CatPerson,

I rented KvK, I just didn't find it that compelling. It was hard for me to relate to it and I think the shock value of the mom abandoning kids for a career was lost because I'm seeing it for the first time in 2008.

I did think that the wife came off pretty badly in the movie but you really barely got to see her side.

Sorry, I was just joking. Should have said that.

Originally, I thought it would have helped gain insight into the wife's side, but your W doesn't fit that mold - or any other.

I do have a question and I am torn about what to do. xW still has not made a single contact with the children, they are not upset about it but I am thinking I should mention it to MIL. The problem is that we agreed she would work on the relationship with the children in her own way.

I think it WOULD be good to mention it.

You can keep it low key.

"Dear XW. You have not called. or spoken the children since you moved out. I worry the longer you go without talking to them, the more difficult it will be for you to maintain a relationship. I am not trying to tell you what to do, but will you please consider this?"

Or you can relay similar concern to MIL to pass on to her.
Very valid concern.


Sail on -

SS

6:

I will disagree with Stillseeking.

It's not your job to enforce your xW's relationship with her children.

So, she hasn't called her children for 5 days.

It's hard to imagine to those, like yourself, that someone can just walk away from family and just not be concerned anymore.

But it happens. Seemingly more often with MEN, but women do it too.

It makes the xW look even WORSE, but that is her choice. Read some of the threads around here regarding divorced parents and the custodial parent wonders WHY the other parent doesn't pay more attention. You can't control the other person.

You can go around and ask MIL, SIL, Friends, co-workers, the police or anybody who you think could talk to her, to ask them to "Call your children" And she can ignore them as well.

Yes, it harms the children. It harms them MORE to know that you have "told her to call you guys all the time, but she doesn't..."

The kids can call HER anytime, right? So, make sure they KNOW that that is an option.

You are getting to different opinions here. You have to make a choice. I think your best one is to just arrange for your children to call HER as they need to. Your not responsible for thier relationship with thier Mother, and your not responsible for her failures not to call. But you have encouraged your children to do the right thing.

LG

LG, SS:

W specifically said that she would call the children to work on the relationship. I have not asked them to call her, I'm worried that I will set them up for a disappointment. It has only been a week, I'll think on what I should do. If MIL comes over again maybe I'll just casually mention it.

6:

WW said she will call the children, but she hasn't.

Are you surprised?

She said that she will work on the marriage, but she wasn't.

You wern't surprised.

But your worried that by asking your children to call thier mother, that you will set them up for disappointment.

Why? She won't answer? She will yell at them? She will do what???

Ask your children to call thier mother, if they want. Here's the number. If they feel like talking to thier mother, why wouldn't you want to encourage that?

(Understand, that if your WW was toxic, and doing things that were NOT in the childrens best interests, (leaving was NOT, but it's a fact of your life NOW) then you SHOULD make sure they can't talk to her, but that is a different issue.)

However, if you construct a sitch where Mom doesn't call, and the children are afraid to call, because they may perceive it as going against your wishes, then the kids DO LOSE. So, you should make it clear that they are free to call thier mother at any time. Here's the number. They may call, they may not. She may answer, and be pleasant, or horrible. That's on her. Your kids might be disappointed, or not. But they should not have to feel that they CAN'T call.

I'm not beating you up. Its a tough place to be. Your WW is losing everything with these choices she is making. She can't see it right now, but your oldest son is displaying what the rest of her relationships with her children are going to evolve into. That's tragic on many levels.
LG

LG,


I can tell them that tonight at dinner. Basically that they can call xW if they want. They know her cell number. I don't think she changed it, if she did then I don't know her number either.

The kids can call their mother any time. If they want to, they should.

It looks to me like they feel she abandoned them a long time ago, and they don't feel like calling her. The oldest son is angry, and doesn't want ANYTHING to do with her. 6 asked him to give his mother another try, and the son refused point blank.

Before the D happened, 6 was trying to talk them all into giving her another chance. She may have a small window RIGHT NOW to have a relationship with them, but only if she works her rear end off to make it happen. That requires the contact come from her end, not theirs. I believe the kids are waiting to see if she cares, and waiting to see if 6 was right in asking them to give her another chance. He had to do a lot of damage control to get them to even consider it. I think 6 is afraid she will miss her chance. It looks like the window of opportunity is closing, and 6 knows it.


My worry is that she understands all of this, but will not take action.
SS

SS,

I think you are mostly correct, except possibly xW does not seem to really understand that her relationship with the children is in critical condition. Maybe she just doesn't want to admit it. You are right that I can feel the window closing. In a few more weeks, it will seem totally normal that they don't hear from her. Plus, Sam will have an influence on them. I only know she has not called because Rachael tells Sam and he tells me. I don't ask about it because that seems weird.

It would be great for their relationship if she actually did call and take them all to a movie or something.

Background - A lot has happened. I try to read between the lines and pick up extra information here and there so as to be better able to help.

We, on this end have to piece together a puzzle of what is going on, because we don't know you, and we only get what you tell us. Our own experiences shape our puzzle pieces, so we often have different points of view.

I only know she has not called because Rachael tells Sam and he tells me. I don't ask about it because that seems weird.

I know you have good relationships with your children. You have always taken a very active role in their lives.

I wonder if you are as good at talking about personal and private things as you are the weather, and sports?

Many things we do as parents can seem weird to us. I would encourage you to keep talking to them about their relationship with their mother. It will probably not be comfortable for either party, but many things in life will not be comfortable.
We know that if you ask them about contact, it's not because you want to spy on XW. It is so you can assess what is happening,and try to have it turn out the best way possible. You can explain it to them, along with your other concerns. It won't hurt them, and may help a great deal.

