Thanks for the support CL,

The 'addictiveness' of an affair (or to anything else!) is just mind-bogggling to me.

... WS's 'fantasy' has had MAJOR reality hits..... but trying to HOLD ON to the fantasy seems to still be the better option!

...then facing the fact that the affair has cost them both sooooo much LOSS...it's best NOT TO...as long as they are prepared to continue lying to themselves :RollieEyes:...which I think over time becomes quite DEMANDING...and probably why A don't last!


...I think I will join you....LOL! Although it's getting COOLER these days in my part of the world...

Luna

You're sounding strong Luna.. even in the midst of this hiccup you describe as falling off the wagon.

I think it's natural in times like these where we examine our lives.

I had a father much like yours.. and apparently many others here. He was never good at showing affection.. demanded a lot out of us.. but was a solid provider, and a man of character and decency..

I couldn't stand him most of the time as a kid.. and even though he died when I was 16, the man has become a lot smarter after I hit my mid 20's.

I think it may go back to love languages.. being demanding.. having high expectations of me was one of the ways my dad showed me his love.. pushing me to be the best I could be.. while infuriating at the time.. was one of his ways of telling me he loved me and wanted only the best for.. and from me. He also was the consumate 'provider'.. and while we never got everything we wanted.. we never went without anything that we needed.

As a father myself now.. I'm glad that I'm able to hold high expectations, but have learned how to hold them and be compassionate at the same time.. how to guide my children rather than push them.. how to not be afraid to watch my kids make mistakes and pick themselves up and learn from them... I'm glad that I know how to provide for my family.. and make sure that they never go without what they need..

In many ways I wish I were more like my dad... and in some ways I know I'm too much like him.

I think we can all probably say that in some form about our parents though.

I am truly sorry you are going through this tough time Luna.. but we're here for you, and we've got nothin but love for ya.

Thanks for your post James,



...I find that these are WORTHY and HONOURABLE objectives, which I certainly share with you as a parent...even though at times I may not be as successful as I would like to be, but as long as the intentions remain the same... hopefully, we get better with each try!

... I also want to extend them to include myself and others...and yes, even WS (...by not protecting him from the consequences of his choices!)

...as I also believe that life is a process...and that there is a lesson to learn in ALL our experiences...happy or painful... (although...personally...I could have done without the challenges of this one :RollieEyes:)

I am not as familiar with your situation as I would like to be, but I do want you to know that I find your presence and input here, as a person, man and dad, to be a ray of light and hope for myself and many others here.

Take care, James.

Hi Luna,

Just checking in to see how you are doing. Hope all is well.

Hi CL,

Thanks for dropping by and checking up on me.

Just trying to survive here...

With the past weekend spent travelling or spent accompanying my mom to visit dad at the hospital, and being on another type of emotional rollercoaster, I am feeling...TIRED!

But it's a good 'fatique'...I was happy to be there for my mom and dad... saw a lot of people I hadn't see for awhile.... actually, I found they have a good support network between family and friends! ...so, that's reassuring...

the fact of the matter is, that it's me not having any family where I live....but then been here for over 25 years!

...I have a few 'friends' that I consider LIKE family!

I see some info. has 'filtered' through your Plan B!

Your WS is in town? Maybe OP out of the picture? ... be ready for some 'triggering' because of it... :RollieEyes:

Hi Luna,

Glad your parents seem to be doing OK. It's good that they have a support network to help them.

Did you move where you are because of WH? Just wondered why you have no family there. How about his family? Do you still remain in contact with them?

Yes, a little info filtered through. I don't think OP would move here because she has a large family where she is. And I don't think WH would have gotten a permanent place here if they were serious. Since his HQ is here, it may be that he can't travel anymore due to the heart attack and is working at HQ. I think that if he were with OP he could have gotten a job in her town. I don't know Luna. I just shouldn't think about it. For me even to consider R, it would have to be a serious attempt on his part which I don't think will happen. He wasn't willing to do the work before, and he hasn't changed, so it is just easier for him to move on to someone else. And that's OK. I don't want a M with someone who isn't really in it.

I know that you still hold out hope, but at what point do you let it go? Who knows? All I know is that you have put up about the best fight I've seen along with SD. You and SD both can go about your lives with no regrets whatsoever. I admire you both for fighting until the end.

Hi CL,


Yep...it's WS's hometurf :RollieEyes:... but the boys were also born here and I like my work, and over time I now have a circle of clsoe friends (slightly reduced now) whose company I enjoy....

