I asked for opinions of my post, However I still haven't seen one. I would like some feedback on my post in regard to the lesser of two evils. I see people are talking about the things or more like the people that who Obama associates with.

If you guys remember Bush said he was against gay marriages yet in the last eight years how many states have made it legal to have same sex marriages.

As far as not agreeing with Obama's views on how to fix the economy he has at least been consistent with his plans. How many times has McCain been ok with a plan only to come back and change it because he saw a dip in his numbers? I don't know about anybody else but even if Obama does raise taxes I still will feel better with him in the office simply because he hasn't had any dirty dealings under the table regarding lining his pockets. Just that alone shows the man only cares about getting his comeuppance.

I also think another good reason to have a second guess regarding McCain and wither or not his is presidential material. The man has rage issues. He was on national tv debating his competition and the man looked like he was about to blow his top. How many of you know anyone that can make a rational decision when you let your emotions get the better of you I mean what if the man doesn't agree with the position which one of the world leaders is coming from and loses his cool and gets the U.S. thrown into another unnecessary war?

I know with each candidate you have pluses and minuses yet like with your relationship"s you have to look at them and decide if the pluses outweigh the minuses. I don't know about anyone else but to me with McCain and his shady past and ethics and Palin who doesn't have control of her own family( I don't know if any of you saw the picture where her daughter was flipping off the little boy. If that was one of Obama's daughters it would be on every channel. Then the fact that she and her husband wants to succeed Alaska from the union. On top of the fact that she uses the laws to serve her own purposes( Her ex- brother in law.) All these issues speak volumes. That is just my opinion I maybe wrong but I would love to hear someone perception of my post. Also if you need me to add links to support what I am saying I will be happy to do so.

It's very similar for me too. No matter what "Liberal" labels some folks here want to attach to me (or to anyone else supporting Obama), that "us against them" thinking is too simplistic.

As I said here time and again, I would have considered McCain (and did), until he went so far to the right in the last couple of months, and flipped his position on so many issues.

AGG

BTW, that story is false .

AGG

Thank you for clearing the whole finger incident AGG. I appreciate that. I was hoping that is wasn't true. I know children can be mischievous but if her daughter had done something like that knowing how closely they are being watched right now, it would have been very distributing. I am sure that was the whole reason behind the doctored pic in the first place. Someone emailed me the picture now I can email them back and let them know it is untrue and not to pass it along anymore.

DIG,

I posted ealier in this thread my exact stance on the issues that divide the two parties. I don't realy fit in either one by definition. That being said, I do not see this choice as one of the lesser of two evils, but rather the best choice to correct the damage done to our country over the last 8 years under George Bush. As much as John McCain would like to pretend he's not him, his voting record supports that HE DID support his policies 90% of the time. So any reasonable person could expect our country to receive much of the same results that the Bush administation has garnered.

1. In 2000, when George Bush took office, the national debt was $5 trillion. In just 8 years, the Bush administration double that debt to $10 trillion. An enomous amount and thanks to GWB my great grandchildren will likely still be paying for it.

2. The unjust Iraq war has cost our country $700 billion that we had to borrow from foreign countries, some of which are our enemies, to fight. To date, 4,000 American men and women have lost there lives fighting Bush's war. Even more sobering, is that it is estimated that over 1 million Iraqis have lost their lives in the past 5 years. I say estimated because as the pentagon said "We don't do body counts." Even typing that quote makes me want to puke. So much for valuing HUMAN life. If John McCain had his way, we would already be fighting another war in Iran as he so elequently put it with Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran. NO ONE, THAT WOULD MAKE LIGHT OF DROPPING BOMBS ON HUMAN BEINGS, SHOULD EVER EVER EVER BE PRESIDENT OF OUR GREAT COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!

3. McCains Health Care policy - Almost all major business organizations, including the United States Chamber of Commerce, have decried McCain's Health Care plans that would destroy the employer based health care system. Likely adding 20 million new uninsured citizens to the 45 million we already have which would drive up insurance premiums and health care costs even further. It's an abismal plan and it's no wonder the McCain camp doesn't want to talk about it.

That's just for starters. What I would implore upon you DIG, is that you not buy into the conservative McCain supporting conspiracy theorists around here. They will try to distract you with talk of terrorism, Bill Ayers, ACORN, Reverend Wright and other fodder. Do not listen to them! Focus on the issues and use Google to find comparisons of each candidates planned policies. Then, make the best choice for our country.

Want2Stay

p.s. Sorry for shouting at you.

