here are some of your answers to a few questions i will go back through your replys and try and find all your questions and answer them.

To begin with i know the affair is still on because she has set up a special email account for the two of them and has now separated our phone bills but then she always gets the mail before me, something she used to never do.

i've been working on meeting her EN's and trying to filling the LB so far no signs that is working. she has repeatedly said she's ready to file together to save money and we were supposed to file next week now she wants to wait until the new year in order to work down our debt. i am not willing to do that because we have to give a 90 day waiting period before D proceedings can start and even then we have up to 3 years to do that. i have confronted her about the affair and she swears they aren't still active which i know is a lie because of the phone and email. So out of my own self respect i am filing just to get the 90 days going. so far she has acted as if she's in charge of everything that takes place. By my doing this perhaps she'll see that she is not in control. i see it as a wake up call to her because she's not expecting it. i'm tired of the continuing lies and denial from her and i'm split down the middle as to what to do. half of me still wants to save it the other half says move on. i am reading SAA and it's been an eye opener. i have also continued to expose it to everyone but it doesn't seem to effect her and i also feel that the people i've told don't want to get involved by calling her on what she's doing. I did get a call from a friend who was a WW wife and ended up reconciling with her husband after an affair by writing my wife to let her know the mistake she is making and how much it effected her children and also to let her know that her marriage is now stronger than ever. but i don't know if my wife even read it. i wasn't aware she was doing it but am glad she did but i see no signs that it had any effect. sorry to ramble so long, got to get back to work now.

thank you

IDWAD,

Do you realize that by telling her you don't want a divorce and by trying to meet her EN'S, yet going ahead and filing that you are sending a mixed message??? How is she supposed to know that you would rather reconcile if you go and file??? Just so you can get past the 90 day waiting period????

90 days is ONLY 3 months my friend. That is not a very long time if you decide to change your mind down the road.

As far as people not wanting to step in, well, that's pretty common. Very sad that people cannot take a stand on their own morals or beliefs, but some do. Have you told her parents??

Actually, whom exactly have you told???

not2fun

IDWAD,

Do you want a divorce?

If yes, then file and move on.

If no, then don't file, don't make it easy for her to file and don't make divorce a topic of conversation.

If you want your marriage and she brings up divorce simply say "I only talk about marriage. My lawyer will discuss divorce.

You can drag your feet till she actually files and then drag your feet some more.

As for not seeing any results...

That is what I mean by having no expectations.

Time for the Rocks In The River Analogy again...
You arrive at the bank of a river and want to get across. The river is at or near flood stage and the current is strong. It's too deep to wade, too powerful to swim and there are no bridges in sight.

You pick up a rock and throw it into the stream only to see it vanish beneath the torrent.You throw another behind it and it too disappears without a trace. It's as if the rocks are vanishing from the face of the Earth.

But when you examine it logically you realize that the rocks can't be vanishing. They must in fact be piling up on the bottom of the river. So you throw another and another and another...

You throw 499 rocks into the water all without a sign that you are making any progress at all. And then you throw the 500th rock and just the tip of it is exposed above the waves. You now have a reason to hope and to continue and soon you have built a bridge that you can cross.

The point is that meeting her ENs and avoiding Love Busters WILL begin to fill her Love Bank. You do it without expecting to see it happening but continue to do it because logically you know it is working.

If she was certain she wanted to be gone, she would be gone.

Your ally right now is time and whoever you can expose to that can help pressure either of them to end the affair. Your enemy is the affair. As long as OM is in the picture she will not commit to staying with you and working it out and as long as you are meeting at least some of her ENs then she is not going to commit to leaving either. She will sit on the fence till you knock her off. But if you knock her off by filing for divorce, she WILL choose to go to OM and your marriage will have ended though you had the chance to save it.

Once OM is gone it will take the 90 days or longer for the fog to begin to clear and for her to stop lamenting the loss of OM and their "special" love. That is with no contact with him.

Dr Harley says that you should try to do Plan A for 6 months. Then he suggests Plan B which is a separation with as little contact as possible (ideally none) for as long as two years after that before giving up and moving on with a divorce.

What you have to decide is if YOU are willing to put in the work it will take to save your marriage or if you just want to cut your losses and try to upgrade to a faithful wife. You get to decide that for yourself, but if you want to fight, you have to be in it for the long haul and half-a$$ed attempts will only frustrate you.

