Well, I came back on here to tell you what the solicitor said and now I'm blushing. I deny all accusations by that sister of mine!!! (Well, all right, I'll admit to being a decent cook especially for large numbers - and I'm banking on my WH having a sweet tooth! Why, oh why aren't desserts one of Dr Harley's major ENs???)

Anyway, just to say that the solicitor said that taking the children to Ireland is not a legal problem because we are not separated, divorced or anything and schooling is OK too because WH agreed to schooling them there last Feb for 3 weeks. However, I think that would make him too angry if I take his children away from him. Plan B is meant to black-out on me, not for the children. On the other side, there is no legal means of making him leave the house.

I'm thinking I'll stick with Plan B of sharing the children but asking him to leave the house. If he won't go then I'll rent something. And if it really gets bad, then at least I know Ireland is an option. Got to run now but MIL is great and I think everyone will back me up when I go to Plan B.
Got to run but I'll try to post later. And Mindshare, yes, I would like to help other people in my postion later if I can but let's see if I succeed myself so that my advice is worth something.

Meggy, I haven't had a chance to go through your comments in detail but 'longwinded' is another fault of mine. I think he'll understand the first paragraph well because I am a committed environmentalist. Your comment about the demands made me think that the solictor thought that I was being too demanding asking for 'true remorse'. He said one sorry should be enough and then move on. Easy for him to say! But I will read your amendments and come back with a new version.

Thank you, all you great people.

It's a start tully. When I kicked FWH out he still had time with the children but it still made an impression on him that should we divorce the time with his children was going to be scheduled. You can always go darker if need be since you have backup plans. You are doing great.


Oy another one lost in the fog.

Great progress! It's fabulous to know that you have Ireland as a safe place should things get too awful where you are.

It's also good to know you can't legally make WH leave the marital home. In light of that, I think if I were in your shoes, I'd ask WH to move out within a week when I delivered the Plan B letter. I'd have a place for me and the kids to stay for two weeks and I'd go there immediately. Plan B loses its impact if he has the letter and can beg and plead and "oh baby baby" you. If he doesn't vacate the home at the end of the week you can rent a place for you and the kids. I wouldn't even tell him where I was living unless he asked (via the moderator, of course!).


And THAT, my dear Tully, is why he is a soliictor and not a successful marriage counselor :RollieEyes:

Thanks BR and turtlehead. Here's the revised version of the Plan B letter. My idea is to pick up the children from school on Friday and go away for the weekend to give him time to pack and sort out accommodation. I will ask GF to check out the house on Sunday evening and if he is still there then I will stay with other friends that night and while the children are at school on Monday I will get other accommodation. My family has offered me money if I need it.

Only a week to go, I'm getting nervous. I hope this works.

I fear this too. I think I mean a lot to WH and he will miss me a lot but he is also very stubborn and very good at suppressing feelings and getting on with life. I don't think it's a good way to be but it's how he is, I've always known that. As I get closer to the date I am more and more nervous. During our discussion the other night I said that I couldn't take this any more and I wanted him to leave. He more or less said 'don't put me out, I'll go to her'. He said it in more of a scared 'I'm not in control' sort-of way rather than a threatening kind of way. And then later he denied that he said quite that saying that he's not an addict. He twists things and agrees to something one day and then changes completely another day so that I have no idea where I stand with him.

A big part of the problem I have is that he wavers and changes so much in his opinions, thoughts and interpretations these days that I have no confidence in the future with him. I am 42 with four children, living in a foreign country and not working. I have no pension and I feel that if he could walk out on me when things were not so bad, what might happen if something bad does happen. I can't live with this doubt. If I want to create a more stable life for myself then now is the time to do it. I'm not particularly worried about being alone. I have family, friends, the children and I could get a dog. And sex isn't that hard to find. I'm not talking myself into a divorce, it's just that I can't build a life on moving sands.

I think you're leaving for the wedding today, aren't you? Please take our best wishes to your sister and her H.

If I can shove some advice in where it was not asked: I think it's fine for you to talk to H about his feelings and intentions, but don't try to educate him while doing so. Don't tell him that he is addicted to OW, for example.