DIG - that sort of "dirty trick" has been standard fare for Democrat supporters. Put out the lie, get people riled up over the 'injustice' of it, then have it exposed....and the damage is already done and can't be retracted.

But what do you think about the real "caught on tape" utterances of Michelle Obama ("I've never been proud of America until now, because Barack is running for President"),

of Barack Obama (talking to fellow elitists in CA, "THOSE people who only out of their desperation cling to their guns and their religion) [it is CERTAIN that Barack does NOT, and never would, "cling" to his "religion" because he could not and BE what he claims to be...a Christian],

of Bush and McCain didn't do anything to try to head off the impending disaster at FM and FM (they BOTH tried to get oversight legislation passed years ago and had the "cookie jar" protected by the Democrats who instigated the program under Bill Clinton),

???

How come Barack Obama has done NOTHING to "fix" the Chicago Schools problem of overpaid teachers teaching for less than a full school day and less than a full school year? Could it be because he puts the Chicago Teachers Union support and donations AHEAD of the people? What HAS Obama done FOR the people?

How come Barack Obama thinks that THE WAY to "help the people" is to BLOCK any attempt at reducing the wanton "on demand" slaughter of babies and TO support the "Reproductive Freedom Act" that would ELIMINATE ANY chance at reducing any abortion killing of millions of innocent "civilians."?

How come Barack Obama supported a man who wants to bring Islamic Law as the governing law to Kenya?

How come Barack Obama, who has such concern for "the people" can't sent ONE THIN DIME to his brother and grandmother in Kenya, but he CAN spend thousands in political support for Odinga to bring Islamic law to Kenya?

How come Barack Obama is SO DUMB that he can sit a pew for 20 YEARS and expect us to believe he JUST NOW realized what a racist and hater his "spiritual advisor" Rev. Wright IS?

How come Barack Obama embraces "Black Liberation Theology" that is "Marxist/Socialist" in fact?

How come Barack Obams embraces the idea that "Blacks" need to be faithful to AFRICA and not the United States? (or at least he did until it began to finally hit the NEWS and he realized how "inconvenient" the TRUTH about his beliefs would be to the average voter to dumb to "look up the facts for themselves" would be?

How come Barack Obama, thinks that it's "okay" to associate with KNOWN unrepentant radical terrorists masquerading as "teachers" who are in reality ANTI-America and always have been?

How come Barack Obama thinks that Louis Farrahkan is a "great American" as Louis spews his hatred and racism for YEARS, and we are NOT supposed to "question the JUDGMENT of 'intelligent' Barack Obama?

How come Barack Obama thinks the "answer" to the economic mess is to STEAL from people who have EARNED their money and GIVE it to those not willing to work for it?

How come Barack Obama thinks it's "okay" for the government to decide who is worthy of being helped, but it's NOT worthy faith-based organizations to do that?

How come Barack Obama thinks that the government can run ANY program better than the private sector as in "Don't invest your money in your own programs, give it to the government and you can earn, maybe 1.5%, but if you DIE, then the government gets to KEEP all of your money and NONE of it can go to your wife, children, church, or anyone?

How come Barack Obama thinks the USA would be "better off" as a country to be under the rules and laws of the United Nations and let the UN run things like the "Oil for Food Program," the "Stop the genocide in Darfur" program, the "please Mr. anti-USA, anti-freedom countries," "won't you just pretty please with sugar-on-top (free flow of money and trade) just stop doing those bad things you are doing?"

How come Barack Obama thinks that he can vote "Present" dozens and dozens of times in order to NOT have to "stand up and be accountable for HIS vote" on anything "controversial" or that might "cost him" votes? SPINELESS and OPPORTUNISTIC" is what it says.

How come Barack Obama thinks the activities of ACORN "justify" all their illegal and unethical actions and that it's "NOT RIGHT" to expect people to LEGALLY prove that they have a right to cast a vote?

How come Barack Obama thinks the activities of ACORN are "good enough" for him to be their legal representative, to have the US Taxpayers fund some 40+ percent of ACORN's budget, to want to give ACORN HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars as "pork for services rendered to him" in the FIRST Democratic attempt at a "financial rescue package (which John McCain opposed)?


"I know children can be mischievous but if her daughter had done something like that knowing how closely they are being watched right now, it would have been very distributing."

And I know politicians can be mischievous but if a candidate for president had done something like that knowing how closely they are being watched right now, it would have been very distributing.

