Sen H

Have you noticed a kind of robotic monotony to your posts? Introspection that you manage to do serves only to feed your ego and deride your wife's adequacy to appreciate you?

Your wife likely doesn't withhold anything from you - admiration or otherwise. The problem is because you need unending admiration from external sources, you cannot truly appreciate and admire someone else.

Now if I have managed to truly get your attention, work on this - research treatment for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, because if you don't have it, you have something awfully close to it.

It is not easy to be married to someone who is suffering from a mental illness. Your wife couldn't possibly provide you with sufficient admiration to make a dent in the bottomless pit of low self-esteem you suffer from. I'm so sorry - it can't be easy to be in your skin.

Please focus on getting help, before you make things worse for yourself and her. Eventually you will appreciate that she has stuck with you through this phase of your life - if you get help, focus on your personal recovery and develop an internal locus of control over your need to be appreciated.

Coach yourself. There is a way to overcome mental illness!

Your options A and B leave out my analysys, that my wife and daughter are not aware of their husband's needs for Admiration, and do not realize how easy it would be to imporove their marriages, with a small amount of effort. It does not take much effort to find out a husband's specific desires for Admiration, and to occasionally give recognition.

That is why it is irrelevant whether my wife is relatively happy or unhappy. Either way, people desire more happiness. So a path to my wife's increased happiness through her marriage is to find ways to give Admiration to me.


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For many wives, the understanding of a husband's need for Admiration does not come naturally. A woman's needs for Adrmiation are usually different from a husband's desires for other aspects of Admiration. So often a husband's needs for Admiration are overlooked, and husbands give up asking for Admriation.

Many wives have an opportunity to look for ways to give their husbands more Admiration. Many husbands would appreciate more Admiration, and would respond with increased effort to make the marriage better.

I have not given the MB link to Admiration for some pages now, so I will provide it here again.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_ad.html



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That is why it is irrelevant whether my wife is relatively happy or unhappy. Either way, people desire more happiness. So a path to my wife's increased happiness through her marriage is to find ways to give Admiration to me.

Yes...but does she know this? Being resentful and stubborn won't get you what you want. Your attitude is not conducive to a happy marriage.

For many wives, the understanding of a husband's need for Admiration does not come naturally. A woman's needs for Adrmiation are usually different from a husband's desires for other aspects of Admiration. So often a husband's needs for Admiration are overlooked, and husbands give up asking for Admriation.

Could it be that your wife is showing her admiration for you but in ways that you are simply not reading as admiration?

NPD can be a factor in some husbands needing excessive Admiration.

Search: Nercissistic Personality Disorder

In response to your post, I have posted a number of references and Links under MB Other Web Sites.

Some spouses experiencing an excessive need to be right, by their spouse may be interested in a further understanding of NPD.

Thanks for your idea that is relevant to Admiration.

Sen H - if your comment about excessive need to be right is a poke at my signature line, that's your attempt to deflect, so be it. It's your happiness on the line. Not mine. I have a happy, affectionate and appreciative marriage and I'm offering you a genuine solution to research.

BTW - my signature line is a tongue in cheek saying my husband and I have - it's affectionate. Not meant for you to take it out of context so that you don't have to look at your own issues.

I have lived with one mentally ill person or another my entire life. My mother was frequently suicidal with clear indications of alternating periods of depression and mania. My father was an alcoholic. My husband went through a bout of chemical poisoning from his job that triggered bi-polar symptoms that were at first misdiagnosed. I know what it's like to live with someone who speaks "lucidly" but not logically. Every time I've read one of your threads I've run smack into that kind of dialogue.

I'm genuinely offering you a place to start researching and getting help for YOU. You've always come to Marriage Builders seeking some way to manipulate your wife into changing rather than you seeking to change yourself. You don't get to choose to change her. She's not seeking change, therefore, she will not change just because you do some research on neurolinguistic programming or some other psychological manipulation. But you can work on changing you. That is the only choice you have that will lead you to happiness.

Have you chosen to be happy where you are and with what you have? Have you chosen to be happy with and within yourself?

Link to Narcissistic Personality Disorder information from Mayo Clinic.com




There is no one on earth who can make you happy. You must choose to be happy.

Your analysis is WRONG. Analyze this: If 99 people in a room see one thing, and the 100th person sees something else, what are they most likely (99% chance) looking at? Answer: What the 99 people see.

We see that YOU are the problem and you will not get admiration until you change yourself.

Let me say it again:
Your wife doesn't WANT to give you admiration because of how YOU are, not how she is.

It is human nature to admire a person who gives of himself to you, honestly and lovingly and without expecting anything in return. If you were doing this, she would be showering you with admiration.


That is so ludicrous and self-centered it doesn't even deserve an answer. If you really believe that, I hope your wife gets out of your marriage as fast as she can pack.

Cat - his responses are lucid but not logical. Once you read the Mayo Clinic's description of NPD that Cinderella posted, you'll realize why we can't help this guy.

Sen. H - I'm guessing by your response that this isn't the first time you've heard yourself described as having NPD. I realize that it's risky for you, especially if it is a fact that this is the root cause of your unhappiness with your marriage, to get help and admit that YOU might have a problem. Most NPDs can NEVER do this.

But the only way out is through - please get the help you need because EVERYBODY deserves to be happy. EVERYBODY deserves to have someone care about their happiness. Including your wife. And you do not care about her happiness. Only that she makes you happy and thus, she will be happy. That's not how it works. Her needs are separate and apart from you.

I know I know. You can't hear me. You can't understand what I'm saying because it's going through NPD filters.

Just experiment on it, Sen. H. You don't have to admit it. Just get help for it anyway.

