Welcome to the D-Line Amigo! I'll get the bourban.

You fought well. Your kids will know that forever.


A couple more for Dummo:

The consequences of divorce on children are far-reaching. One detailed study found that, "five years after the divorce, more than a third of the children were experiencing moderate or severe depression. At ten years a significant number of the now-grown young men and women appeared to be troubled, drifting, and underachieving. At the fifteen-year mark, many of the thirtyish adults were struggling to establish secure love relationships of their own ... Cruelly, the experience of parental divorce damaged many young adults' ability to forge strong attachments of their own, in both their work and their family lives" Barbara Dafoe Whitehead, The Divorce Culture,

A 25-year landmark study of 131 children of divorce demonstrated some alarming facts. "Adolescence begins early in divorced homes and, compared with that of the youngsters raised in intact families, is more likely to include more early sexual experiences for girls and higher alcohol and drug use for girls and boys"
The study also found that "one in four of the children in this study started using drugs and alcohol before their fourteenth birthdays" (p. 188). Cohabitation rates were high among the group. Several of the single young women felt that simply moving in with a man "was safer than marriage because escape was easier if they needed to get out or if the man left" (p. 289). Their reasons boiled down to a distrust of men that resulted when their parents divorced. (Judith Wallerstein, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, 2000, p. 299).




This is exactly what my Bosses kids are going through. His was also a divorce via adultery.

SD,

Although it's not a ride you chose to take, Welcome Aboard.

Oh, and the response is already well written out for you above, I agree.

For all of the good it will do.

Remember,,,,,SCQ likes things the way she likes them. (insert appropriate clothing, sippy cup stories here).

So her reply to your sending her the FACTS will be that those are not SPECIFC to HER children. HER children are JUST FINE with HER. Remember, SHE sees them having NO issues.

She will insist on specific examples of why each child needs counseling.

It's not right, it's not fair, but you know that's the way she will respond.

I'd send it anyway. If nothing else, it provides documentation of the work you have done to try to help your kids. May come in handy someday.

Now that you are here on the D-Line, how about everyone heads to the Club Car for a Welcome Aboard Party?!!!! I'll buy the first round.

Yep she probably will so preface it with, if you're going to the Congo you should get inoculated for Malaria.

He is divorced now. He can educate SCQ all he wants to now.

Look out yoga girls!

Welcome, Guy Smiley.

I think.

Or....

I'm sorry, sdguy.

Still don't know which one is appropriate.

At least you are in good company, right?


Fox

ETA: Even though it is expected, it kind of sneaks up on you when it is final, doesn't it?

Absolutely! I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Just giving a 'heads up' to the expected reply.


Is SD going to be learning some new positions? Ooops,,,sorry BC, that question probably should have been yours!

I'm going to include a handful of those as well.

So far, it feels anticlimactic, but the news is only about 30 minutes old. I have an appointment scheduled with my IC this afternoon, so it's good timing.


Yeah, that's universal from people. Congratulations and I'm sorry.

Yep, good company here on the D-Train. You guys are the best.

That's what I would find difficulty in..... not giving the SCQ EXACTLY what she asked for.

As it stands with WxH, he doesn't ask about DDs and I've learned that it does no good to try to educate him when he doesn't want it.

However.

If he ever asked.........

He'd get the answer right in the kisser with both barrels.


Fox

Where are the kids tonight? When will they find out?



Oh yeah, I agree. That's two emails now where she is asking for it. Time to deliver.

They're with the SCQ tonight, but they won't find out anything from her. I'll have to think about how to tell them.

As far as telling the SCQ, I think it needs to be delicate. She's passive-agressive, and she knows she can't win any kind of debate with me, but she doesn't have to.

I just want her to agree to the counseling. She's close right now. If I go nuclear, she will get defensive, dig in, and figure out how to blame me. If I appeal to her concern for the children, I think I can get her to agree.

It's dicey, but I think I will give it a shot.

