an extended period of time, really because I am having fun with my 12 yo and all the kids...it just sucks....

But isn't her car and car insurance in your name too? If she is going to use that car, then she needs to pay for it or return it to you. If she is going to leave the marriage, then she shouldn't have the benefits of marriage. You should be paying nothing for her.

Can you get it out of your name?

Sorry...left that part out...I asked her how long until she is able to afford her cell, the car and insurance. She was hesitant, and said not sure. I explained that HER next payment is due in the middle of Nov and that I would not be paying that or any bill in her name including ins.
She did not like it and said that I was the one changing the agreement that we had.....you know the one where I continue to pay everything so she can continue her A carefree.
I gently explained that I would not support her A.

Good for you kickme! Proud of you for manning up. It took me longer than you and it is still something I struggle with.