If you can convey that you need to see a different H if you are to stay in the marriage, that would be good. YOU should be the one choosing, and he should be made to realise that he is in no position to mope, show scorn to you or dither about what he wants.

The betrayed husbands on these forums often tell each other that what worked for them was telling the WW to make a choice that minute ( D minute): commit to the marriage, with no sign of doubt or withdrawal, or leave. Krazy71 and MyRevelation say that their refusal to put up with any doubts or lingering contact from their WWs made the affair end then and there, with absolute contrition shown by their wives from that moment on.

I think that some butt kicking does the world of good. In a loving, Plan A sort of way, of course.

Enjoy the wedding.

Thanks Sugar, I did a final check before leaving for the airport. I am so fed-up with WH by now. I hope I'm not leaving Plan B too late. I've been telling him what I need for ages and trying to get him see things s

Tully, you are getting really strong. It's coming through loud and clear, that you hold yourself of such value that you would rather be alone than settle for an uncommitted marriage.

With the added irony of knowing that such a level of strength is your best chance of having that committed marriage.

Also, it's great to hear that Ireland is an option.

Carry on the fight; you're doing great.

Tully,

I agree with Neak that you are getting stronger and stronger as an individual but I fear that what that ultimately means is you are pulling away. I'm hearing alot more angst towards WH in your latest postings. Lord knows it is deserved but I'm fearing that your LB is getting in the red. Please remember the one thing that I have been warning you about in my postings. Don't let what happened to me happen to you. It's really sounding more and more like you need to get this Plan B going soon!!! Your WH's attitutude toward you and the overall sitch is making massive withdrawals from your LB. In my opinion, you are dangerously close to the where I ended up. I hope that I am wrong!!!

I like your revised Plan B letter much better. Do not waver about going into Plan B!! I know it is nerve wracking and scary as h@ll but it just may be the only way to save your family at this point! WH is showing no signs of stepping up to the plate so he needs a serious whack to his current reality to hopefully shake him out of his funk. That can be a nice side affect of Plan B although that isn't the intention. In your case it just may play out that way.....

As always, hoping and praying for you Tully!! You are strong!!!

Mindshare

Thanks Neak and Mindshare. I have certainly made progress in my mind in that I am not worried any more about being alone. I'm not saying that it would be easy but I think I would get through it and have a better life afterwards than I have at the moment. Anyway I hope it won't come to that but if it does then so be it.

Update: On Thursday I had the most incredible conversation with WH on the plane going to Ireland. Usually it's me doing most of the talking these days with him contributing very little but on the plane he talked and talked as if it was good for him to get things off his chest. He came out with complete rubbish full of foggy ideas and illogical justifications. It was so bad that I just let him talk and didn't try to argue at all. I've realised that talk is useless and there is no getting through to him. I wouldn't even know where to start telling you the stuff he came out with but essentially he told me that he thinks this NC is a stupid idea for everyone (but of course especially for OW) and that if he was in contact with her then he would never tell me. This is enough for me to go to Plan B with no hesitation even if I have no proof of contact. He also said that he thought that divorce wouldn't be so very bad for the children and mentioned that maybe he should move out. I just mentioned at the end that I wanted our marriage to work but that I wanted a
it to be a loving, honest, positive, passionate marriage. He said 'you see, that's typical you, imposing what you want and your way of doing things, regardless of what I want'. How do you argue with that?

After this conversation I knew that nothing I said would be of any use so since then we have had no discussion whatsoever about us, the A, the future, OW or anything of that sort. We talk banalities and good Plan A stuff. In fact I found the wierd conversation helpful in a funny way because I realise that he is not malicious but completely lost. It's not so bad but I can't help him any longer. He is an adult and has to find the way himself but I am most certainly not interested in a relationship based on dishonesty, lies, concealment and constant anxiety on my part. So it's full steam ahead towards Plan B on Thursday.

MIL asked how things went in Ireland and when I told her about the conversation and how I feel about it, she is pushing me to trust him and believe him. It kind of bugs me that she puts the pressure on me to adjust to him rather than the other way round but I'm going with this with or without her support. (I didn't mention Plan B to her yet in case she tells him.)

That said, I am still really nervous as I think he will not let it happen easily and the children will suffer. I'm only hoping that this is for the best in the long run. Not everyone will understand that though and may blame me for making everyone suffer in the immediate term. I'm banking on your support to keep me going through this. I know I'm doing the right thing but that doesn't make it easy.