NOT "disturbing" to most supporters of Obama. They ONLY care about getting him elected, not about what he would bring to the office as "his idea of change." BIG government, TAX and SPEND your money as HE sees fit, Socialism instead of Capitalism as the way to "make everyone equal because it's 'only fair' to take from those who have more than you and give it to anyone Obama thinks should get it...(sort of like the Democrat inspired and protected Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac 'giveaway regardless of the borrowers ability to repay the loans...and oh by the way, Barack will 'make sure' that those nasty Banks WILL repay the government rescue plan loans). This man is an Econominc nightmare just waiting to make us as successful as Africa has been.

ForeverHers while you give a good argument you forgot to mention the fact that while Obama has been a patron if Rev Wright his rallies have never been hate-filled like McCain's.

Michelle Obama said that she has never been prouder of America than she is now, that Barack is running for President. Not that she has never been proud of America. I am sure she feels that way because if not for affrimative action blacks would not be anywhere near getting so close to being in the white house. Try as we might to think it is more equal for all people of color it is not. The proof is here http://outfoxingkarlrove.wordpress....hispalin-supporters-take-a-listen-video/

And the fact that people who have up posters and signs to show their support for Obama are getting hate mail. So the fact that her black husband as made it this far in a country that hides it's racial views behind closed doors is a great achievement and it is indeed something for her to be proud of.

As far as Obama saying in hard economic times people cling to their guns and their religion, it means he is in touch with people because most people do just that when times get hard, by saying lord please help us through these trying times. I don't know about anyone else but the time that I feel the closet to the lord is in time of crisis. I don't own a gun and I don't approve of them but I know when the economy gets hard more people struggle and when the get desperate crime rate raise at astrological rates. So I can understand why more people would feel the need to carry arms.

You say Obama has done nothing to fix Chicago area schools. With Bush in the office more than just Chicago area schools have suffered. They have all suffered. How many programs that would benefit the children have been cut. Yet McCain supports him 90% if the time. They even wanted to try and cut out the art programs. I said this before as well. Bush is very adamant about gays yet how many states have approved gay marriages under his term. I am saying that to say this just because he may or may not agree with a persons' lifestyle choices doesn't mean that those things will or won't change once either of them is in office.

As far as people whom Barack associates with, I don't know about you but I have lots of friends including my husband whom I love dearly but just because I love them that doesn't make me agree with all of their views. No one person agrees completely with another views all the time. Just because some of their view differ from mine should I cut all ties with them? If that is the case I would be a lonely soul.


How come Barack Obama supported a man who wants to bring Islamic Law as the governing law to Kenya? When you say support what exactly did he do to show he supported this man? Also what exactly was he supporting this man on?

As far as his economic policies I have always heard it is better to give than receive. We all have to pay taxes, some can afford to pay more than others. It would hurt them a lot less in the pockets to pay more taxes than the average American. Warren Buffet is one of the richest men in the US yet he is behind Obama. Taking extra taxes from the 5% of people who go out and buy $750.00 shoes is not going to hurt them. I think buying shoes that cost that much money and they can't get you where you have to go any faster than my $40.00 shoes is just wasteful. That is why so many countries hate Americans. We have so much and they have so little yet we are not satisfied with what we have and because the have so little they would be happy with just a fraction of what most Americans have.

George Bush was the Owner of the Rangers before he became president and he ran their oganization into the ground. Yet we still voted him in office and look at what has become of our economic state. Yet McCain supports him 90% of the time. That is a scary thought indeed. You say that Obama is an economic nightmare waiting to happen, but if McCain is agreeing with Bush so often how will his plans for the economy be any better?

O/T: DIG, I did a shout out to you on GENERAL QUESTIONS. Wanted you to know that I was NOT ignoring you.

do you really understand what this means beyond the slogans???

NOTHING.

The vast majority of votes are procedural...BUT, according to every independent review of the votes by politicians, McCain is seen as a moderate (that's why many in the republican party didn't want him).

Obama has voted with Nancy Pelosi 97% of the time.

Procedural votes.

If, as I am starting to believe, he has bought Obama, he might as well be President.

As far a having the power to destroy or fix a nation's economy, I suppose it depends on what results HE wants and what benefits HIM.

In regard to the interview about the Holocaust, I'm sure that, as a 14yo boy, he was glad that his life was being spared. However, his coldness as an adult in regard to the events of that time is very telling. Every other account of the events that happened during the holocaust, as told by people who were children when they experienced those events, revealed the trauma, sadness, and grief suffered over them. He is the only person I've heard of, who basically just shrugs as if it was no big deal.