I had a good relationship with most of WS's family...all were very surprised and disappointed by WS's choices and behaviour...and have been put in a very difficult position...

I did keep in touch with one of WS's brother: he WAS a lawyer (passed away last Fall!) who I miss a lot... I could count on him and trusted his advice. He was very sadden by WSs choices, the destruction of our little family, and particularly the impact on the boys...his advice to me?... not to make any MAJOR decisions when emotions were HIGH...and to NOT agree to anything under pressure, or that I did not want...

...and I am also in touch with one of his sisters, a psychologist (who divorced alcoholic husband)... who is very very helpful and supportive and on whom I can count on and call OFTEN! ...she keeps me informed about how the rest of the family is doing.



I agree, CL.... you should NOT think about it UNTIL WS gives you a clear indication (ACTION) that he is willing and AWARE of what needs to happen... M RECOVERY is hard, and I believe you already had what you consider a false recovery.

I am sure it was easier NOT to think about it when he was FAR AWAY and there was an OP in the picture.... so it will be a bigger challenge for you to STAY DARK... maybe it's important NOW to make it clear to DD (and 'common' friends) that you DO NOT want to know anything about WS!...you have enough TRIGGERS to deal with as it is already... :crosseyedcrazy:

..he knows where you live, right?


S/WS, inspite of the obvious, has not yet TOTALLY disconnected... although, yes, his attempts are limited to 'cake-eating' and wanting to limit me to the 'mother role', I have continually REFUSED it, and I have been consist in my message... and until Plan D is finalized...personal recovery is keeping me busy (as I learn that one can still actually thrive even IF all needs are not met! :RollieEyes:)

Once Plan D has gone through...I will REVISIT my position...as I WOULD like to be in a relationship...I would like it to be with the father of my boys, but if that's not possible and if it's not something that WS is willing to committ to, I will work on learning to trust again, love again, and find someone that is willing to reciprocate....because LIFE IS TOO SHORT to not make the EFFORT to enjoy it!

...and yes...with that...I will NOT have any regrets... as I have communicated to WS without a doubt, inspite of his choices and behaviour, I am WILLING to committ to M recovery....is HE? ...and no matter what he SAYS...I will not budge... the first serious REAL indication NEEDS TO BE.... N/C with OP!

(...and yes, sometimes I do feel like a broken record... )

Besides being 'for the record', below is a post of mine from another thread: the 80-20 thread.

I think I may be on to something about some of the malaise I am facing while in Plan D that I will need to work on... but I am just too tired to THINK about it TODAY!

...if any of you have thoughts on it, please chime in.



....a quick though on re-reading my post:

FEAR:

Pre-Plan D: BS interested/available, WS NOT interested/not available
Post-Plan D: BS NOT interested/not available, WS interested/available

....and that would be a real shame!

well let's open it up to the other possibilities -

Pre-Plan D OR Post-Plan D:

BS interested, WS interested (NC with OP)
-or-
BS NOT interested/not available, WS NOT interested/not available

...looks like it would be fine if BS&WS are on the SAME PAGE

...I wish it were that simple

I can't quite put my finger on it (and usually I have to wait until I have 'figured it out' before coming out with it)

...but I am STRUGGLING today...and I can't think of any particular reason why I should be....

...I have received no earth-shattering news....
...in many ways, on the surface, it's a very REGULAR DAY...

...and yet, I FEEL major turmoil INSIDE....

What's up with that?

I am trying to see if latest with WS may have anything to do with it (as planned, while I was not in the house, WS came to take care of branches from trees in the yard that needed to be taken care of for tenants)....it's not any bigger a deal than when he drops off/picks up D12 at the house???

I looked to see if there were any anniversaries....last year at around this time....OP moved in apt. just above WS (although I suspect she doesn't spend a lot of time in HER apt!)... but that's been going on for over a year!

Is it the season....it's getting colder around here...and winter is usually long... but nothing new there!

Am I just TIRED of my situation OVERALL?? Maybe...
Wish I was somewhere else... Yeah...
Wish I could have answers to some of my questions...Yeah, so?

Do I want things to be moving QUICKER? Not necessarily as I have a lot on my plate as it is!

Life...as a great BIG UNKNOWN...is getting to me, I think... :RollieEyes:

I am going home...cook supper...and see how I feel AFTER that...

My prayers and heart is with you.

. You are always so strong. I totally get this.

Some days it's just the wave.

Luna,

I think we are all at a point of driving ourselves nuts with this. We analyze and anzlyze until the cows come home, and still we have no answers.

