No, NO, NO! Will someone else please come along and help me here?

Every single comment in your response is based on YOU. What YOU think she wants. What YOU think a wife should have. What YOU want her to enjoy. You are so smart, so educated, so self-assured, that you fail to see that the rest of us neanderthals don't hover in the same exosphere with you. We have rational feelings and thoughts and needs and fears. You wife has them.

Where is her voice?

I haven't seen her voice in a single thing you've said.

If my husband walked around being confident in knowing what I wanted, what I liked, what I needed, and being so darned sure - like YOU are - that he is pleasing me, I would kick his ever-lovin' carcass to the curb! Luckily for my husband, he does have SOME sense of wanting to know what I want.

Bring your wife here. Ask her to post on this thread about what she wants out of life, and whether she's getting it from you.

I DARE YOU.

The things my wife likes are different from what you like. I believe I said I listen to my wife.

I have had a woman who was a silent type, for whom I was at a loss to know what she wanted, or how to please her.

Sometimes, when my wife's describing her desires becomes tiresome, I remind myself that it is a blessing to understand a long list of what my wife has asked for.

What questions would you like your husband to ask you? What questions do you suggest I ask my wife, to encourage her to express her wishes and desires?

I am confident that I know what my wife wants, because I have created an atmosphere in the home, and on the phone, that I am usually willing to listen as long as she has ideas. Occasionally I am in the middle of work or chores, and cut a conversation short, but that is rare. I carry a cell phone, and am available to my wife. I call her in the morning as she is going to work, usually with 1/2 an hour to talk, if she wants to.

I often call my wife at the start of her lunch break, with an hour and a half for her to talk to me, if she wants to. I often call her as she is finished work, and she can talk for any length. She often goes shopping or visiting her relatives after work, and only occasionally comes home to cook dinner.

My wife mostly gets what she wants. Certainly she wants more, for less money. My wife has no reason to come on a forum to discuss marriage issues, because I largely give her what she wants, and treat her with love and respect.

My tone on the forum is looking to ask for more from my wife in return. I make an effort to refine my requests to be considerate and persuasive.

Admiration, Atta Boy, WTG, Way to go is not excessively burdensome. Certinaly I would enjoy a 7 course meal every night, ready when I get home, and more companionship with things I like to do. But those wishes are not the reason I started this thread.

What could your husband do for you, that would make you more willing to give him Admiration? What opportunties have you passed up yesterday, or today, to give your husband a WTG? How long would that take for you? Have you asked your husband what you might be overlooking in recognizing the efforts he makes to improve your world?


..

Maybe phrases like, "I'm glad you recognized that."

"Your recognition of my efforts to _____ makes me feel good."

"Thanks for noticing."

"Give me a hug to expand that feeling of recognition."




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Hmnnnn... unfortunately, that comes across actually as criticism. (Perhaps to a man, it sounds straightforward... to me, it sounds critical).

I would encourage you to try exactly what I said "THANK YOU for saying 'abc', that felt really good". And then hug HER, rather than ask her for one.

The reason I say to thank her like that is because when SHE feels good as a result of giving you appreciation, then she will want to do it more. If she feels it is not enough, and you are going to try and keep "teaching" her how you want her to give more and do it more often, then it will not feel good for her.

Unintentionally, your remarks have that tone.

Let your remarks show happiness and gratitude, and it will go a lot further.

Also, when your wife hurts you (as she did by disprespecting you about the car), try simply saying "OUCH" and walking away. You don't have to let her yell at you or demean you about something like that...

Go and fix it as you did, and then later you could say "I'm glad we could laugh about this now, but it hurt my feelings when you yelled about the car." I know few women who won't apologize when they think they've hurt their husband's feelings.

Senator, you have to learn the art of speaking in a way a woman will understand. You are "coaching" her in a way that might make sense for a man, but for a woman it's different.

