I just wanted to thank all of you who responded to my thread and if I weren't such a terrible typist, I would love to do so on an idividual basis, as each of you had very powerful replies that struck me to the core.

After my original thread, I began to reflect what a horrible post to a forum that has helped so many M's that the thought of something less than eutopia would be considered blasphemy.

So many of you have responded with a sort of "yes, I know what you mean." Didn't mean to open a can of worms but they do exist for many after the unspeakable has happened.

I thought my recovery was the "rock" of my salvation, but I did the unthinkable, and flipped the "rock" over to see what lie underneath, only to find worms and critters that I thought would have completely died out by now. Very discouraging to say the least, after six years out.

Now what, move the rock to dryer ground, put the rock on a pedastal(which was my mistake in the first place) or simply ignore whats under it and be thankful you even have a rock in the first place.

Don't know the answer for sure myself, but need to look to the Rock of my faith and the God who stood by me and never left during my less than perfect attempt to "make all things perfect again." Now realizing, I never had that ability in the first place. I WAS TRYING TO PLAY GOD!!!!! Can't be done!

Thus, I will learn from this and come to the grips that we are all human and capable of destroying even the one's we love the most in a period or moment of weakness, if we fail to to protect ourselves from the temptation of sin.

The consequences, however, will always be ours to own and live with for the rest of our lives. God will not protect us from consequences.

All Blessings to all of you,
Jerry

Jerry, what "struck" me in this posting of yours was the TRUTH of YOUR "microcosm" and how it is no different from the the "macrocosm" of the entire human race.

It is NOT, despite the claims to the contrary by many who want "me" to "be" God, within our finite power to "make all things perfect again." Only God has that power. Only God DID what was necessary to afford "recovery" as a possibility to us, to all of us, who have "walked AWAY from Him." And only God WILL (as in "not yet done with us") remake everything and "make it perfect again."

In the "meantime," we who have accepted his PROVISION for us during our time in this current "not perfect" world, are SUPPOSED TO "live by faith" in God, in the saving provision of Jesus Christ, and in the trust in God's faithfulness to ALL of His promises....according to HIS "timetable," not ours.



There IS a difference between "forgiveness" of sins and "consequences" that result from a choice TO sin (willful disobedience to God and what He has said IS our "purpose in life," the life that HE has given each of us).

And even for the "forgiven," we need to remind ourselves that when we all stand before God and the books are opened, ALL of our sins will be revealed and they WILL have a bearing (consequence) on the "rewards" that God gives to the faithful. To those who do not know Christ, the consequences will be "no forgiveness," no "eternal relationship" with God, and a "punishment" for sin that is too terrible to contemplate.

In the "meantime," we would all do well to remind ourselves from time to time of the guilt and struggles that even Paul dealt with "day to day," and the provision that he constantly reminded himself of for his struggles and temptations. WITH God or WITHOUT God, that really IS how we face each day.

If there is, and I think there is, a "tension" as Bob Pure has put it, in recovery from adultery within a marriage, it IS this tension that exists between being "in this world, but not of this world." And we are not "of this world" because of God, not because of our own abilities. We are not "of this world" despite our limited abilities and because God has given us HIS provision, through Christ, His promise....IF we are willing to avail ourselves of it.

"I CAN do all things THROUGH Christ who gives me HIS strength." (Philippians 4:13)

We are NOT left to "do it on our own." Nor are we left without a Shepard who will lead us back whenever we get ourselves a little lost "Munching" after grass that leads us AWAY from God. As long as we are focused on the grass that "tastes good, and we put our heads down and follow the feeling," we can get farther and farther away from the "safety" of the sheep pen. One day we "lift our head up" and look around and realize we've wandered away from the flock and begin to try to figure out how to "get ourselves back." But then along comes Christ and HE leads us back.

NOW that is a "tension" between our natural proclivities and God's promises despite them, that I DO like. God IS faithful to all of His promises, even when we "forget" and are not.

God bless.

Hi FH,

Thanks for your reply. Since you mentioned St Paul, I wonder if you've ever done something like this?

Pilgrimage

All Blessings,
Jerry

Hi Jerry.

At the risk of inflaming emotions of some, I will try to answer your inquiry from my belief and perspective.

No, Jerry, I have not done something like that. Nor would I likely do so after having read their description, especially this one regarding the "intent" of their cruise;

"Ecumenical bonding characterizes TLIG pilgrimages, as does the love of the beautiful Eucharistic Liturgies and prayers for all."

I think one of the greatest threats to Christianity IS this notion of "ecumenicalism," especially as proposed and supported by the RCC. "Prayers for all" is, for example, a good thing, unless they might be including "prayers of the dead" in their "prayers for all." We CAN "love" the things that sound nice and "beautiful," but emotional responses are not necessarily the thing that TRUTH is made of. There are FUNDAMENTAL differences between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism that strike to the heart of the soveriegnty of God and the truth of "by Grace you have been saved, not of works, lest any man should boast."

"Accepting of others" as children of God, created in His image,...YES. "Prayer" for the salvation of all, that they come to know and accept the Lord Jesus Christ,...YES. Surrendering of beliefs in the notion of "there are many paths to God,"...NO.

On the solid rock of Christ, not Peter or those who think they ARE Peter, I stand. That is, for me, a CHOICE between standing FOR God or what "sounds nice."

God bless.

Hi FH,

No problem with your reply. I just tossed it out there like a seed. The ground it lands on is out of my control.


This is NOT a RCC sponsered cruise, I'm not sure whatever gave you that idea.


Have no idea what "prayers of the dead" is. Have never heard that expression in my life??