In reading this, I think about the background checks that police and security people must go through. Depending on the job they give your life a thorough colonoscopy.
I think it would greatly benefit this country if candidates were investigated by a non-partisan team and the findings after verification was made available to the public. In addition, along with this information, the candidates should submit position documents on a host of things from taxes, social issues and foreign policy.
Doing away with all this bullchit surrounding election time, it would allow people to make educated decisions about their leaders. Debates should be strictly monitored to make sure the candidate is in fact answering the question put before them.

This entire process becomes nothing more than a popularity contest...playing to the demographics of the party at hand. I think there should be at a minimum, 5 major parties from which people can select...and that the campaigns and elections should be run in such a fashion that the newly elected leader of the most powerful country on earth should be beholden to no one but the American people.

What on earth ever happened to We The People?

And Republican supporters have never done such a thing?

AGG

Again, you know not what you speak of when you expect someone to react or grieve in a way that you approve. A very common reaction to trauma, especially like the one that would be endured by a Jewish boy in Hungary during the Holocaust, would be total lack of emotion or desire to talk or think about it. Read up on the subject a little more.

AGG

DIG, with all due respect, you have "blinders" on. You think that there hasn't been EXTREME hate-filled speech by Obama supporters? You think this is all "one-sided?" You think that merely because some Barack supporters INVENTED the "kill him" stuff they attributed to McCain/Palin supports, which WAS and IS refuted by the Secret Service personnel who WERE AT those rallies, it is "true?"

You think that the Barack supporters, and the media that is in the "Democrat's pocket," who are VISCOUSLY attacking "Joe the Plumber," a CITIZEN of this country, PERSONALLY and NOT addressing at all "Joe's point" about the Obama Tax Plan and OBAMA'S "reasoning" that he gave to Joe that "income redistribution" is Obama's answer to economics, is NOT "hate-filled" and meant to OBSCURE and OBFUSCATE on the ISSUE of tax policy?



DIG, you can "be sure of" anything you want to "be sure of," but that does not make it true. Michelle Obama's statement is on TAPE and VERY clear. Her attempts at "damage control" notwithstanding, it is CLEAR that she was echoing her feelings, many of which were very likely honed and reinforced by 20 years of "hate America" and "hate Whitey" preached and shouted by her "Black Liberation Theology" pastor. SHE and Barack CHOSE to embrace his philosophy because it was CLEARLY stated in the Church's position and statement of faith that they CHOSE to accept when they became MEMBERS of the church. They were NOT mere casual attenders, they were willing members. And it "came out" loud and clear in what she DID say, not what she tried to "parse away" to blunt the damage to her husband's campaign.

In point of FACT, Barack did NOT choose to resign from Trinity Church because of differences with what Wright said, not because of differences with what Wright and the church STAND FOR in Black Liberation Theology, but because Wright "offended" Obama by saying that Barack was only moving away from those positions because Barack was a Politician. In other words, Barack finally tried to "distance" himself from Wright and the PHILOSOPHY ingrained in his and Michelle's CHOSEN church BECAUSE it was "politcally inconvenient," NOT because they rejected the philosophy.



Have you NOT seen all the "hate speech" spewing forth in all forms, from such speech disguised as "humor" on Letterman and Leno, to T-shirts calling Sarah Palin a C***, to all sorts of speech designed to make McCain appear too "old and unfeeling" toward the poor and the middle class?

You have "one-sided" blinders on, DIG.



Nice attempt as "Spin," DIG. Barack is an elitist who speaks one thing to one group of supporters and another thing to other groups of supporters. HE made that statement to California elitists and it had NOTHING to do with being "in touch with people." It was "political expediency" and nothing more. It was "say whatever the given audience needs to hear in order to get them to support me, and the truth be damned."



I got it, DIG. You don't CARE what BARACK's actions and positions are, you "justify" HIS ineptness, uncaring, calculated POLITICAL positions as "reason enough" to IGNORE what Barack, NOT George Bush, "brings to the table."

Why don't you simply go back earlier in this thread and READ what Barack and education "reform" really IS.



Ya, you must be right on this one. We should NEVER "cut our ties" with someone who believes differently than we do. We should NEVER divorce a spouse who thinks that it is their right to trash marriage and do whatever they want to do simply because there IS no "right and wrong."

