Like I've said before, I don't envy your situation. I wish there were something I could do to help--with or without a shovel--but I'm not sure what it would be.

I can't remember--have you been to the groups for families of addicts? What's the one BR used to talk about? I don't know what to suggest with respect to your DD, but those are the kind of people I would turn to.

On your WH, Plan B is to preserve your willingness to reconcile. If you're not sure you want to reconcile anymore, I think you can put it away. I think I could argue that your reasons for breaking your plan B outweigh your reasons for staying in.

You identified some benefits (reducing atty fees--which worked for me--and working together for the sake of your DD), but if you have some contact with your WH it will probably accelerate your path to wherever it is you're headed.

With some contact, you would get to take a look at him. Maybe you'll say "Yuck. I don't really want this back." Or maybe you'll see a glimpse of your H and some remorse and some Fog-clearing but him being unable to reach out due to pride or shame or whatever and you might have the opportunity to say gently at some point "You know, it doesn't have to be this way." Or maybe you'll see glimpses of the H you wanted but find that he's still Wayward and doesn't want to reconcile (this is the one that would hurt).

I have no idea which of those is most likely, but I do think contact will accelerate the process. If you want to keep going in your Plan B because you still want reconciliation, then do that. Based on what I'm hearing from you, I think you can put down your Plan B and Get On With It, whatever It happens to be. It's been over a year, right?

One guy's opinion.

Another opinion:


How do you know he's wrong?

Almost forgot, but this really doesn't do the job

CL

Luna, this is an excellent idea!

CL -- Big ole to you.

My heart goes out to you as one mother to another. It physically hurts to watch a child set out on a path of destruction... even more so to think of that precious grandbaby. No advice, other than some good old fashioned prayer. You've heard about a mother's prayer... how they go straight to the top? Who knows, but what can it hurt? Sending prayers up on your behalf.

Luna, SD, PM,

Thanks for weighing in. I like the mediation idea. We have already divided furniture, sold the house and split the proceeds, so the only thing left is debt and retirement funds.

I'm willing to send an email, but I doubt he will answer. How can I word it to get him to respond to it. Remember, he has Plan B'd me and has been extremely hostile. Maybe if I just ask him to consider the mediation so that we can save money and finalize everything, he'll consider it and respond. Part of me doesn't even want to contact him. Part of me hopes I never see him again, but I don't know how to legally finalize this without communicating. Yes, I've been in Plan B with no contact (except for the 5 minutes on moving day) for 14 months now. I guess I don't want to be sitting here writing another on of these posts 14 months from now.

I guess as you said SD, with some contact I will know where his head is. Maybe I'm afraid of finding out.

On my DD - yes, I went through counseling. And I was doing very well at not enabling, but the pregnancy has made me second guess my actions. Even though my head tells me she hasn't changed and isn't willing to yet, my heart goes out to her. The baby? I'm sure that child services will take it. Believe me, I've agonized over it, but the bottom line is that I'm working 7 days a week and not making ends meet very well, so I can't take on a newborn. Especially one that will likely have some type of special need. I'm also looking to the future. I can't be 70 years old and alone with a teenaged boy already prone to addiction issues. This child will need a strong family and male figure to keep him on track.

Yes PM, I've prayed for her but I guess the time just isn't here yet.

How do I know the guy isn't right? I guess because I'm not near ready yet. Oh, he sounds like someone I would like, and maybe the answer is someday to meet him with no expectations other than friendship. I don't have any interest in "dating" and may never have any interest in it.

Thanks all. I also just want to get to the point of indifference.

Chai,

You have been absolutely amazingling strong throughout this whole process and ordeal. You keep getting knocked down, pushed down and yet you still manage to sit up, dust yourself off and keep on moving.

I am in awe of you. I hear you saying, I don't know, but girl, what I know is you are awesome.

I really hope we get to talk on the phone soon.

Hi CL,


...or he won't....you don't really have a lot to lose by asking...except that....


yeah..but if you approach it without having any EXPECTATIONS than the usual WS behaviour, you will be less disappointed... and it might help you to 'move forward'...whatever that means :RollieEyes:




Yes and yes...

I really don't know how you do it, CL!

CL

Chai

Hugs because you need them. I have no other words for your turmoil. I wish I did.



But, I have knitting news. Today, I was walking to a specific location to knit on my lunch hour. On my way there, I found some women sitting at a table - knitting. I sat down with them. We ended up being invited to attend the jam session of a bunch of amateur musicians every Friday at 11:45....next week, my section has a Halloween lunch planned. But, there will be other weeks.

Thanks Luna and Cinders. I guess we do what we have to do. I've managed to get a lot of monkeys off my back one by one. Not sure I would have survived otherwise. My Dd has always been the biggest source of my stress, but that is really a gorilla that isn't going anywhere so I have to learn to live with that one.