Well, again, this had nothing to do with RCC and other Christan faiths, as TLIG is not even remotely endorsed by the RCC. For the record, there are far far fewer RC's that believe good works will earn them a spot in Heaven than you seem to realize. That to me, has always been your "blind side" in your prejudicial judgement of the RCC. JMH and singular opinion.

TLIG is NOT RC, Protestant, Othordox, or any other single belief. IT IS ALL OF THE ABOVE! One Christian faith under one Altar, with praise and love of God.

Just a nobel thought at this point, with tremendous hurdles and obstacles in front of it. But IMHO, it will someday happen. Perhaps not in your or my lifetime, but I hope so.

All Blessings,
Jerry

OK Fh,

My last response:

Here it is

Jerry, that article simply confirms what I've been saying about this "notion" of ecumenicalism.

And the analogy of "libraries" that the author of the article uses is a FALSE analogy because it equates the "only true library" with the RCC and all of it's traditions and beliefs, including those which are in direct contradiction of the Bible.

BUT, if anyone wants to "accept" the library analogy, then consider it this way. ALL the libraries have the Bible in them and the Bible is the ONE and only "true book" on which the library is built and exists.

IF all the "other books" in the library are destroyed by fire, but the Bible remains, it is STILL the same as all the other libraries. Take away that ONE book, and it does not matter how many other books are in the library, it ceases to be a library "of the one book."

Now, the notion that the RCC is the "one true church of Christ" that holds "all of the 'right'" Christian doctrines and beliefs is WRONG. That is precisely WHY Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis to the door of the church building (the library).

"Prayers for the Dead," that you hadn't heard about, is one of the doctrines of the RCC that can get someone "into heaven" after they have died. It is just one example of where they have diverged from the Scripture.

You might find a book called Evangelicalism Divided to be an interesting and informative "read" on this subject of "ecumenicalism."

Please don't delete this thread. The members of this forum deserve the same O&H that our spouses do. I think all BS have similar feelings and wonder if they ever go away, how long it takes, etc. Thank you for starting a powerful thread!

Just wanted to say thanks to all those who responded to my "whiny" thread with sympathy and affection.

After my initial post, I sat here with my head in my hand, and said to myself, "good Lord Jerry, take your funk elsewhere and stop exacerbating the hurt that many others are feeling."

Instead, you folks responded with sympathy which should be reserved for those in a lot worse place than I. I do truly thank each and everyone for their very thoughtful replies.

You know, for years I have witnessed numerous Boston Marathons. A grueling 26.2 mile race from Hopkington to Boston, Ma.

Every year for about 25 years there was this local man called Jack Kelley whose W had passed away and he was left with a severely handicapped son. His son was autistic and metally retarded at the same time.

Every year Jack would run the Boston Marathon by pushing his son in a wheelchair in front of him. I witnessed it several times, and the look on his son's face in that wheelchair, was pure glee.

Jack did this for decades until he was 57 years old. Now he and his son ride in a limo infront of the marathon.

He was an quizzicle inspiration to me. There was a man, who knew what undying love and devotion really meant. His dedication to the love of his son, would bring a tear to anyone's eye.

So the next time I start to "whine", would somebody send me some cheese to go with it.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry - I had a question for you, but I'll bring it up another time.

Sounds like you sorted some things out, and I don't want to disrupt that.

rprynne.
Fire away my friend, my skin is pretty thick tonight.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Okay - I didn't catch this till this morning, but here's my question.

When you said you can never get over it, do you mean you can't get over the A, or do you mean, given the A, you can't accept the current quality of your M?

I see those as two different things. Granted, others may not. But many times when I read a thread like this, what I always wonder is in cases where "recovery" has been going on for a while, if the M was exactly as it is now, but their was no history of an A, would the person be as distressed by the situation?

I think all married people at some point in their M trade some elements of what they think is neccessary for a perfect M in exchange for the future faithfulness of their spouse. But most aren't overly stressed by this. At the time, they consider it a compromise or being flexible, etc., and generally, they are "at peace" with this.

To me, once there is the betrayal, there is no getting around the fact that the BS got "ripped off" on this. But also, once they decide to reconcile, there seems to be no getting around the fact that they are going to have to make a similar trade again. Perhaps, not the same things will be exchanged, but people aren't perfect, so inevitably the BS will once again have to trade some things they think are neccessary for a perfect M, in exchange for the future faithfulness of their spouse. Except this time around, people consider it "settling" or "t*** polish", and they seem to be unable to be "at peace" with it.

I can tell that you aren't neccessarily holding out for perfect and I don't know your whole situation, so maybe nothing I wrote applies. But sometimes I wonder if BH's struggle simply because they inevitably will have to make this trade again.

rprynne,

I wanted to reply to post to me, but I must admit, I'm a little fuzzy about what it is you are asking, so let try to be a little clearer.


Actually, I don't see that the two are mutally exclusive. Once infidelity has struck, the M will never be the same. It's tough to wrap your head around a WW when you truly believed, if nothing else, that could never happen. Once you accept that to whatever degree you can, you begin to realize the M will never again be what you thought it to be, and you grieve. For me at least, a very long time!


Sorry, I won't trade anything for future faithfulness. If you cannot be true to your vow of forsaking all others, there simply is no M and it should end in order to save the sanity of the BS.
For me, a true M means you are more than happy to live within the confines of those vows for the love and sake of your M. If you can't, it's all false and untrue. So in my case, my FWW gets one free pass for the sake of love and forgiveness. But rest assured, only one!


Well I would say the real trade is living with what you've got versus chasing something, to an older person, is no longer worth persuing. I had a verry happy M for 32 years. As Neak's mother said to me, "I may have bought a ticket, but I don't have to take the ride on that rollar coaster anymore." Not if I choose not to.

Hope this helps,

All Blessings,
Jerry

Agree, they are not mutually exclusive.


Yep, thanks.