Be happy and appreciative when she does something you like... move towards her for a hug if you want one (instead of asking her to expand her expression of thanks), and tell her when she hurts your feelings.

Tell her what feels good--rather than speaking in such a stilted manner. "It feels so good when I know you appreciate what I'm doing".

It's foreign, I know, but worth a try. I have some book recommendations for you later that might help you ask for what you want in a way she is more likely to hear. She obviously isn't hearing it through the way you normally speak.

And one last thing... I frequently violate my husband's desire to feel admiration, simply because I like to be part of the process of things. By talking about what he's doing with what he even THINKS is a contrary opinion, he can feel the opposite of validated.

I'm not trying to make him feel bad. I wonder if your wife's actions that make you feel bad are unintentional...

Senator, you have a really strong - really strong - undertone of superiority in your posts. Not an intentional one, but one based on accomplishment. I'm not saying you walk around patting yourself on the back. I gather that you are confident with yourself. You are proud of your work. Prouder yet of your intelligence and reasoning skills. Keep an orderly life. Have sound goals, great plans to reach them, and are satisfied with everything in your life except for the loss of connection with your wife. Am I close?

I'm trying to get you to place yourself in your wife's position. If she sees this tone of superiority, if she lives with a man who is constantly in control, can handle everything, doesn't need her help to manage life, keeps his thoughts to himself, isn't spontaneous, expects everything (including her) to look nice, basically has it all together...if she lives with such a man, she is probably living a pretty shallow - and therefore unhappy - life.

Of course you meet all her superficial needs. You're that kind of guy. But do you fire her passion? Do her eyes light up when you come in the room? Does she brag about you to everyone? Does she rearrange things so that she can spend extra time with you? Does she engage in talk about you and your goals and challenges on a regular basis? Does she really seem to care?

I'm going to guess that the answer is no. I've been trying to tell you why that would be, but we are having trouble here connecting on the same plane. I suspect your wife experiences the same thing, and has long since given up of ever accomplishing that.

What I'm trying to say is this:
If the life I just described is what you two have, there is nothing you can ask here that will work to get her to admire you or show admiration, because she probably does NOT admire you. Well, maybe on some level. But on an emotional level, I'm pretty sure she just sees you as the man she married and she's got a fine life, but it'll never be the one she dreamed of as a teen, where you two are best friends and can't wait to share with each other and you make her feel like a queen every day (emotionally, not monetarily), and she tells everyone how lucky and fulfilled she is.

Let me show you some examples of your frame of reference that tell me this. If what I say doesn't make sense, print all this out and take it to a psychologist and ask them what they think. You have said:

The things my wife likes are different from what you like. I believe I said I listen to my wife. Have you asked her if she is fulfilled? If not, you are placing your own filter on her happiness; i.e., she should be happy because I'm doing XYZ for her and I've determined that she likes XYZ.

I have had a woman who was a silent type, for whom I was at a loss to know what she wanted, or how to please her.

Sometimes, when my wife's describing her desires becomes tiresome, I remind myself that it is a blessing to understand a long list of what my wife has asked for. This is a DJ (disrespectful judgment) and highly indicative of your impression of her. I recognize it because my H has it too. He tolerates me and my feelings. He thinks they are weak, or unnecessary or somehow less important than his; perhaps because I'm a woman and he's a man - men's thoughts are more productive, important and valuable. And if I recognize it from way over here, you can bet the farm that your wife sees how less valuable you see her and her feelings - and responds by not admiring you.

What questions would you like your husband to ask you? What questions do you suggest I ask my wife, to encourage her to express her wishes and desires? I suggest you ask her if she is truly happy. Ask her if she got what she expected out of life and out of being married to you. Ask her how you make her feel. Ask her if she thinks you respect her and admire HER. Ask her if she's happy she married you. Ask her what she would change about YOU if she could change anything she wants. Ask her if she would like you to go to a counselor with her.

