Hi Langaan,

Honesty is not a LB. Her anger will subside and you guys will survive it, but you won't survive an ongoing affair.

Perhaps wait until you have more information before confronting her.

Are you from Germany originally?

GH31

no, we are both canadians, always have been.

The om is in germany, they had met during when she was down for a vacation/wedding in dominican republic in 2006.

She is checking her yahoo messenger/email several times a day. Infact, from the looks of my info from keylogger, she logs into yahoo in the morning after I leave, and logs out about an hour before i get home.

just more proof she is hiding it.

I wonder,
its been over 2 weeks since last contact, what's stopping her from just sending him another email?

my opinion is that she feels she may be "bugging" him. I remember in the text messages i found, she made mention of soething like that "I hope Im not bugging you"

casino again last night, 4 nights in a row.

oh, i dont know if this means anything,,,
but, when she was in the dominican, she was with a bunch of family including her sister/mother.

her sister, who had a bf at the time, also met a guy down there (from scotland?).
Ironically, her bf ended up catching her in an email fling as well after the trip and they ended up breaking up.

the relationship between her sister and the scottish guy dwindled away from my understanding.

at any rate, this same guy befriended my wife on facebook yesterday.

Im not too concerned except for the fact that this guy obviously is interested in overseas flings just like the german guy.

and yes, before you ask, my wife does seem to be somewhat Jealous of her sister and the life she lives.... single, young, attractive, fun.

I think your wife has found a new means of contact.
I think they've changed from email to maybe phone contact.
By this time she would have approached him again...

Are you able to monitor phone calls?

Her behavior is definitely questionable. So now she is pursuing her sisters old flame from scotland? Did I read that right?

Keep survellience going....

Overall....besides the emails how is your relationship with your wife? Affection, friendship, and sexlife etc?? Can you put up with this email exchange/relationship if the rest of your life with her is good. If it is not good....then how much longer can you last??

I am unable to monitor phonecalls, but i dont htink that owuld help anyway. the om speaks german, my wife does not

and even text messages I will find out because she needs to translate his messages on her computer, and i have the keylogger on it.
i guess i cant be positive, but I am wuite sure there has been no contact since oct 23rd, but she certainly didnt make the choice. He simply hasnt replied in a while.


life outside of this is good, sexlife good, affection ok, etc...
thats onesided though

as far as whether or not i can accept this and move on, i dont know, honestly.


oh, and no i dont think theres anything to the scottish guy....

Lan,

I noticed in your first your first post above that your wife is a diagnosed bi-polar.

It's been 2.5 years since she you caught her last time so is it possible she's cycling.

(I ask because my FIL was bi-polar and cycled horrendously ever three years, give or take a few months)

Is she properly medicated and, if so, is she being properly monitored?

MANIA FEELS GREAT to them...so when it's time to cycle...they will break through their meds, stop taking their meds or whatever...

I presume you've read up on the subject extensively.


If you choose to remain married to a bi-polar, you've got to be VERY firm. Your boundaries need to be solid and you really need to have MANY things under your control BEFORE a manic episode as it's impossible to get cooperation DURING an episode.


Maybe you already know much of this...so I'll just flip this back to you. Sorry to see you back here.

Mr. Wondering

No, she chose to go off meds earlier this year.


seperation looks like the only way she will realize the consequences.

No, she chose to go off meds earlier this year.

Of course she did. The meds were tolerable when they offset the depression but as soon as the first drops of mania kick in...they feel great and don't need the meds any longer. If you end up saving this...MEDS have to become a boundary....no meds...no you.

seperation looks like the only way she will realize the consequences.

She won't understand consequences to much if she is indeed cycling right now.

There is also the notion that you married this woman "in sickness and in health". I know my MIL stayed with my FIL far too long...but she honored her committment, despite tremendous self-sacrifice for many years. Eventually, she DID divorce FIL (with my assistance as an attorney), however, she did so ONLY because in Georgia she couldn't kick him out of HER house completely if they were married. The police were less than responsive because VERBAL and MENTAL abuse ISN'T treated the same as PHYSICAL abuse. Once he cycled down...she took FIL back into her home. 3 years later...he cycled again...she threw him out and he died at age 60 in a casino in Mississippi.