You perform an apologist role for Barack when it is his JUDGMENT that is the real issue. He CAN believe whatever he wants to believe, and HE DOES believe the tenets of "Black Liberation Theology," the hate-filled rhetoric of Dr. James Cone (a professor at Columbia University's Union Theological Seminary), the racist and hate-mongering speech of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. If you don't think it's a bit of a "stretch" to think that Barack and Michelle sat in those pews by CHOICE, hearing that garbage week in and week out for 20 years WITHOUT accepting it for themselves, then you have no right to try to "paint" John McCain as "just another Bush" simply because he supported legislation for whatever reasons HE had for giving that support.



Got it. YOU support the notion of Income Redistribution. Take from anyone who can "afford it," by whatever measure of "affordability" you decide (or Barack decides) and give it to anyone you think is "less fortunate" as a welfare redistribution.

You DO NOT support the idea of MERIT, or of being "rewarded" because of hard work. You support a "means" test whereby the LESS you do to help yourself, the MORE you can get your hands on something that someone else has earned, simply because you LIKE CLASS ENVY and can "force" others to pay for things and to pay others regardless of any MERIT.

Sounds very much like the current issue that Black friends of mine have told me disgusts them: Having more babies simply to get a bigger welfare check.




DIG, if you think for one minute I am in favor of the ridiculous runaway spending orgy that BOTH "sides of the aisle" have supported in Congress (you know, that place with the highest approval rating in history), then you DON'T know a thing about Conservatives and Conservativism.

But regardless, if you also think that Barack Obama's "economic plan" of INCREASED taxes and additional spending of some TRILLION dollars on top of what is currently being spent is "GOOD, SOUND ECONOMICS JUDGMENT," then there is no hope for a rational discourse on "Issue positions" of the candidates.

IF you DON'T think that a FREEZE on new spending and NO NEW TAXES doesn't make sense, then just WHERE do you think it "makes sense" to spend more money than what your income will support?

Oh ya, rob from those who "have," and give it to those who "have not." Champion irresponsiblity in spending and it won't make any difference how much money is "coming in."

And do you REALLY think that corporations and individuals who HAVE "enough money already" are going to do NOTHING to avoid whatever new taxes Barack and Nancy and Harry come up with?

WHO, exactly, do you think actually PAYS the taxes? Have you ever looked at the "price" of anything you buy and the "taxes" that are added to your purchase of any item you buy?

WHY on earth would ANY "small business" allow their business to "grow into MORE taxation" (Barack's 'Magic Number' of $250,000) when all they have to do is not hire, or fire, employees and "hold the line" under Barack's PUNITIVE attempt to "fix things" on the backs of "small business?"

I guess that all depends on the differences.

I would sooner call an adulterer friend than I would anyone that supports the slaughter of unborn children. This is especially true for people of God.

There are some here that have no belief in God and while I abhor their choice, I can understand it better than those that PROFESS to believe in God yet still support the slaughter of His children.


Good people can disagree...but, IMHO, not on certain issues.

Perhaps you need to watch the ACTUAL videos. The FIRST one shows her true feelings...The SECOND was DAMAGE CONTROL.

Her OWN words.

Here she is attacking Hillary for being the VICTIM of adultery.



arrogant little witch she is.

I did not say that I expect anyone to grieve in the way "I approve".

Even someone who is unable to voice any emotion or grief should be able to say, "That was a terrible, awful time." Soros' reaction was more along..."well, so what? Why should I care?" That doesn't mean that he doesn't feel grief, but his reaction is, IMO, rather callous.

Actually, I know more than I want to know about grief. Grief does have to be processed by the person feeling it.

There are people who are so callous as to tell a mother who is freshly grieving her child to "Get over it." I'm wondering if these aren't the same kind of people who block their own emotions, although I'm sure that some of these people who think others ought to "get over it", in regard to the loss of a loved one, will probably wail and moan for years over something as important as HER broken fingernail. I have met at least one person who is like that. :RollieEyes: She's not a person I want as a friend.

I must agree wholeheartedly with AGG here. LC, I have spoken to many holocaust survivors, in person, as has my daughter. There is no one way in which they deal with the trauma that was visited upon them. Everyone's experience and reaction is unique.

Well, I see your point, but she came about it a bit more obliquely than that, saying something about "running your house". Certainly everyone knew what she was talking about.

I believe that Michelle Obama took exception to the Clintons' swipes at Obama on the campaign trail. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if she took it all more personally than Obama himself. Wives are like that, speaking as one. I wondered if Michelle's counsel was part of the reason that Obama didn't ask Hillary to be his running mate. On the other hand, maybe Barack didn't want Bill lurking around the White House.