I have no advice to offer, but I can hear the pain and disappointment in your words and it breaks my heart. I hope you're not offended, just a few words of caution:



Please don't under estimate the power of perception - children see and hear a lot more than the spoken word. The dynamic bewteen you and your wife is more than just what comes out of her mouth. It's tone, it's body language, expression. I'm sure that anyone close to you can see the exhaustion on your face; I can hear it in your writing.

Would you want the marriage you have for your children? That's exactly what you are setting them up for - teaching them that it's ok to be unhappy, or to be treated badly, or to settle if that's what you feel you are doing. Look at what Squid learned from her childhood; just be conscious of what your children will learn from theirs.

Firenze using your yardstick ( and that is EVERY onlookers yardstick - I'm a little unfair to pick on you here) every child witnesses abuse / is taught bad lessons every moment of every day.

My children don't have a perfect life, but then again I can' think of any who do.

You would TRULY suggest that the lessons my kids are learning by example now are WORSE than a divorce because of MY dissatisfaction with my marriage would ?

You don't know me from Adam, so you can't know this statement is true: but I tell you if I thought my children would be 1% better off with us divorced than they are with us together I would effect the fastest divorce in history. But it is not so clear cut as that.

Squid offers them none of the treatment she offers me. She is a loving, indulgent mom to them. And she also knows better than to offer me any negative treatment in front of the kids.

Squid was abandoned in a cardboard box with her two sisters on her grandmothers doorstep when she was under two years old by her mother who left to "find herself" with a guy she walked out on her husband for.

Many of my wife's problems surely derive from not having a family unit when she was growing up. The lesson she learned primarily from that mess was " My happiness was not worth my parents sucking up a little to stay together".

I will not have my children learn that lesson too unless the alternative is too hurtful.

Hi CV

I have interviewed 5 MCs. Every one was crap; knew less about this marriage stuff than I do. Also Squid desperately needs a psychologist to look at her. A lifetime of big issues and stuffing is hurting her.

You, my friend, deserve more detail from me but it breaks my heart to be writing this cack to you after so many years. All that effort and hope for what ?

In summary my wife doesn't want to ( or cannot) effect the changes needed to be the wife I want. I need to work out what to do with that information.

I shouldn't have posted.

All blessings CV

HOLD UP there BP,,, Yes you should have posted,, you have been such a strong influence on me and probally many others and not because of your success but because you have a way of helping me really look inside of myself and address the elephant in the room. I have a tendencey of inoring the elephant because I don't want to stir up the waters, but because you question things you cause me to be real and look at the issues and for that I am thankful..

Second why is it ok for you to help so many (me, others here and the people in your church ministries) but not willing/wanting to allow us to maybe in some small way help you or at least listen and be a sounding board to you?

And as far as staying for the children, yes I think in a perfect world that is noble but if you are not happy and not satisfied you are cheating yourself and waiting until they are older to maybe save them some pain doesn't work either.

You are a great father and that won't change if you and squid seperate, I've told you before I want it all I want trust, I want passion and I want friendship and thankfully my hubby was finally willing to do great effort in giving me that, but, I can honestly say I would have given up if he had not come around and started treating like I needed to be treated.

You have been there for so many allow us to pay it forward...

BP I can always relate so well to your sitch. I do not know why but maybe it is because Squid and my H seem a lot alike, I dunno. He too had a lot of issues from his childhood that he has never “dealt with”.

I have thought a lot since my FWH A about things that I have “put up with” through out our whole M because I loved him with all my heart. Things like his temper, he goes into “rages” quite often (he has never physically hurt any of us but his rage is scary none the less), there are a few things along these lines that I have always just overlooked thinking that no one is perfect and he has many other good qualities. However since his A it is almost like I do not feel I should have to “put up with” ANYTHING, none of these things that I do not like and have told him about many times through out our M.

I feel that my H is not the H I want either. Yet I am not miserable, my kids are not miserable, he is truly remorseful for what he did. I feel almost like I am “stuck” because I probably would have always been okay with the things he did that I did not like if he had not had an A. But since he did have an A I feel I am justified to expect him to be a different person than he was before.

Is this asking too much? I dunno probably it is, but it is how I feel. And I do not know how to talk to him about it either. So I like you have been trying to decide what to do with this information.

Bob,

Of course you should have posted.

The more I think about your situation the more convinced I am that your fundamental problems isn't a marriage problem, it is a wife problem. Your wife needs to learn how to behave in a loving fashion. She need to deal with her issues. She needs to learn how to have an intimate relationship with you.

So if/while she is doing that what are you going to do? You play guitar right? Are you in an active band now? I used to do a little of that too and it was such a rush to be up there on stage jamming.

Personally I think it is better if you stay put until your kids are gone. Yes they will freak if you divorce even then, but they will be adults and they will have adult resources to deal with it.

Do your kids know that your W had an affair? Mine don't. My wife really only told a few of her close friends. She didn't want people to think less of me . . . How about that. I married a good woman.

Back at you CV . . . how are you? Still putting the H through the ringer

Have you found a job yet?

CN

Bob, you have put so much effort into your recovery; I;ve put very little. However, I find we are pretty much in the same place and it is down to the fact that our spouses "don't get it". I think we let our partners off too lightly; well, I know I did.

Ding ! Ding ! Ding !

I agree with that.

"too lightly". Hmm TT.

The main thing I didn't do is tell the kids. It would have been make or break for our M I think.