And the MB forums were filled with the deafening sound of applause as Tully earned a standing ovation.

That applause is deafening.


I know the things your WH said to you are a mix of disbelief and hurt but I am so happy to hear that you know that you are strong and worthy of happiness and a commited marriage that you will do what you have to do.

Keeping you in my prayers.

Thanks for the support, guys. I think my MIL is annoyed with me because I won't trust her son. In fact I know she's annoyed. Anyway, could someone help me with the finer details of a Plan B. The colleague I spoke you a few days ago, the one who was at the seminar but couldn't give me any proof of contact, suggested that I speak to another colleague who knows WH well and is an interfering but well-intentioned sort of man. SHe thinks he might be able to speak to WH and get through to him. I think I might do that. I could talk to him over the next day or so and expose to him and ask him to talk to WH once the Plan B is in place. I think WH will need someone to keep him on the straight and narrow and knock sense into him and I'm not sure who else could do that.

Also I know that I'm asking how long is a piece of string but does anyone have any idea of how long a Plan B tends to last? It's really just for planning a bit for the future.
One of my sisters has offered to come over to stay for a while and it might be helpful to have a live-in mediator for a while, not to mention for the support.

I'm going to try and find out if OW is leaving for Ireland soon but I doubt if she has left yet.

Sugar, coming back to telling the kids. I told my eldest the whole story while we were away but not the others. They don't seem too upset but we'll see how that develops once Plan B is in place.

I'm sure I'll be back tomorrow with lots of questions. Hopefully I'll hold tight for the next 3 days.

Dear Tully,

I have read the latest post but won't have time to say much now, but I want to applaud you along with all the others here.

I'm so glad he talked and you were able to find out how his mind is working.

How did your daughter react? Did she seem to understand?

I've made some changes in my Plan B letter. (Lying awake thinking about things) they are in bold. Just wondering if I'm complicating things but I realised from my conversation with WH that he has no idea what I mean by 'effort' and also he claims that there is already NC (I know, I don't believe him but I don't want to keep insisting that I want something he says he's already giving me)

I'll have a busy day today as I have to prepare our bags for the weekend, line up alternative accommodation if necessary, arrange with friends for places to stay for the next week or so, expose a bit more etc. Talk later

Carry on, you're doing good. And you do have excellent proof - if he were not in contact, his head would be pulled out far enough that he would have NO PROBLEM demonstrating to you that he is now being trustworthy. But he isn't trustworthy, so he's not willing to show you anything.

I think it's good to include some of the info from the plane, but probably not quite so much. Short attention span and all, lol.



I moved the details out of your main letter so it doesn't lose focus, and changed a few odds and ends. You need to sound very positive that he's coming back, and no maybes about it. Also, it's not your problem to help him find somewhere to go. No suggestions, no helpfulness that meets his needs - just the door hitting him in the backside.

Thank you Neak. I tried sending you an email to you_neakatyahoodotcom (changing the 'AT' and 'DOT' only) but it's not going through.

Sugar, my eldest took the news well and reacted very well. I used your suggestion of saying that OW wanted to be her dad's wife but he can only have one. SHe said that OW isn't very nice but she trusts me completely to sort out the situation. A little more worry might be a good thing.

Neak, I've read over that letter in detail and it sounds just right to me. So I think I'll go with that unless someone else has something wise and pertinant to add.
I've made arrangements for accommodation on Thursday for me alone and for the girls and me for Friday and Saturday. Still have to sort something out for Sunday just in case he hasn't left the house. Then while they are at school on Monday I can sort something else out.

I'll be back later.

I love the version that Neak posted. It is wonderful!

Tully, this must be scary, despite your newfound resolve.
You absolutely are doing the right thing.

When you have doubts, try to remind yourself that they arise from missing the dream of the marriage that you wish you'd had with WH. They are not because you really miss your current M and WH. Only by sticking to your guns do you have a chance of getting the M you truly desire and deserve.

If he cannot come around to your way of thinking, then he is not a person you really wanted to be yoked to for the rest of your life.

If he does, then THAT will be a marriage well earned and worth having.