I am confident that I know what my wife wants, because I have created an atmosphere in the home, and on the phone, that I am usually willing to listen as long as she has ideas. Occasionally I am in the middle of work or chores, and cut a conversation short, but that is rare. I carry a cell phone, and am available to my wife. I call her in the morning as she is going to work, usually with 1/2 an hour to talk, if she wants to. So you are treating her like your daughter? What you describe is what a parent does for a child. Everything you just described is what YOU have determined your marriage needs - NOT what she has determined the marriage needs. You have arranged yourself out of your wife's admiration through this control and self-satisfaction of yours.

I often call my wife at the start of her lunch break, with an hour and a half for her to talk to me, if she wants to. I often call her as she is finished work, and she can talk for any length. She often goes shopping or visiting her relatives after work, and only occasionally comes home to cook dinner. Do you not recognize the control in this situation? She knows that you will call her. She knows that you expect her to talk in these prearranged times, like the dutiful wife you expect her to be. And more DJs - you may think that you merely describing that she goes off and does her own thing is simply stating facts, but in reality, you are judging her for shopping and visiting and not cooking. I guarantee if you asked her, she would tell you that she senses that you have such views of her and her activities. You can't hide disrespect and judgment from your spouse. And if she feels it from you, you can bet she doesn't feel like fixing anything.

My wife mostly gets what she wants. Certainly she wants more, for less money. My wife has no reason to come on a forum to discuss marriage issues, because I largely give her what she wants, and treat her with love and respect. More DJ (she wants more), more of you assuming you know what she wants (gets what she wants), more control (largely GIVE her what she wants), and more self-satisfaction (love and respect). These are all YOUR thoughts, not hers. Again, it is YOU assuming. People will go along with something for a million reasons, typically out of self-protection. I am guessing she learned long ago that this is all she's going to get from you, so she will ask for the shallow material life she can get from you, because she knows you'll give it to her, and has given up hoping for anything more; but in the meantime, she has lost her admiration for you because you have failed her.

My tone on the forum is looking to ask for more from my wife in return. I make an effort to refine my requests to be considerate and persuasive.

Admiration, Atta Boy, WTG, Way to go is not excessively burdensome. Certinaly I would enjoy a 7 course meal every night, ready when I get home, and more companionship with things I like to do. But those wishes are not the reason I started this thread. And as we keep telling you, you can NOT MAKE your wife do anything. If a person does not show you admiration, there is a reason! She does not admire you! Not showing admiration is not an issue with her, but with YOU! Can you not see the logic in that? Giving you accolades IS burdensome if she doesn't feel it! Why doesn't she feel it? ASK HER!

What could your husband do for you, that would make you more willing to give him Admiration? What opportunties have you passed up yesterday, or today, to give your husband a WTG? How long would that take for you? Have you asked your husband what you might be overlooking in recognizing the efforts he makes to improve your world? Ok, here's the tough one, the real one, the EASY one. It is complicated, because each marriage has a history of feelings and actions built up - on both people's sides - that affect how willing someone is to be a Giver. If you are depleting her Love Bank for you by Love Busting (I assume you've read the material here), she will NEVER feel like giving you admiration. She will be too fed up with you.

You can meet 100% of a person's Emotional Needs, if you keep filling her bucket, but if you are consistently Love Busting her, those ENs you meet just get constantly drained away by the holes you punch in the bucket through the Love Busting.

What could my husband do? He could stop hating minorities. He could stop thinking that - and acting like - he's smarter and more capable of me. He could stop controlling what car we buy, what house we buy, how we spend our time. He could stop making decisions FOR me instead of asking me to make the decisions WITH him. He could stop buying me jewelry and clothes that I never asked for, and pay off his bills instead so I can feel financially secure. He could get up off the couch and ask if I need help with the dishes. He could ask me what needs to be taken care of around the house - and DO it! He could stop going to work on his landscaping project in the forest behind our house every time I ask him to do something else. He could go through our 3-car garage that's so full of his stuff that we can barely fit a lawnmower in it, and get rid of his 30 years of stuff he hasn't looked at in 30 years, so I can have a sense of peace and order. He could stop criticizing our daughter and start trusting her to make the right decisions. He could stop embarrassing me in front of other people.

