I am waiting patiently as I have been for the last few days. With no malice or ill intent. I just want to hear what you have to say( about McCain)

Well hello Medc. Nice to see you again. I haven't seen you post here in a bit. Welcome back to the party. Are you enjoying the game.

I noticed this too. Good luck getting them to acknowledge anything negative about McCain, that might burst the bubble.

AGG

An interesting point of view, given that you refuse to answer questions about WHY you might support Obama rather than McCain. Seems as though you might just have "avoiding questions down to a science" too.



Who ever said anything about McCain being "good and wholesome," and by WHAT standard are you applying those terms to? Just HOW is Barack Obama so "good and wholesome" that you think he "fits that bill" better than John McCain?



You are welcome to surmise anything you wish, DIG. But while you are at it, why don't YOU answer those very questions about why YOU might think Obama "answers them better" than McCain, in YOUR opinion?



Have not seen you post one "open-minded" thing. Not one post that indicates anything other than you "don't like McCain," and it's really not much of a stretch to assume you are FOR the only other candidate who may become the next President.






I have answered Krazy ad nauseum on previous threads and see no reason to indulge him any further. His response to you is, therefore, quite incorrect and merely another of his attempts to belittle anything or anyone who does not agree with him. And your agreement with him is also incorrect.

What does Krazy NOT LIKE about Obama? Nothing. He LOVES Obama and everything about him.

What do YOU not like about Obama?



"Honey," you "got tired" after a WHOLE 3 pages? I apologize that you had to do so much work. But it seems as though, like Obama, you want someone who HAS done the work to simply hand you the results with no effort on your part.

Perhaps you "missed it," but in the post IMMEDIATELY preceding you latest "lament," I DID post the "repost" and included a link to the thread so you could read further, to your heart's content.

But here you are, again, accusing me of NOT jumping to your wants and desire the instant you want it.

So, do YOU think someone who is not only in favor of infanticide, but who wants to prevent ANY limitations of any kind on abortions is FIT to be President, regardless of any other things you might like about the guy?

DIG and AGG, let me make this VERY simple for you.

I don't like that McCain had an affair and divorced his 1st wife.

I do like the fact that his marriage to Cindy HAS lasted and they have done wonderful things with children.

I respect McCain's first wife who not only has forgiven him but enthusiastically endorses him for President.

I don't like McCain's "all too readiness" to "reach across the aisle" to people like Ted Kennedy. I don't like his cosponsoship of McCain/Kennedy, McCain/Feingold, McCain/Lieberman.

I do like his readiness to be Commander in Chief, where even his running mate KNOWS and STATES that Obama is NOT ready.

I do NOT like McCain's attempt to grant anmensty to Illegal Aliens, but I do like McCain's "rethinking of that position" and his current support of Border Enforcement. Unlike Obama, who NEVER changes his far left ideas and does NOT reach across "the aisle" and who refused to joint the bipartisan "Gang of 14" because he wanted to support the "Democrat leadership line."

There are more. But I look at the SUM TOTAL of the candidate, and particularly of THE candidates from which we can choose, and VOTE after "adding it all up." The exception, as I have stated ad nauseum, is I WILL NOT vote for Obama because of his radical, "to-the-far-left of even the most liberal Democrats" position SUPPORTING infanticide and NO limitations of ANY kind on abortions. ABORTIONS KILL people, INNOCENT people.

Thank you, but NO THANK YOU to Obama. And I do NOT have to "like everything" about McCain when the choice is McCain or Obama, and that IS the only choice.

Well hey there DIG! I'm happy to see you too, and I'm doing just great! Hope all is well with you and yours!


HA!!! I had forgotten 'bout that...too funny!


I think you should just consider yourself "Delightful in Georgia" now!

Since this is a political thread, I suppose I should say something political on it...Not to argue or be argued with...Just stating what my views are and what my vote will be...

NO to Obama because of the abortion issue...my repentant heart condition and my conscience would not allow me to cast my vote for something that I know very deeply in my soul is wrong...

NO to McCain because he is married to his affair wife - his "wistress" as JustPeachy always said...I see him as an unrepentent adulterer...So again, my repentant heart condition and my conscience would not allow me to cast my vote that way...

So I will do a write-in of some sort I suppose...I've not decided yet...I know that I will go and vote...I think voting is such a wonderful privilege of freedom...I won't miss the opportunity to exercise that awesome right...

Anyway, y'all take care!

Mrs. W

FH, I agree with some of your points, but I must say that your "negatives" on McCain sound a lot like a response someone might give at a job interview when asked about their weaknesses - "Well, sometimes I do go home before 9pm, but I am working on that!".

This is what I hear when I see "he had an affair but he is now happily married to his affair partner, and even his ex approves". Come on, on GQ you would be saying that that marriage is illegitimate, and telling him to divorce Cindy and go back to his first wife.