Divorce or fight?

Many here can help you fight and some can help you divorce.

Pick one!

Mark

update...

nothing has been filed but i did take her off the checking acct. which went over like a lead balloon. it did make us talk and she said she'd be willing do do counseling but still wanted a divorce. she had met with a lawyer last week and i'm sure they advised this and i told her so. i also sent her a copy of the trueheart letter and fessed up that i was the one who sent it hoping it would make her think about saving our marriage. she says it's over with the om but i don't know that i believe this. i'm doing my best to follow plan A bringing flowers and being up but yesterday has put a cloud over everything again. she was upset because we had agreed to not do anything until after the holidays but the attorney suggested i do it and i now wonder if it was the right thing. i did tell her last night that i wanted nothing more than to save our marriage and she said she didn't know if it was possible. i asked her to share her phone bill with me to prove there was no contact with om but she refused saying that was invading her privacy. i said if they weren't talking then there should be nothing to hide. i'm really confused as to what i should do. she wants me to put her back on the biz account and i'm not sure if that's the right thing to do. i welcome suggestions.

The answer is pretty simple, actually. She's not acting trustworthy. So don't give her your trust.

IDWAD,

SOOOOOOOO, she doesn't want to share her phone info. because THAT would be invading her privacy BUT.....she wants her name back on the checking account?????......


Waywards are so dillusional. Seriously, stop listening to her. No, it is NOT over with the POSOM. Don't even bother with trying to believe that one.

So it looks like your choice is to either

A...continue in Plan A until the holidays are over. This would include snooping my friend to verify that the A is still going on and exposing to all. You need to snoop. YOu need to know. This will eventually bug you till you do know. TRUST ME on this. I didn't want to snoop. Didn't want to know.....but all the wondering just tore me to pieces.......so save yourself the heartache and grief and just do it....

or

B....go ahead and file now. Which, is not what you have said to her....

So, quit listening to her, keep going on Plan A, and come here more often to get help and support. Honestly, your Plan A is probably not where it can be without having more contact here. It was hard enough for me to do this and I was here all the time....

So, did you finish "Surviving An Affair"????

not2fun

I seem to recall some of that... :RollieEyes:

IDWAD, once Not found out the truth it was days before she was able to confront her H with what she knew and soon thereafter they were headed for Recoveryville...

The light of truth will penetrate the darkness of lies and deception...

Uhmmmmmm....Mark you aren't rolling your eyes at me are you????.... :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes:


not2fun

Still Ready "Surviving an Affair" having a hard time figuring out her EN's other than conversation which i'm doing and bring flowers, cleaning up after meals and keeping house tidy. we all going away for the weekend as a family and i'm always doing my best to be in a good mood. have been staying out late after midnight doing business stuff which has made her call me during those times but i always manage to let it go to voicemail and i've got her wondering why i'm out so late because i used to never do that. i'm trying to appear that i'm moving on so to speak and not letting what is happening effect my mood. another book i'm reading suggested doing a 180 on my behaviour in order to let her see i'm not effected and from what i can see it's working to some degree with her calling me and then asking the next morning what time i got home. i still welcome all your advice and look forward to your respones.

IDWAD,

Sooooooo, you WANT her to think you are up to no good?? You WANT her to think you have moved on??? You WANT her to think you have lowered YOUR standards and morals, so she can feel what that is like???

How does this show your wife your love???

How does this evidence you want your marriage???

And WHY in the world would you want her to think that this is not effecting you???? She is crushing your world and you are just showing her its no big deal??


HOW does this show her you wanting to change and wanting you family to remain whole????

How does this show that she is more important than anything, including your work???

I am not sure why you are doing this. To me, this is a confusing message you are sending her.....I am not seeing in your actions that you really do want to stay married or keep your family whole....None of those actions are very loving.

And why you are out late working, she is probably in CONSTANT communication with OM, who is giving her tons of attention/affection/time......

Listen, I know this is hard. I know you are probably saying right now "Me be loving?? How is she being loving to me?? How is her boinking another man loving to me??? Why should I have to be the nice one??? Why do I have to do the right thing, when she is obviously not doing her part???".....trust me on this....I was the same way. Heck, I still struggle with those thoughts in recovery....