Should I go on? Do you see the point yet?

Sure, I could show him admiration. But I don't want to. Because, in 30 years, I have asked and asked and asked for what I need. Instead of giving it to me - or even trying! - he dismisses what I say and proceeds to give me what HE thinks I want and need. I am nothing more than another piece of property; one that he loves, to be sure, but one that he is superior to and therefore needs to control.

How many times do you see us tell people to stop Love Busting? To start listening? To learn to be humble enough to admit that just maybe you DON'T have all the answers, and that maybe, just maybe, she can teach YOU a thing or two.

Once you reach that magic point, where you let her teach YOU, you'll start to see the admiration.

Senator:
I think you're really trying. I do. I like what you said about providing time so that your wife can talk. Do you think your wife feels heard during these conversations? Just wondering.

I'd like to suggest you begin validating during these conversations as well, by saying things like (for instance) "So what you're saying is that you were hurt when your friend didn't invite you to her night out with the girls?" Make sureyou understood what she was talking about by paraphrasing it. By doing this, she knows that you were listening because you could paraphrase it. It also provides her with an opportunity to clarify what she was saying in the event that you misunderstood her.

This is a really good thing to start doing because it builds trust and strengthens your relationship in the process.

I thought I'd read something about desiring the WTGs and Attaboys to be on a daily basis...

I have to be honest with you - I might be in the same category as your wife because I am not one to dole out such praise so frequently. Perhaps I should. However, I have to wonder (and please don't be offended by this because it isn't intended this way) if your parents didn't praise you enough? If that's the case, it isn't your wife's job to make up for that. Occasional praise should be given, but daily praise for just getting through the daily grind is not really realistic. We all have bad days. We all go to jobs that we often don't like. We don't expect accolades for that. We just do what needs to be done to put food on the table and money in the bank to pay the bills. I would wager your wife does her daily chores because they need to be done, not because she likes to do them. Does she get praise when she washes the dishes, mops the floor, goes to her job and works overtime when necessary.

So, I guess what I'm saying is the daily, ordinary things should not be 'praise' worthy. Do children get praised daily for going to school?

My husband just fixed our bathroom door. The frame needed to be tightened,and the door needed to be sanded. I hadn't even realized how much it was annoying me because my tolerance level is quite high for things like that. However, once it was fixed, I realized THEN just how much it had annoyed me because of how pleasurable it was to be able to close that door without it rubbing the frame. I praised him at least twice for that.

It could be that your wife has a high tolerance level overall and has a hard time being empathetic with a husband with a low tolerance level for the daily grind.

Aside from maybe the second one, the rest of these sound downright SARCASTIC!!! "Give me a hug to expand that feeling of recognition?" ????? Good god, is she your wife or your child? Or your dog?

What assertive strategies have you tried, other than withholding Admiration?

Are you familiar with the Baroque Boring Response by Suzette Elgin in YOU CAN'T SAY THAT TO ME? I apply Elgin's suggestion with a little more respect, and Admiration thrown in, with pleasant gibberish, in repsonse to Abusive situations.

What interrupting strategies do you have ready, if uncaring is encountered from your spouse? Can you go to the basement to do Ironing and Washing? Can you go to the store to get a loaf of Italian bread? Ever Read the INTIMATE ENEMY books? They desribe how to get, and give, space, for overnight at your mother's, or some place not to arouse jealousy.



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Thanks for the suggestions, Senator! May I ask why you know about all this?

Did you want me to help you organize your control freak husband's stuff?

Talk to your produce section people the next time you go to a supermarket. Find some boxes that have tops, so you can stack the boxes. Apple or Pear usually work OK. Gets some large white lables and a sharpie marker pen. Office supply stores have boxes with tops also, for stacking.