It's a catch 22...honor your commitment at a huge cost to yourself OR stay and look after a woman that WILL, medicated or not, likely never "get it" and if unmedicated, will surely cheat on you again (it's simply a symptom of the illness).

There ARE ways to live with bi-polars...but it takes a lot of strength and firm boundaries. For example,

1. Don't hide a keylogger ...if she wants access to a computer in your marital home...a keylogger is going to be there and KNOWN to her. Otherwise...remove the computer, the cable, the telephone...whatever.

2. She is not to have access to family finances. No Joint accounts or credit cards. You must be trusted to protect yourself AND HER from her grandiose spending & frittering away of money.

3. She stays on medications and if YOU think she needs an adjustment to such meds...she MUST see the doctor (with you) and comply. Her opinion on the matter is not relevant as the mania CREATES a bias of "feeling great".

I don't envy your position at all but appeasement will NEVER bring you happiness or even contentment with a bi-polar. I KNOW how mean and angry they can get when confronted. I've had to stand up PHYSICALLY to my FIL several times...they are UNSTOPPABLE when they get into a certain confrontational omnipotent line of thinking. But you must confront this. (however...the boundaries likely won't be able to be put into place until she hits rock bottom and cycles out of mania...thus...distancing yourself MAY be your only alternative at this time...until she's medicated)

If you've never actually LEFT consider that boundaries such as suggested above MAY be more enforceable in the future IF she sees you are serious. The only time my FIL actually took medication for several years was AFTER my MIL finally divorced him and made him live elsewhere. Only THEN was it important enough for him to take the meds they'd been begging him to take for 30 years.

Mr. Wondering

Wow, great post Mr. W.

I think you're right on all accounts Mr.W.

I think I'm going to wait until I've got proof that even she can't argue. The emails she has sent to him in her mind are arguably "harmless". I DO NOT agree with this in anyway, but the truth of the matter is that if there is room in her mind to claim the situation is harmless, she will burn it into her brain and fiht to the end.

I am going to wait until I have such proof, then confront her with the intention of discussing separation.

there has only been 1 email sent to OM since my last post (he has still not responded for cpl weeks).

She sent him an email yesterday ...

Hi thought you might enjoy these few pictures of me from Halloween, hope all is well with you. Where did you decide to go on your holiday? If you came to Canada hope it was a great visit. It is a beautiful country. You will have to let me know where you went and what you seen. So here are some pictures take care. Hope to hear from you soon.

Now, on Halloween we both dressed up with the kids. She dressed up as a "sexy devil". When she first put it on I grabbed the camera. For fun I asked her to do some sexy poses for me and I took a few pictures. Those are the pictures she sent to him in the above email.
She did NOT send pictures of me our our children.
She DID send pictures of her posing in a sexy devil outfit that were taken by her husband.

Again, its like being kicked in the teeth.

I talk to my brother about my situation all the time. He thinks I should have kicked her to the curb a long time ago... Even yesterday on the phone, after telling him about the pictures, he told me to hold on for a second and told me to listen as he had a converstaion with someone who was in his office.

He said to this person..
" if your spouse sent an email to some person he/she met on vacation, and this email included pictures of your spouse posing that YOU took of him/her, would you be upset?"

the other person laughed.

Now I know all this, I realize its obvious, I am not neive, but I am still here putting up with it.

I do not beleive it will ever be the marriage I want, or even one that is acceptable and can keep me reasonably happy anymore.

And lately I've started having thoughts such as "what IF?"

what if I was with someone else? do all marraiges have problems this bad?
What am I missing?

Sometimes I think that If I left and met some other women who was not that special, just an average decent person, could probably make me happier, alot happier.