She may not know yet. I have known people who found out their D was final weeks after the fact.

I think Greycloud was one.

Gosh Guy Smiley, I'm sorry to hear this news. I suppose you knew it was coming, but who ever wants to hear this type of news...

As for educating SCQ, well, it could be a complete and utter waste of valuable keyboard strokes. I would see if you can get her to agree. If not, THEN I'd send those lovely tid bits about divorce to her.

Whenever this talk about divorce comes around, it makes me wanna shield DS. Instead, I usually just have an open discussion with him, letting him lead and shut the conversation down when he feels like he's heard and said enough for one night.

As it stands, I am REALLY serious about moving west; looking at jobs and the housing market in Phoenix right now. Seems there are a few biotech firms out there that are up and coming and the industry is growing out there. Cost of living is still pretty low, so my dollar will stretch pretty far.

This type of move will definitely have a negative impact on DS in the short term. I know kids are resilient and blahbetty blah; I sure as heck was, moving overseas at 7 and then back to the states at 12, but I want to spare him as much pain as I can. I really feel like this is my chance to venture out on my own, make a whole new life. I'm not running away, as moving would be a whole lot tougher than stayin' put. Nope. I'm looking to do what is best for me and DS. I can't drop myself out of that equation anymore.

Anyway, I do prattle on, don't I

Guy, we all love you, and hope that you go on to better things. I gotta say, you've got a lot to offer the next gal.

SD,

Well, it's always sad when the news comes whether you knew it was coming or not. And it is sad. My parents were married 60+ years, and I can't imagine what it would have been like had they divorced. Having your mom and dad always there and together is something we just expect. I'm sorry for the kids. And sorry for you too.

Well, you can now plan the rest of your life, at least the near future, with no guilt, knowing that you did everything possible to keep this from happening.

I hope that you stick around. You've been a big help to many of us on here and I would hate to see you leave. Besides, we'll all be curious as to how quickly the A implodes now that the D is final.

Thanks, ladies. I feel pretty okay.

CL, I'll be around. Posting is still therapeutic for me, and sometimes I post my own stuff just because I think it might help someone else. Or make them laugh. And sometimes I even wander onto other peoples' threads and offer support.

SL, I would tell you that there are lots of biotechs in the San Diego area, but San Diego is a pretty expensive place to live.

Yeah, the cats been outta the bag on that little tidbit for many moons. It would be ideal, but this girl's gotta stretch her dollars. I'll come and visit ya, though

Since I didn't make this type of move when I was young, I feel like this is my last major opportunity prior to retirement, which, by the time it came to be my turn, could be when I'm 80

Man.. lots of stuff in the last few days to trigger over, but you're handling it well and giving a master class to the rest of us.

I'm sorry to hear the D went through, but in a way I'm kind of relieved for you. Your plan though will allow you to wake up every morning and know that the man in the mirror did everything he could to keep his family together.

I am curious though at the changes that will come for you in your thinking in the weeks following this... also kind of curious to see if it changes SCQ's approach to things. It sounds, even in her rejection of the counciling that she's attempting at least to be civil, rather than on the attack as is her usual MO.. and I think you're right that you're going to be better off addressing her directly rather than beating her over the head with the research. Heck.. she even gave you an answer as to how you can get her to agree... a child psychologist might actually be a good idea, rather than someone who typically deals with adults. I'm sure as rampant as divorce and adultery is in this country.. any reputable child psych will be well equipped to help your kids through this, and will probably be even more in tune with their particular needs.