Thank you for answering my question. I'm still unclear though - are you saying that a husband's need for Admiration should be met whether or not it is deserved?

I suppose according to MB, a person doesn't need to "earn" the right to have their ENs met. Folks often don't place the need for Admiration in that category, but maybe that should be considered. Is this what you are saying?

Senator, I think you are making an assumption on two levels:

1. That your wife is either ignorant of how she should give admiration to a man or she is willfully withholding it

2. That if she made you happier, she would be happier.

No one but your wife can answer the first question. Perhaps you should open an conversation with her about it, saying that admiration is important to you and that you are not feeling it from her. Ask her if she can tell you some things that she admires, and if she could try to tell you these these more often, rather than when requested.

The second one is debatable however. People's happiness is self-driven, that is to say based on a person's internal makeup. Some people are happier than others, and generally one person becoming more happy has more to do with their own actions than others. This is why people are telling you to work out your own happiness rather than insisting that someone else provide it for you.

I'm not going to arm-chair psychoanalyze, that's not my job. But I think that you could gain a lot by trying to develop some empathy for your wife's point of view. Perhaps she does admire you but isn't the type to tell you. Many people are like this. But maybe she shows her caring and admiration in other ways, taking care of the children, letting you have time to be online or do other activities, allowing you space to think your own thoughts. Perhaps she thinks these are gifts that you will appreciate.

I don't think you can "coach" a spouse. You can lead by example, by offering her admiration and hope she reciprocates. But if you tell her "You should act more admiring of me", she will probably resist.

I have previously looked at the NPD Narcissistic literature. The line about being right jumped at me from the NPD I Literature I reveiew in annotating the liks I provided. I was not attacking your signature line. NPD can be having to be rfight all the time, and being wrong is a catastrophic problem for some with NPD.

I have at lesat on NP person inside my circl of people I cannot avoid. So those concpets are important to me.

However, anyone who has a differente set of needs than our own needs for Admiration, may be viewed as NPD, mitakenly.



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While I give many opionions and questions when Ipost, I rarely say what someone else SHOULD do. There are a range of other circumstance, whichmight be unknown to me.

Each marriage has its own unique set of compromises and pay-offs. There may be pay offs for a wife not giving admiration to her husband. My wife seemed jealous, whenever I would give our daughter a hug, or a shoulder squeeze, once our daughter became a teenager, so I restrained from giving our daughter Admiration, in a touching manner, because of my perception of my wife's reaction. Maybe I was wrong in what I perceived from my wife. Maybe I should have ignored, and over-ridden my wife's initial feelings of let down.

Couples with children have master manipulators in the house. So how Admiration plays out between the father and mother, may depend upon the family constellation, at that moment.



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Senator, NEVER refrain from showing your child admiration or affection. You can give it to them 20 times a day and it wouldn't be enough. Please don't do that.

So it is your opinion that the person doesn't need to *earn* Admiration, if that is one of their top ENs?

Sort of like a person doesn't need to *earn* Recreational Companionship, for example?

Jayne, I'll pipe up. I think that most of us do things that earn appreciation, which I think is very close to admiration. I do tell my H, my kids, my coworkers, and so on for doing small things. Like at work, when someone is putting coffee on for everybody, the other people who come in to get coffee and see it's already brewing will say Thanks! Smells great! I notice most people do this.

Which is why I think his wife is not happy with him. She doesn't WANT to say thanks or make him feel good, because SHE doesn't feel good. Pretty simple to me.

Also an assumption...

It's possible that his wife just doesn't naturally express admiration.

My husband doesn't naturally express physical affection, and as he says, he may never really learn to do it the way I want.

Does that mean *I* don't deserve it? Is it MY FAULT my husband doesn't give me affection?

This is precisely the tone I fine offensive on this thread. It is not automatically Senators fault that his wife can't/doesn't/won't give him the admiration he wants--even if you find his personality difficult as it is coming across on this board.

It's a trap that's too easy too fall into, and one that I've fallen into many many times myself... To assume that the person who isn't getting their needs met either has 1) too high of a need in that area or 2) doing something that makes their spouse not want to meet the need, isn't fair. Those things COULD be true--but how is it helpful to beat that suggestive drum over and over and over again? You're not necessarily right.

It may be possible (as I said) that Sen is getting in the way, and not really hearing his wife about what she wants. It's also possible she may never want to meet that need, no matter what. It's further possible that she is having an affair--which seemed implied several times.

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Senator, do you actually think your wife is having an affair? If so, how seriously do you believe it, and what evidence do you have?

PS.

When he feels challenged by the fact that he can't/won't/doesn't meet my need for affection, my husband will blame me for it--even though the sun, moon, and stars have to be aligned for him to give it to me.

I'd say that's more a problem with him then me, but based on what people are saying here--I guess I have to walk away thinking "it's my fault my husband won't be physically affectionate."

Is that the message of MB?

If so, then I'm in the wrong place.

Your points are all valid, Telly. With a regular poster, I would agree and would not have pushed so hard. But even you have to see that Senator is not dealing with the issue in a standard, straightforward way - a way that would enable him to seek out various solutions. He has steadfastly refused to consider any alternatives besides getting his wife to pour more admiration on him. We have tried to show a wide variety of ways to look at his situation to see whether he can do anything to receive that admiration, and all he keeps coming back with is 'she doesn't show me enough.'

Of course, we don't have both sides here; we have asked and asked and asked what his life is like and he gives no answers. Finally at this point, he is saying it's bad enough that he may be considering an affair to get his admiration.

That doesn't sound like a healthy environment. Something in that relationship needs to be readdressed, but I doubt it is a Leave it to Beaver household where she's simply forgetting to give him kisses.