I believe your XW needs help. I believe you do, and your children do. I believe I do also, and that all of us need help in one way or another. We are good at some things, not so good at others. My personal feeling is that talking with your children about these things will be good for you too.

Perhaps it happens in therapy, but you can seek their feelings more often than that.

We have 8 children, including twin girls 15. It has been quite an education for me.

SS

Wow 8 is alot of children. I can talk about difficult things with them usually it is easier because I am helping them think about something or solve a problem. I'm having trouble here because I think I'm just rubbing salt in the wound. I will bring it up with the therapist on wednesday. We are there as a group and can talk about it.

I must admit that I do have an especially tight relationship with Sam and I also make an effort to treat him like a man and not a child. He seems like a child to me, but I have to remind myself that I was barely older than he is now when he was born. So I am more frank with him and less concerned with incidental hurts.

S/s:

I have no doubt that the window may close for Mrs. 6.

But we are talking about teenagers here. They can make choices as well.

I don't really think that 6's younger children have thought about it all that much, nor do I think that they are old enough to really understand that choice at this age.

Waiting for the children to make the choice is waiting for a bus that isn't coming. IT's something to do, but pointless.

Should Mrs 6 make the contacts? Yes. But thinking that the children are not going to be receptive tommorrow or next week is simply giving them a little to much credit at this age.

The oldest? He can comprehend, and is probably making some of his choices from a place of anger. Doen't mean that later, he won't be willing to extend an olive branch.

LG

BTW: I had a dad who walked out when I was 13. I maybe saw him for a total of a hour in the next 10 years. Was it his responsibility to call us kids? Yes. But do I understand that I COULD have reached out as well? Mom ceratinly didn't encourage it at the time, but I certainly have some regrets that I didn't do something.

I'm having trouble here because I think I'm just rubbing salt in the wound.

It a way, it is.

Here is what I (think) I see.

They don't understand why you wanted them to give their mother another chance. OR why YOU were giving her another chance.

It's been explained to them, and they understand intellectually, but deep down, they don't.

You want to help them understand, but are not sure how to bring that about.

You also want your XW to understand how short her time is, but at this point, you are reasonably sure she does not.

You don't know how to get that across to her, and are not sure if you ought to try it, given what has already happened.

End of Speculation -

I agree that you ought to being it up in therapy, and perhaps get some help with it. However, I also believe that if you have a firm grasp of what needs to be done, your mind will come up with additional ways to bring about what is needed. I think you work that way quite often.


The twins came last, and were a surprise. Many of my parenting skills have come because of the twins. (SS smiles)


I think you have done well, considering that this is probably the most difficult thing you have ever gone through. I believe you understand that I am not trying to tell you what to do, but hoping to give you more to think about. Attempting to help you to look at things from more than one side, as it were.

Do you read much poetry these days?

SS

LG, I think we both want to see the same result.......... Our experiences shape the way we write it down.

Thanks for the insight from your own experience, I think it's valuable, especially for Sam. I think 6 can use that to help the situation.

One of the reasons I stay on this board, is that I continue to learn things that help me with my personal relationships.

SS

SS, LG:

I had a short talk with the kids where we talked about the continued lack of contact from xW. I let them know that if they wanted to talk to her they could call her. They said they already knew that would be ok but they don't want to talk to her right now.

So I got an email from xW tonight it is quite long and full of complete babbling. But the basics are that she is going to spend the winter in Tuscany because she never got to see Europe as a young person. She says once she has done that it will put her in a better place to build a relationship with the children and with me. She ended with the comment "Gabe, I have always loved you and I know you love me. When I get back we can build a new life together as a family."

She asked me not to tell her mom since she is learning to be an adult and handle things herself.

I'm thinking that I should just let this go but I am also somewhat concerned that she is mentally ill or delusional. It just seems like something a 10 year old would think could happen.

This makes no sense at all. I can see why you are worried. I could comment, but you already know the things I would say. I worry about her too.

She ended with the comment "Gabe, I have always loved you and I know you love me. When I get back we can build a new life together as a family."

You can ignore this, or you can tell her that you have no intention of building a life with her - or whatever the truth is. Depends on what you think she needs the most. Reality might help, but........... I worry that it will not.

She asked me not to tell her mom since she is learning to be an adult and handle things herself.

I think we know what her mom will think, and say. She must know also.

I'm thinking that I should just let this go but I am also somewhat concerned that she is mentally ill or delusional. It just seems like something a 10 year old would think could happen.

I believe she would do well to seek help, but she is an adult. You can leave it alone, or force it if you think she is in danger. You would know better than we would.


I hesitate to link to this, because of the tone of the content, but there are elements in this post that address what she is doing. It does kind of put things into perspective. I don't know if it would help her, even if she was to read it.

I am not trying to be disrespectful to her. I with things were different.

Finding yourself

Not sure if attempting direct intervention would accomplish anything, unless there are other things you know that would make a difference. People can travel if they want to - I mean, what would anyone outside of this situation have to say about it?

SS

6YL, IMO I think you should be really Plan-B'ing your XW at this moment. I'm pretty sure that there's more going on than she's letting on (like maybe a holiday trip with an existing or new OM financed by the 100K that she's just got her hands on), but no matter - she's going to be a disruptive influence in your life and your children's lives until she gets her act sorted out. YOU DON'T NEED THIS DRAMA in your life at the moment.

I suggest responding with a brief message letting her know that any future contact will have to come through her MIL, then block her e-mail, and refuse to answer her calls.

I would send a statement that... you are dulusional if you think this absense from your children combined with your marriage-long absence in their lives will do anything but cement their disgust with you as a parent. Also I have no intention to re-marry or have a relationship with someone that is so selfish to take a trip to europe for an extended time rather than repair their shattered relationship with their kids.