But that is the beauty of Dr. H's methods and Plan A. They are counter-intuitive.

You say you welcome our advice, but you aren't following it. Go back and re-read some of our post's, including Plan A.....

not2fun

Did you ever contact the OM's wife?

Is she still seeing him on weekends at the horse park?

Are they still communicating via email and affair phone?

I'm not doing this to lower my standards but at the same time i'm not going to sit around the house and pout and appear a wimp. my intent was to show her that i'm not crippling me even though it is...appearing as a wimp to her in my book is laying down and rolling over so she feels she is in control. which she's not.

both instances were legitmate and were done for my income to do these were both events that are vital to my business one she was even supposed to attend with me and backed out partly because our son was ill but she also "forgot" about it.

I have been extremely nice and show affection but when i do show effection she shuns it. i have brought flowers home twice in the last week and she was happy to get them but at the same time comment that she didn't want them. I'm bring more home tonight because the others are wilting.

i have not contacted the OM wife yet and i am planing on calling him too to ask him what his intentions are and to let him know not only are his actions effecting my world but my children's world to and that he needs to think about that my attorney even suggested letting him know that he and his wife both can be subpoenaed along with his phone records, email etc...

she is setting up a marriage counseling session for next week but i partly feel this is due to her meeting with the lawyer because they told me the same thing. she even said "i'll do one session but i still want a divorce"

i sent her the "Trueheart" letter if you all are familiar with it and she accused me of slandering her name. i told her i sent it as i thought it might make her think about what she is doing to me and our children. it didn't appear to have any effect. i even gave her several letters i've written her telling her how much she and the family means to me and she tells me she still hasn't read them yet.

she's was really nice today and i'm bending over backwards to do the same.

when i asked her what emotional needs i wasn't meeting she ignored me. i'm going back to re-read everything you've offered me and i sincerely appreciate it all. it's still damn confusing as to what is working as i can't tell anything is at this point.

more to come

IDWAD,

Being at home does not make it "appear" you are wimpy. Not crying, pouting, or arguing are all good things. Staying out late and not letting her know or answering her phone calls is not loving or a part of Plan A either.......

Everything else you are doing seems to be "spot on" with Plan A though. Remember though, NO EXPECTATIONS....you not doing this in order to get her to notice or end her affair, you are doing this in order to become the husband you should have been all along.....

As far as her saying she didn't read the letters, ignoring you when you ask what her EN'S are, or anything else she says....DO NOT LISTEN....(I would bet 10 to 1 she read those letters....probably made her angry too....its the wayward mind...do not even attempt to try and understand it....)...If you want try to figure out what her needs are, look back at your marriage, especially the last couple of years, and then look at the EN's list and figure out where you dropped the ball. Also, look back and look at the moments where she was happiest and what you were doing with her at that time.....its not the clearest way to figure out her needs, but it will get you closer to the answer....

As far as the counseling, well she is doing this to "appease" her guilt. Some around her will tell you this is a waste of time and money....as long as she is in her affair, she will not be willing to work on the marriage.


As far as the Trueheart letter, we around that here consider that "educating" your wife. Stop. It won't help and ends up being more of a love buster than anything.....

NOW....what is holding you back from calling his wife??? You need answers to this. Have you put a keylogger on your computer?? I can almost guarentee that they email each other and those emails will give you great insight into what you are dealing with...

And as far as calling him, DO NOT TELL anyone you are going to do this....just do it. Do not even tell his wife....you need to catch him on the surprise.....

So, continue in your Plan A, you seem to be doing well. And trust me, when you do hit one, you'll see by her reaction.

not2fun

ps...offer her a massage tonight.....

Is your WW still seeing the OM?
If so then do not go to counseling. Counseling does not work when a spouse is having an affair.

Talk to the OM is a waste of time.

You are wasting time by not exposing to the OMW.

i have been looking back on the good times and have come up with some things to implement in my plan. I gave her a foot massage last night as she had been on them all day working at a part time job she currently has and brought her flowers too. she thanked me for both and even hugged and gave me a little peck on the lips twice! it felt great. we are home together all weekend except she invited her parents over for dinner one night.

i am also going back over the EN list and working on figuring out her other EN's. it's difficult to do as she's not giving me anything other than we are keeping the peace through the holidays for the kids sake then she wants to file. I'm going to plan A my butt off until that time and pray she will come around.

thank you all for you help, it is appreciated!

and yet.....