There are a million scenarios that we can play out in our heads, but what it boils down to is the reality that sits in front of us. In my case, my WH does not want to be M and it doesn't matter that I'm willing to R or not. The question for me is how long am I going to go before I accept this and go to the next step. I won't until I'm emotionally ready (I'm close) and I can't do anything to rush it. I have to believe that I met some of his needs or he wouldn't have stayed 35 years. Maybe OP is meeting 100% of them, or maybe not. Maybe she is meeting the most important ones and he doesn't care about the rest which were probably the ones that I met. Heck, with a grown daughter, he doesn't need FC anymore. Op doesn't even need to provide that one. It's the only need that I could provide that she can't. I guess in that case, there is no need for this M if she can provide everything else. End of story.

In your case, you want your family to be together, but your WH is still choosing to stay with the OP. You can provide FC, but it seems that is not high on your WH's list. Perhaps OP is providing everything else thus giving him 90-100%.

How long are you willing to put your life in "hold" mode? Again, you will do something when the time becomes right for you.

I'm not even sure what point I'm trying to make here except that not all A's end and not all WS's want to be M to their pre-A spouse. Sometimes it just boils down to they don't love us and don't want to be M to us anymore. IF the A ends, they move on to something else. The BS just sometimes has no control over it whatsoever.

Hey, Luna

Sorry to hear you're in a down patch.

CL is right. We talk a lot about what Plan B is or isn't, but at its most basic form, Plan B is waiting for the affair to end. If the affair ends, you might get a shot to recover your marriage. If the affair doesn't end, you don't.

The affairs haven't ended for us. How long are we willing to wait for that to happen?

I can't think of any of the Killer Bees who had their plan B end the way they originally wanted it to. There are a few who moved on fairly quickly to what I suspect are better lives. FightingBack figured out fairly quickly that she didn't want her spouse back. InHisCare is another one--I suspect she's much happier now than she was before. LilSis is. And then there are a bunch who are on the road to a better place.

You've been doing this long enough that you can stop whenever you want, and no one can possibly blame you. You can Let Go any time. You just need to see that the place you're going to is better than where you are now and then decide that you are ready to go there.

I'm sure you've done this before, but maybe not for a while. Try imagining that your WH is never coming home. Maybe that he's dead, or he's quarantined with some illness, or he's on another planet, or whatever--he's GONE to you. Now. What are you going to do with the rest of your life?

Imagine the possibilities, because there are lots of them.

Are you ready to start doing any of those?

Luna

Queenie, CL and SD,

Thanks for your thoughts.

You seemed to have picked up on the fact, as I have for while now, that when I go 'analytical'....it's MY WAY of avoiding feeling 'something'...IF so, what is it?

...I needed to look in my heart.

...it seems to be continually linked to my belief of having somehow FAILED my boys in my role as a parent...

...even though it's WS, given his choices, sending out the message that they are NOT enough of a priority to make an effort to provide them with a family

...this in turn, seems to make me want to HOLD ON to the possibility of M recovery (even in the face of the obvious!)....

Now, DS17 plays hockey. I try to never miss his matches. One of his best friends' parents just separated...and the dad was there. I really don't know the details of their separation... but what it did do, is remind me of HOW MUCH a separation changes the path for kids.

...so the depth of the pain I feel is often related to HOW MUCH I so love my boys... and that I would be prepared to risk MORE pain, if need be, to give them another shot at a...family!

...so while having supper tonight... I thought of checking with DS17 how he felt about the separation... of not being able to see a lot of his dad when he decided he could no longer take the 'back and forth'... all sorts of things... (trying really hard to not 'set him up' to want to tell me what I wanted to hear - I know how much kids want to please the parents!)

It wasn't a long conversation (lest we forget...DS is 17 going on 18!), and even though I have many concerns about him.... it made me realize how much he has grown, a young man full of life, with some clear goals (not necessarily the most reassuring for a parent!)...but nonetheless... I was in awe of how comfortable he was at sharing with me his dreams (I knowing full well the bumps he will face along the way, but keeping them to myself as best as I could)...that should he want a R with with his dad and want to see him..he would! In no uncertain terms, inspite of some of our differences, he does regret choosing to stay with me.

And I realize that what I can DO, the best gift I can GIVE him and his brother, is just try to be there for them, the best way I can, allow them and help them pursue THEIR dreams...as best as they can....

I also think that the DESIRE to want to give a FAMILY to my boys will always be there.... I need to learn to MANAGE doing without it....