Create some categories for sorting his stuff. Put some labels on a stack of empty boxes. Family photos, Papers 1970 to 1980, Books, DVD's. CDS. VHS Tapes, House Repairs, Car Parts, Reviewed 2008, Parenting etc.

Then prepare to sleep someplace else for a day or two, if you need to, so if he blows up, you can escape the volcanic ash.

Then you can suggest that you could spend some time together sorting his stuff. Try not to move anything, without his agreement. Maybe a box, "Discard 1/2009"

..

As usual, you didn't answer my question. Why do you know so much about this?

mmmhmmm...what demon in you does it feed?
Why does the "temptation' exist? What is the twisted pay off to you? What triggers the desire to feed off others discomfort?

...others will have to be the judge of that.
Enlightened_Ex
My H is also an engineer....and I will have to attest that this is more OFTEN than not, precisely the case....no matter how glaringly WRONG he is...*sigh*
Lord have mercy.... you do her thinking for her too?


Interesing thing here...you FEEL that you DESERVE to be Admired for making it through the daily grind as you put it....on what basis?
Bringiton
Agreed.^^^
SenatorH
Oy vey!
Loaded gun there....why did you put the bullets in it in the first place?
Listen but don't hear? Could be the problem...as you decide what "ideas of hers are worth listening to..."

Why do you NOT invite your wife to post? Does she even know about your participation on this forum?
SenatorH
1. You have asked her to be a 'mind reader'....??? How well has that worked for you to date?
2. Tit for Tat? Very childish ....You *punish* her by 'avoiding' her family as a foot stomping attempt to gain admiration with respect to your feelings on ....what precisely..? The logic .... sorry...but there just isn't any...need more dots.

^^^^Neither approach, which are in any way, shape or form "admirable."

I am willing to bet that your passive aggressive method of getting what you want...has been figured out long ago by your wife. She knows where to bleed you...

Now...ask yourself, WHY would she want to do that?
The answer to that has been posted several times in this thread...and each time, you have side stepped the question...
What do you Admire about your wife?

Senator, several people have suggested that the reason you need to 'get' your wife to show admiration is that YOU make her not want to.

Do you have an answer to that?

I believe the reason my wife withholds Admiration is becuase she does not think of giving Admiration, of her own volition, as often as I would like to receive Admiration.

When I ask for recogniton of some effort or another, and my wife is not rushing off late, out the door, my wife will usually pause and give me a hug.

So it is not a conscious decision that my wife has made to refuse to give me Admiration. It is more that it has not occurred to her, that our marriage might be improved by her fufilling one of my needs, that is simple to fulfill.

Therefore, I am working on requests for what I would enjoy from my wife. Wording, timing, etc, Also times not to ask for Admiration, which may lead to resentment or rejection.

I am getting more Admiration from my wife, but I am still working on the optimal balance of asking, or waiting to ask, or jotting down phrases that are comfortable for me to receive a rejection of a request for Admiration. I rarely get rejected, but my ego fears to ask for Admiration because of the possible rejection, which would have a double reverse effect on my original intent, of receiving Admiration.

Some people aknowledge their weaknesses. I have learned how to recognize my strengths and weaknesses, and to keep my self-esteem. Some people have not learned to feel good about themselves, if they admit any faults. My wife feels bad if any of her faults are brought to light. So it is an additonal challenge for me, to ask for Admiration, without any insinuation that my wife could have done better.



..

First, I believe you are purposely ignoring what every single poster has said to you. You're a logical person - figure this out: If there are 100 people in a room, and 99 of them see a mouse running around, and the 100th person sees a dog running around and not a mouse, what do you think is running around, a mouse or a dog?

You keep coming back to get the answer you WANT, which is how to change your wife. And they answer you NEED is to change yourself.