Dear friends,

We had a good weekend together. I tried to kiss her but only got a peck when I tried to give her a real kiss she rebuked me simply saying no. I’m doing my best to follow plan A but I can see no results other than we aren’t having angry outbursts. But I have no expectations at all as I know I won’t get any. I’ve been thinking about sending her a card every day with something positive written in it…like how much I appreciate all she does…telling her to have a good day etc…is this a good idea or not?

In regards to speaking with OMW my concern is she will go to him with my call because she did the first time I spoke to her letting him know that I was going to confront him and WS. So I don’t know how much of a help she will really be since I don’t really know her.

I suspect strongly that she and the OM are still communicating and seeing one another when possible.

The problem with the keylogger is she has her on laptop so it’s very difficult to get access to that as she guards it like a hawk.

One last comment…her own mother who originally was on my side or so I thought because she didn’t want her grandchildren to go through a divorce is now as I recently found out paying for my wife to have a separate cell phone which is totally allowing the A to continue on. I haven’t confronted her yet as I’m concerned it will be a major LB and ironically my WS and her mother have fought for years but are now suddenly thick as thieves which is really confusing.

I welcome your comments and advice.

You are getting really good advice and ignoring it or making excuses. It's very frustrating.

In regards to speaking with OMW my concern is she will go to him with my call because she did the first time I spoke to her letting him know that I was going to confront him and WS. So I don’t know how much of a help she will really be since I don’t really know her.

You lost me with all the pronouns but I think you're saying:
In regards to speaking with OMW my concern is WW will go to OM with my call because WW did the first time I spoke to WW letting OM know that I was going to confront OM and WS. So I don’t know how much of a help OMW will really be since I don’t really know her.

If that's what you're saying, I don't see anywhere that you've called OMW. And, you don't tell WW or OM that you're going to expose, you just DO IT. The reason you don't tell them ahead of time is it gives them time to make up their stories and discredit you. OM can be saying to his WW "This guy IDWAD is a real basket case. He's gotten it into his head that I'm after his wife. I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to start something, he's that unstable. In fact, I'm kind of worried about our safety. Maybe I should take out a restraining order. He's totally wacked." How much is OMW going to believe you after that? JUST CALL HER.

The problem with the keylogger is she has her on laptop so it’s very difficult to get access to that as she guards it like a hawk.

She doesn't sleep? Bathe?
These are just excuses.

her own mother...is now...paying for my wife to have a separate cell phone... I haven’t confronted her yet as I’m concerned it will be a major LB...

Haven't confronted who? WW or MIL? Love busters only apply to your spouse, not outsiders. Still, if you plan to talk to MIL it only makes sense to avoid angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments. You can simply say "It hurts me that you are paying for WW's cellphone. This allows her to continue her affair with OM, and that breaks my heart. I wish you would reconsider." How is that a LB?

Good stuff Turtle though just to clarify OMW was the one who called IDWAD and clued him in on the affair.....

Now, IDWAD,

I'm not sure why you would call OMW unless you want to see what she knows now. I'm gathering she may a little more than you since she didn't turn the blind-eye to begin with. I do think you are smart in weighting your options about talking with her since the odds are good she will tell OM about your call and whatever you say since she is probably trying to hold her marriage together....

Turtle is right about the keylogger...you are just making excuses. Those were the same thoughts I had when I read your post. And I was the Queen of Excuses here just a short time ago. I know its scary....I know you are afraid of what she will do/say when she finds out you were on her computer, BUT it is the same as exposure. She WILL be angry...and she will get over it. Your marriage can survive her anger, it cannot survive her affair. YOu have a right to this informataion. You need to get it. It will give some peace of mind as to know what you are dealing with.

I am sure she sleeps so you have no excuse....

And as far as the MIL is concerned, turtle nailed that one to. Don't you think its quite the LB for your MIL to be helping her daughter destroy her marriage???

You need to stand up for yourself. You can do this in a calm assertive manner without LBing. It takes practive but can be done and when you do, your self-respect and yours wifes respect for you will grow......

As far as meeting the EN'S you seem to have a good handle on all of that....keep it up...

not2fun

Oh, gotcha. Thanks. I was really confused there (did it show? )
Carry on!