Then I think of the kids. What about custody... do I want full custody? is 50% even healthy... no because we wouldnt live in the same town, so school would be an issue..

soo, what about if I have them during holidays and most of the summer? or visa versa?

am I financially ruined if I lose my house, child support etc...?
is she going to turn nasty during a divorce?

and last but not least, if we separate she will surely want to move near her mother, which is 8 hrs away and in the next province. Do I really want to fight that?

What if she accepts the separation and wants me to help her out over and above child support? Do I Help her and make the transition "easy for her", or do I hold back and let her suffer the consequences.

Its like I WANT her to send him an email that is without any doubt inappropriate so I can finally get this off my chest.

And one last thing...
is it possible, really possible, that she actually doesnt realize what she is doing is as bad as it really is?

How long are you going to tolerate this crap?

You obviously want to work things out.

Why don't you send her packing and show her you mean no contact?

Don't threaten it, do it. Make her come back seeking forgiveness.

she needed $500 from me the other night to cover some bills and was to pay me back in 1 week.

she went to casino , lost it all, borrwoed $450 more from someone else (her mom i think), went to casino again, lost it all.



confronting tonight, right before i take off for 3 days (work).

oh, and we talked about her gambling etc...
even after i told her that it obviously effects us all seeing as how she is so irritable with the kids, she still said "I dont want to be medicated"

so tonight she will have to chose.

Your W is a gambler.

Don't give her money - that's like giving an alcoholic a drink to hold.

She has bills that need to be paid? If you want to assist, pay them directly, rather than through her.

You are not alone langaan. I swear I could have written this myself. Did you have the confrontation? How did it go?

confrontation didn't happen.


somethings holding me back, I think its still that need to have unarguable proof before I confront.

with that said, i had to send my 9yr son upstairs yesterday because of one of her rampages (yelling at him non-stop)...

this was 20 minutes after i had a little talk to him and told him that "you know how sometimes mom yells alot and gets real angry, its not your fault"

How does Canada's medical coverage cover mental illness?

Here are some absolutes truths for you. I have 42 years expereince with a sibling with severe BPMD:

Yes, in a divorce she will get very, very nasty. You will become satan incarnate. Anyone who trys to stop a mania faze is the devil to them.
They will stop at nothing, NOTHING to continue the "feel good faze". Depending on how severe your wifes BPMD is-- you must understand you will become the sole focus and brunt of her anguish.

They take a grain of truth (like you spanked a kid) into a tidalwave of lies (you abused that child until near death!) The worst problem is -- that in a manic faze >sp? THEY BELIEVE THESE STORIES. They convince themselves that these tales are the truth-- and they believe them forever. No one, even eye whitnesses- can convince them otherwise.

You need to prepare yourself, the advice of protecting your money, and try to get a health care physcian to document the medication. Taken and not taken. Speak to an attorney about your options now. You do not have to divorce her-- but you must think of yourself.

I hope your wife is not at a level that my sibling is. There is no single way a manic acts. Some are slight, some are disabled for life.

You seem like a concerned father and a good person. MB does not work in cases of abuse or addiction or severe mental illness.
Sorry for the spelling, I'm typing fast.

I hear you. I just posted my story yesterday (under "Can some people just not change?" if you're interested) and everyone who is responding feels like I should get him out now. But although we've been through all this before I feel like this is the first time I'm really being proactive. This is the first time I've given him distinct boundaries and this is the first time I've put everything I have into meeting his needs and giving him no reason to stray (not that there's a justifiable one anyway). I still feel that it is inevitable, but I have to give it everything I've got before I walk out and I have to have evidence that there is no way for him to argue his way out of.

barbie, how long did you fight for your marriage? was there ever any light at the end of the tunnel?


h-choc,
i feel for you. the situation sucks. Is there any mental ilness in your situations ?

Not that I know of. I think he's just a turd.

well im not going to waste my time confronting her.

Ive confronted enough in the past for this thing with OM and the gambling, kids etc... and I'm still here.

I'm making an appointment with a lawyer for hopefully tommorrow.

any advice on what I should be asking?