I do however think it's time to take the kid gloves off, and if she's asking for specific examples of why you think this is so hard on the kids.. I'd give them to her. Some of the things the kids have said are troubling, and would be devistating for her to hear.. but you know what? Maybe it's time for her to hear them.. not to hurt SCQ necessarily, but to let her know that one of your main concerns is their relationship with her, and how the new family arrangement is sitting with them, and coloring their perception of her.. Now.. she can go one of two ways on this.. the light -may- come on and she'll realize that she's dug this hole for herself.. or more likely she'll take the easy way out and blame you for orchestrating how her kids feel about her. Here, we know that isn't true.. but you're not responsible for her if she refuses to see the truth.. and getting it in front of a councelor of some sort ought to be the big flashing light that you're -trying- to help in their relationship with her, rather than hurt her, or them in all of this.. I admire you though as I know how difficult it is to be truthful, open, and honest with your kids, and somehow not paint SCQ as she truly is.



Big brother.. you've got a lot of admiration from out here in the cornfields of Indiana. An ex of mine who I still talk to from time to time said something to me that I'm sure most here will support in me saying to you.. 'You're going to suprise someone some day Guy.. At some point, some incredibly lucky woman is going to wake up next to you, and realize exactly what she has and how lucky she is to have it.. and that's going to be the one for you.'

Strangely enough.. this was an ex who broke up with me years and years ago to chase after some other guy.. heh.. my cyclical life I suppose..

She and I are better/best friends anyhow...


But she's right.. and I know it's true for you as well.

Keep your head held high... and don't forget about us here who are still trudging through the bog.

Hi SD,

I am sorry for the D. We're all here making the best of a situation none of us wanted, and helping each other along the way.

I am glad to hear that you plan to stick around and share, as I certainly look forward to checking in and see how you are doing.

Your honesty, courage, humour, intelligence, concern for others, just to name a few, is very much appreciated.

...and I wish you the best in the NEXT CHAPTER of your life.

SD

Hey, Louisiana's on the way to Phoenix!

kinda

you could make it on the way at least

SD,

I hope you're at least feeling some relief. I was completely indifferent to EXWW by the time it was final, but I still felt a lot of relief. I could see the door open. I felt very free.

Regardless, find some peace Brother, you need it, you deserve it.

Hmm. I got really tired this morning. Like, can't concentrate tired. I think my body is processing.

At times, I think I can hear a little voice in the back of my head saying "you can stop now."

I talked with my IC yesterday about counseling for the kids. She was challenging me on whether they really need it (at least partially because the SCQ was opposed to it--I think she tries to prevent me from tilting at windmills, which must mean that I am a challenging patient).

Where does "I am seeing significant signs of trouble from my children and believe they need counseling" end and "I am so pissed off at the SCQ. Maybe if I take the kids to counseling I can make her Get It" begins.

I'm trying to take a step back.

Yup, I can relate.

'course, *I* have another little voice in my head that has to argue with THAT voice, telling it that I don't HAVE TO stop now, that I have my reasons for not stopping, etc, etc.

My head is a very busy little place. No wonder I get tired.


Sometimes, I think they are just out for everyone to get along. Because that is what is EASIEST.

I'm glad I took DDs to a counselor, even if she wasn't that great for supporting the marriage itself. At least then I knew that I HAD looked for an outside voice, that it was not all just my take on their situation and how they were handling it.

It may only take ONE session to get there. He/She can interview the kiddos, interview you, and give you suggestions on how to best deal with the children. If necessary, he/she will recommend a plan with continuing counseling.

It's not bad to want to know they are ok and you are doing everything for them that you can be, sdguy.

Don't let anyone convice you that if you just got along then everything would be hunky dory for the kids.


So....you can get a run at her, right?

Fox

You crack me up, Fox. That was perfect.

And this one, too. It was a double-laugh-out-loud post.

You're a great lady, Fox. SL didn't take my bait on moving to San Diego, but the Del Mar horse park is only a couple of miles from my house. I'm pretty sure they need people who know how to break horses. . . .

Not sure what I'd do without all you guys. I think some of the peace BC talked about is creeping in. I'm watching out for the anger POM warned me about and listening when he says not to date yet. Reading everyone's posts and appreciating everyone's words.

I had a great night with the kids last night and expect another one tonight, and then I get a whole weekend to myself.