She may not have been arsed to change for ME but she certainly would for the kids.

BP-

Hey-

I believe it is a personal choice whether to let your children know about the affair... with that understand two of my three children do not know about my FWH affair... my oldest was old enough and figured it out... he also tried turning my fwh actions back at him- by saying things like- I don't have to listen to you about being honest- look what you did... it took much for me to mustard up the strength to defend my fwh (weeks after d-day)... but I did... I put it in terms of we all make mistakes and with his dad's he is trying to correct what he did- if he didn't we would not be together... that was the end of that... yes my sons image of his dad was shattered- but you know he learned that he's not perfect- what a hurtful choice he made- and the pain it caused me... hmmm what a life lesson for a teenage boy...

now my others were too young- they only know what they needed to know- there were problems and we were working hard to correct them.

It is my firm belief- that just the mere fact that children understand problems- even bad problems- exist in a marriage and are worked on to be resolved... we don't just toss the towel in... is where they learn a valuable lesson.

And yes... my kids did witness their dad being extremely selfish and belittling towards me during the time of his affair... yes that is wrong... I guess some would call it abusive... I don't(and I investigated child abuse for the state for years)... it was fallout from an unhealthy time in our marriage...that to me by NO MEAN would justify divorcing and causing even more turmoil and heartache to these innocent children.

I hear that you want what is best for your children- I would say most parents do... so continue to look for the good in your situation and teach your children some very valuable life lessons...and if sometime down the road you divorce- wow what a lesson you've taught them- don't just give up on a marriage- be strong- and work on it... I really wish my fwh's parents would have demonstrated that to my fwh- they hid all disagreements...leaving my fwh with a disillusioned image of marriage.

Keep up the good work... you are a strong man

Amartini

edited: Changed my mind

deleted, by popular demand...

Aph:

While I appreciate your support, I have to ask for a HUGE FAVOR--

Since I removed my original post, would you please kindly remove your reply to my post?

Thanks much! omm

OM

Only you can change your own post. Log on, click edit then delete whatever you want.

Your post box will stay but what you originally typed will be gone.

If you still need help then contact a moderator.

We do not know who you are. So why be afraid to tell us something?

I already edited MY OWN post.

Alp's post contains quotes from my original post (and I was asking Alp to ammend his/her post).

For the record, I just thought my original post was a little "harsh" for the newly recovered. I'm certainly not afraid to own my thoughts and feelings. -omm

Bob, I know you called for BSs and I'm obviously not in that category but we're old friends so I hope you don't mind my input.

I know Aphelion has me on ignore so I won't even address what he said but, Mr Wondering said it for me. Our five year d-day is on Oct 22. I know everyone on this board counts the second d-day as the REAL d-day but Rob doesn't. I know that for a fact.

Let's see, five years on. Certainly no one is coming up wanting, neither me nor Rob. I feel very, very sorry for people who feel they are settling. Neither of us are "settling". Yes, it will always be there - what I did will always be there but it doesn't define us, it doesn't define our marriage and it doesn't define me.

To be honest if I put Rob in the position that some people here put there BSs in - not learning anything, not stepping up to the plate, not being a better person all round, not enjoying every day - then I'd say don't bother with it. Divorce.

Hey Aph

Not sure I agree with your broad brush generalizations here either.
I've seen LOADS of spouses who have earned their "f" so profoundly that its now been replaced by a "M" for MAGNIFICENT. (Mrs W is really one of them from what I have seen. The right ingredients, the right baking, great cake is how I see them.)

I envy their spouses to be honest. Your and my missus' might be malfunctioning years after the warranty ran out but I'd say that far from universal. But I'd also bet we're contributors to our circumstances too. Just as Linkin park sing " I tried to hard, and got so far...but in the end,it doesn't even matter".


Jen I'm delighted for ya, honestly

Did I ever say I was sorry for cussin' you out BTW ? * blush *

Not to beat a dead horse, but google emotional or verbal abuse.
The first questionned asked is

Does your partner humiliate, criticize, or yell at you?

Unless your children are NOT around every time you and your wife interact, they are picking up on this. Do you know for certain your wife isn't belittling you to your kids when she isn't around?

I know I'm only one voice. But I'm product of witnessing such a marriage. In the 20 years I was at home, my mom said about 10 nice things to me about my Dad. Really, she just complained about him to me most of the time. You don't think that shaped my perception of how a wife should treat a husband?

I know my situation isn't necessarily the norm. My mom had a childhood similar to your wifes. And she never healed herself. I've spent nearly 3 years in therapy. I have little adult communication skills (I'm in my 30's), and I wasn't great marriage material. What I have learned about healthy marriages, I've learned from here, therapy and other books.

I unknowlingly married an addict. My only red flag was there wasn't a whole lot of non-sexual intimacy between us. I figured that was OK. Because my parents don't have intimacy in there marriage. I thought it was normal for parents to not talk to each other for months at a time.

I know your situation probably won't be as bad as mine. I just get frustrated when one marriage partner enable this behavior for the sake of the kids. I think it's my way of making peace with my dad choosing my mom over a healthy life.

Aph, it saddens me that you believe this myth when we are in the midst of so many examples that refute it. You can't see the recovery all around you. But that does not mean it doesn't exist. It does. Some that come to mind on this forum would be MrsW, lifechoice, Marshmallow, Susan, newbeginnings, and my husband. Look beyond your own situation, Aphelion.