I guarantee you that it occurs to your wife to give you admiration. And then she thinks, "Oh, no need to. He has enough admiration of himself to supply it for both of us. And he sure as h&ll isn't giving me what I need; so I'm not going to give him what HE needs."

Second, you are wrong. You have NOT acknowledged your weakness. Your weakness is either a sense of self-righteousness so strong that it's impossible for you to deign yourself to be as common as the rest of us peons down beneath you, or else a sense of vulnerability and self-hate so strong that you have enacted such a high wall of protection from feelings - probably during your childhood - that you would have to crash and hit rock bottom before you would be able to understand what you are lacking.

Either way, you'll never get what you crave from your wife. Because you don't deserve it. Not the way you treat her.

If you refuse to see what the other 99 of us in the room see - that you treat her with an unsufferable air of superiority - then you'll spend the rest of your life in misery.

Can you explain your Gurantee?

I think that in the ordinary course of the day, my wife is not taking the pause, to take the perspective of, "How Can I Show My Husband Admiration."

Perhaps, for many women, and spouses in general, may often think admiring thoughts about their husband or spouse, but do not express the feelings.

I believe my wife does not easily shift focus, so it may occur to her less often than others, how Admiration for her husband may be expressed. Even when the thought of Admiration occurs, it may be at a time when expressing the Admiration to me, may be inconvenient, or awkward.

Perhaps another way to ask for Admiration, could be, "Honey, have you had any thoughts of Admiration for me, that occurred to you recently, that you remember?"


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#$!^&@#*$^$!^%$

Let me say this as plainly as I can (and I say this for your benefit, so you will finally see it):

YOUR WIFE DOES NOT LIKE YOU.

YOU TREAT HER LIKE A CHILD OR AN INCOMPETENT WHO YOU HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR OR DECIDE IF HER THOUGHTS ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO BE WORTH LISTENING TO.

YOU DON'T DESERVE HER ADMIRATION.

Why she stays, I have no idea. She may not even know she doesn't like you. But she is protecting herself from your overbearing self-righteousness.

Get thee to a shrink and find out why you have this need to be better than everyone, and ask for help to learn how to EARN your wife's admiration.

Cat, I admire you for being so persistant in your efforts to get through to SenatorH, even though none of it seems to be working. It's not you -- it's him. He has been posting here off and on for years. Past posters -- some of them very wise people -- have not been able to get through to him either.

BTW, I have the same problem as you with the pack-rat hubby... the only reason he hasn't filled up the garage is because we don't have one. But the basement, spare bedrooms, and closets are chock full! We need the Clean Sweep team from that cable show to come in and transform our lives!

GBH, thanks for letting me know. I've wanted to give up on him; if I'd known he'd been doing this for years, I would have by now.

And I hear you. Clean House (on Bravo) is my favorite show on tv. The houses they show make me feel so much better about my own!

Cat, I hear you about not wanting to leave a poster posting without responses. But there are times where I've found that I am posting the same thing to someone, and we aren't growing, learning new things, just rehashing the same conversation. A mentor told me that when I find myself saying the same thing again, that I need to check my intent, because I may be trying to control. And often for me, I find that I am not letting go of the response. That doesn't help the poster, because they have been given already everything they need to solve the puzzle, and may just not be ready to accept how the pieces in front of them are fitting together. I am speaking really generally here, not about Senator. Me talking again about the piece that I understand really is not helping that person zoom out to the big picture. So that they can get to acceptance, and move on to choosing their action.

For example, I was hoping that Senator would get HNHN or delve into the Basic Concepts and learn about implementing the basic concepts as a whole. I had suggested UA time, and Senator said that he had suggested going out to eat at a restaurant she likes, to talk about admiration. That wasn't the response I was hoping for. I had hoped that he would plan something that they had done while dating, have fun playing together, just being themselves, without a goal in mind, and rediscover together how much fun that can be. I had to let go of the response, though. Instead, I can root for him silently, from the sidelines.