Anyway, I do think that we all did the same thing - looked at the candidates and made a choice. And I think that as the recent discussions have shown, no one is going to change their mind, or anyone else's. All we are going to do is lose some respect for our fellow posters, which is unfortunate, since we are all here for supposedly the same reason, building good marriages.

AGG

Wrong.

Foreverhers has a great deal of personal integrity. He does not hold one position here and another on GQ.

FH, I've stated before that I would support the overturning of Roe v. Wade in favor of more comprehensive legislation. I don't believe for a second that Obama is pro-abortion as no one is really FOR abortion. In a perfect world, there would be no need for it and we most definitely do not live in such a world.

Now, as to your claim above, there was no reason to add the wording to the bill because there was already laws on the books in Illinois that protected babies born of failed abortions.

Here's the non partisan reviews of Obama's position:

'Born Alive' Baloney

Obama and 'Infanticide'

Here's a couple of quote's from Obama regarding this issue:

Ok for state to restrict late-term partial birth abortion

On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that.

Part of the reason they didn't have it was purposeful, because those who are opposed to abortion have a moral calling to try to oppose what they think is immoral. Oftentimes what they were trying to do was to polarize the debate and make it more difficult for people, so that they could try to bring an end to abortions overall.

As president, my goal is to bring people together, to listen to them, and I don't think that's any Republican out there who I've worked with who would say that I don't listen to them, I don't respect their ideas, I don't understand their perspective. And my goal is to get us out of this polarizing debate where we're always trying to score cheap political points and actually get things done.
Source: Fox News Sunday: 2008 presidential race interview Apr 27, 2008

We can find common ground between pro-choice and pro-life

Q: The terms pro-choice and pro-life, do they encapsulate that reality in our 21st Century setting and can we find common ground?

A: I absolutely think we can find common ground. And it requires a couple of things. It requires us to acknowledge that..

- There is a moral dimension to abortion, which I think that all too often those of us who are pro-choice have not talked about or tried to tamp down. I think that's a mistake because I think all of us understand that it is a wrenching choice for anybody to think about.

- People of good will can exist on both sides. That nobody wishes to be placed in a circumstance where they are even confronted with the choice of abortion. How we determine what's right at that moment, I think, people of good will can differ.

And if we can acknowledge that much, then we can certainly agree on the fact that we should be doing everything we can to avoid unwanted pregnancies that might even lead somebody to consider having an abortion.
Source: 2008 Democratic Compassion Forum at Messiah College Apr 13, 2008

There's no doubt this IS the single most divisive issue between the Republicans and Democrats. I contend though, that the Republican party uses this issue to keep the the religious community, that favors all out ban, hamstrung into supporting their party. They don't really want to see Roe v. Wade overturned because it would likely put 30% of their constituents on the table that could change to the Democratic party. As long as it exists, it keeps you tied to supporting their party.

As someone pointed out, there are already 7 of 9 Supreme Court Justices serving that were appointed by Republican presidents. Justices that were supposedly going to get Roe v. Wade overturned, yet it still has not been done. When faced with the actual opportunity to make that decision, they looked at the letter of the law outlined by our constitution and realized they could not make that decision. It would undermine all aspects of the democracy on which our great country is built.

Here's the problem FH, throwing around accusations of murder, slaughter and infanticide only serve to widen the gap on the issue of abortion. They actually do the cause of fighting against abortion more harm than good. It puts the pro choice members of society in a position to put very strict laws on the books to defend abortion rights rather than finding a compromise on the issue. If the ultimate goal is to lessen the amount of abortions taking place then why make such brazen attacks against the opposing side of the issue? Wouldn't it be a great accomplishment if both sides of the issue could work together to say cut the abortion rate by 40-50-60 percent? I would truly love to see that happen as would most pro-choice people. You're an intelligent man FH, take your absolute religious convictions out of the equation for a second and evaluate your stated goals versus tactics. Stop letting this single issue keep you tied to a party that says they want one thing, but on the other hand secretly hopes another. At the very least, they too realize that the outcome isn't likely to happen. I think EVERYONE'S cause of reducing abortion to a few a possible would be far better served.

Want2Stay

AGG - "Come on, on GQ you would be saying that that marriage is illegitimate, and telling him to divorce Cindy and go back to his first wife."

With all respect, AGG, I have NEVER said any such thing on the GQ forum or on any other forum for that matter.

His marraige to Cindy IS legitimate.

There ARE several other MB members would take the position you ascribed to me, but that is not my position.


"I must say that your "negatives" on McCain sound a lot like a response someone might give at a job interview when asked about their weaknesses - "Well, sometimes I do go home before 9pm, but I am working on that!".

This is what I hear when I see "he had an affair but he is now happily married to his affair partner, and even his ex approves"."

Obviously you can "say" or "think" anything you want to. That is your right.