Thanks SD...you're so sweet. Yes, I know. This IS the mindsent I NEED to adopt to get me out of this HOLE.... and also focus on and appreciate what I DO have.

Knowing full well that even though S is NOT dead, really.... it's going to be like trying to bury someone, yet the body has never be found... the challenge of CLOSURE and LETTING GO is very difficult but not IMPOSSIBLE!

...but honestly....EMOTIONS can be draining! :crosseyedcrazy:

It's multi-faceted, really. You mentioned BR somewhere. She would tell you that TODAY, your spouse is not available to you. Things are not the way you want them. You can either flail against that and make yourself miserable, or accept it and make the most of TODAY. TODAY is what you have before you.

You can choose how to approach TODAY. You can decide that TODAY is the beginning of your life without your WH. You can decide that you will live TODAY as well as you can without closing any doors. Or you can live somewhere in between, knowing that if it results in closed doors, you have done your best.

I think you'll know how to choose--it's your choice. On your timetable. I find, however, that there is power and/or solace in recognizing that you have some choices.

You're right. The emotions are draining. Have you gotten angry yet? I find that as I give up more and more bits of hope, anger that I was banking in lieu of recovery gets realized. I wonder if you have that coming. Maybe it's only a guy thing.

Luna

Hi SD,

Yes...my focusing on TODAY...so far...seems to be what gets me out of the HOLES I dig myself into....it's BR's legacy (thank G-d!)...that, and my sense of responsibility! Grrr....


I know...I keep up with your thread...sounds about right...I suspect one can only hold back the TAKER with feeding it HOPE for so long! ...not much return on investment...so, TAKER not such a happy camper! ...another good reason the stay as DARK as possible...trying to figure out what's UNDERNEATH the anger, SD!

Thanks for being there, Guys... don't really have anywhere else to turn to for some understanding... as I can't believe it MYSELF sometimes how much I still can 'turn in circles'... :RollieEyes:

I am OFF appreciating what I have....as I do have a lot to be thankful for...and hopefully a good night sleep...I could really use it!

Update.

Goodness gracious!

...I eventually DID manage to fall asleep....after tossing and turning for awhile

So...I survived...YESTERDAY!

Today is another day....a little bit tired... but MUCH MUCH better than yesterday.

One good thing to hang on to....KNOW that change is inevitable... for better or for worse...and yesterday...I was counting on IT!

Morning Luna,

I see you on are and want to say hi and check in with how you are doing.

I know how tired this all can be and always am glad when the day ends and you wake up to a new one.

Surviving is AWESOME... and sometimes all we can do....

Hi Queenie,

I think I missed you! Actually, I leave the site 'open' and catch up when I can... here and there.

With moving forward with Plan D, I realize that one of the obstacles I have is wrapping my mind around the fact that if I buy-out WS on the building where I live (we have some tenants), I have a big issue seeing myself being sole owner of it (WS handled all maintenance...so I don't know the cost of replacing what he did with hired help...not sure if I can swing it, financially). I know...I could try...and if it doesn't work out or I don't think I can handle it....I can always...SELL.

So I have decided to think one step ahead, and if I NEEDED to sell...what would I do, where would I go, what would it cost, etc.

I am hoping going through this process will help me feel better, or lessen the sense of burden I feel, if I can see it from a prospective of it being.... A CHOICE...and cross other bridges when I get there.

My brother has confirmed that Dad has been moved to a palliative unit at the hospital, and is having trouble facing the obvious. I suggested he see if there was some 'support' provided for patients and families of the unit.

Trying to go back to focusing on ONE DAY AT A TIME. Tonight DS17 has a game...I will go and enjoy seeing him play.

I am feeling tired, having a bit of trouble sleeping, upset stomach (I threw up my lunch and dinner yesterday literally! ...sorry for the visual!)

...so I know all this makes me more 'vulnerable'....trying hard to minimize what I have 'on my plate' as much as I can...

Just daydreaming: would like to stop the world....momentarily hop off, take a rest, and get back on when ready!

How about "If I did sell, what would that let me do?"

Hi SD,


...yea, I know...lots probably. I just don't want to do it too quickly, or out of 'fear'...

It would take a big load off my shoulders...and it's probably what I will end up doing eventually....but part of it is that I don't think I can take another 'big change' yet....planning a move from the house I've lived in for about 20 years is going to take quite a bit of energy....and I don't think I have what it takes right now.

In the meantime....on paper, I am starting to 'shop around', see how I feel, what are the options... so that when I do DECIDE, I will be INFORMED and can be....READY, SET...GO!??!!