But what I "hear" or what it "sounds a lot like," to borrow your phrase, is that some on MB might be a bit unforgiving when the people involved have forgiven. That would sort of be like someone saying that they are NOT going to forgive your wife even though you have forgiven her.

And that IS precisely the attitude that some members have stated when they state that "the only way to PROVE that you have repented is to divorce your current spouse and go back to your 1st spouse" (or I assume your previous 'legitmate' spouse however far back that might be).


"Anyway, I do think that we all did the same thing - looked at the candidates and made a choice."

Of course. And NEITHER of the candidates are "without flaws," or at least not in "agreement" with everything any one of us might "like."

And there ARE many members on MB who think that abortion is just peachy fine. But I am not one of them and I will NOT vote for Obama because he is not just "pro-abortion," he is radically pro-abortion for any and all reasons. He does NOT even consider a baby who survives an abortion attempt to even be a "person," and will not even grant that baby ANY rights, other than the "right to die."

He is a "monster," in my book, prancing around in sheeps clothing attempting to appear so good by appealing to emotions and class envy. He is a Socialist, through and through, both by his actions and by his "platforms."

He wants to claim "immunity" from his CHOSEN associations, but simply "add them up" and ask yourself a very reasonable question, do you BELIEVE he was just too stupid or ignorant to NOT KNOW, and accept by his choice to associate anyway, what they believed in and what they said and did?

Like him or not, John McCain has NEVER run from his associations. That's one of the reasons "Conservatives" like me have had such a hard time deciding to vote for him. He is NOT a "conservative" of the same type that I would "Enthusiastically" endorse. But he IS light years ahead of Barack Obama, and that IS the only choice we have, or we allow Barack to "win by default, by burying our heads in the sand, and refusing to CHOOSE" between the only two candidates who WILL be the next President, complete with all of that candidate's "plans" and "beliefs."

No one is questioning his integrity, gimme a break.

My point is that the GQ philosophy (as is Harley's, I believe), is that affair marriages are not legitimate. And yet the strongest proponents of that position are doing a "yeah...but he's happily married" on the issue when it comes to McCain.

Why not say it plain and simple, without the "but" - "McCain married his affair partner, and that shows poor judgment and lacking character. Despite that mistake, I will vote for him because A, B, C, etc"?

I am perfectly happy to do this about Obama (and have done so) - "Obama's association with Wright is horrible and shows poor judgment. His trying to deny ever hearing the ugly words sounds disingenuous to me. However, despite this, I will vote for him because I think he has the vision and intelligence that is needed to lead this country". Ya know?

AGG

And Obama's connection to the terrorist is still denied?
"I hardly knew the man"
Ummm, yeah. Sure he's just a guy down the street.



Some candidates have no honor to sell apparently.

Want2 - I am flat out time to go into this further right now, but I can PROVE that what you "believe" here is flat out the opposite of Obama's real position.

I sincerely hope I can find the time to type up the information.

It DOES need to be seen to be "believed."

If, for whatever reason, I can't get it posted "fast enough," I would suggest you check out the "Freedom of Choice" legislation that Obama has said that he would sign into law the second it hit his desk as President.

THAT legislation takes away ALL State's Rights to determine any abortion limitations of any kind.




IF they were groundless, I might agree with you. But in Barack Obama's case they are not groundless, they are HIS stated positions regardless of how he tries to "change" his stance when in front of various groups. There is a BIG difference between what Obama "says" and what he "believes." That's partly because he is a believer in the Alinsky school of politics that the "the end justifies the means," and the "end" is to have the power to do what you want. And Obama wants NO restrictions of any kind on any abortions.

Yeah, you did.


I'm not sure that is true. I know that Dr. Harley counsels them.


Please show me where one poster said that.

No, I didn't. You can infer what you want, but I did not question his integrity.


"I don't like that McCain had an affair and divorced his 1st wife.

I do like the fact that his marriage to Cindy HAS lasted and they have done wonderful things with children."

I KNOW that FH has stood up for some marriages that have started as affairs. He has, even against strong objections from some posters (including me) offered them help and guidance.

AGG, FH did not say McCain's 2nd marriage was ok b/c " he's happily married".

I have never seen FH spout the "if it feels good/if you are happy then it's ok" philosophy.

I just received an email from a Republican friend with a cartoon picture of Obama and the words: half honkey full donkey.

Almost as disturbing as the one another Republican friend sent me of a caricature of Obama as a monkey. There may be some of McCain, but no one has included me in any mass mailing of them.

It upsets me that this election, the one that my D18 will be voting in for the first time, has to be so nasty and disrespectful - on both sides. What a way to learn the process.

isn't this the 2nd time you talked about emails from your friends?

Two thoughts.....get better friends and set better boundaries.

I have received ZERO emails like this.

Cat, as noted to you two months ago.