I'm still not sure what I'll do moving forward. I think I'm going to wait until the hearing for support occurs so I can test the waters a little. That will tell me just how much he is going to fight.

From what I can determine, he is now back in town. I suspect that because of the heart attack, he can't do his field work anymore, so they have given him a desk job at corporate here. That may not be good because he isn't as valuable to them in a position like that, plus his income goes down (no travel). Not sure if OP really did get another BF, if she is here with him, whatever. Part of me wishes them good luck and I hope they're happy. Well, not really. I'm just practicing on letting go.
How did it sound?

There isn't one part of me that wishes WH and OW good luck and happiness. In fact, honestly, quite the opposite.

Now does that mean we don't wish them happiness at some point in their life, who knows, but not with these yutzes.

How did it sound, not like you meant it. Course I can be wrong very often. :RollieEyes:

...like you were....practicing!

CL

It is hard to let go, isn't it? Sometimes, you really have to work at it in order to succeed.

It sounds like you are doing well under the circumstances. I know things are tough on a number of fronts. But, it's tough for everyone - the troubles and times are different. Life is not easy. Giving up is easy. Making a good life is tough. And everyone's version of 'a good life' is different.

Chai, it sounds like you are growing. If you don't practice, you don't ever master it.

Queenie,

You're so funny. I was half kidding when I said that, but eventually I would like to get to that point because it would mean that I let it go.

I can't fool you Luna. I think because we are both in the same place.

Now Cinders, she is way beyond where we are and knows the drill. And yes Cinders, I think we are all growing. At least when I look at where Queenie, Luna and I were a year ago, I think we've all made great strides. I'm glad that you stay around MB to help others through this. You have come out the other side a winner and you show us that it is not only possible, but probable.

I'm just tired....

In AA there is a slogan that says, progress not perfection.

We are not perfect people, we are simply doing the BEST we can with what we have to work with. As we see you grow, learn about yourself, make choices and walk through hard decisions and incidents in your life, we all gain so much respect for you as a woman and your ability to overcome obstacles that keep getting placed in front of you, and yet I can still hear the humor in your voice and the willingness to keep moving forward.

You are INSPIRING

OK - both Queenie and Chai are inspiring. You ladies do give me reason to hang around. You need to know that you can make it - wherever life takes you. 13 years ago, I was devastated and depressed and hopeless and had no resource like this. Nothing. No real friends who had survived. I had nothing. So, as a survivor, I hang around for you ladies - and a few others.

Years ago, in Sunday School, the teacher asked people in the class who they admired and wanted to be like. The answers were widespread and they were real people in the the church family. That was when it really hit me that you never know who is watching you - who wants to be like you - or to whom your example is important.

That is why we must persevere and why we must do the best we can. You never know to whom it matters. You never know who you are helping.

Hi CL,


Where's THAT? (Just kidding..LOL!)

Yeah..but as Cind says:


....and as you say, she and othes are an example that....one can get to the 'other side' of this. Thanks for being there, CIND.

Now the question is: how long? :RollieEyes:

(...I am hearing the 'little voice' inside answering even though it's not exactly what we want to hear..... AS LONG AS IT TAKES! :crosseyedcrazy:)


Sounds to me like a good time for me to come back with an old suggestion of mine...that I TRY to remember to do myself:

One day a WEEK (uhmmmmm...even 1/2 day)...where 'symbolically' you put all your worries, responsibilities, and problems, say, in a SHOE BOX.... and leave them in there....and then go back and open it up again to deal with....I am sure nobody will even notice the difference, and it might just do a world of good!

...and I agree...compared to a year a ago...we're all doing sooooo much better....

yep....two steps forward..one step backward....means we are still ahead!

CL

You have so many reason to be tired. And it's ok to rest and let G-d rejuvenate you. That's one way of taking care of ourselves and loving ourself. Crap, did I say that?

We all have grown, tremendously, but the battle isn't over yet and the hurts, reactions ect are still there. But we are GODDESSES and when it's done, G-d will have worked in our lives and shown us to a better path than what we thought or understood. Will it be what we wanted? NO, but it is what it is and you my girl have just blossomed and grown so much.

I like your math Luna. I have a G-d box and put H in it a LONG TIME AGO, thanks for the reminders Luna.

It's so weird how we all seem to be strong at the same time and then on those hard days we are all going through them at the same time. What's that about?

Hi Queenie, thanks for checking in.

Well all, I had my first WH sighting in one year today. Shook me up a little, but only for a few minutes. My DD asked me to come down and see her, so I agreed. When I called to tell her I was coming, she said she was at IHOP. Told me to be there at 4:00.

So I'm about one block from her house driving up to the light to make the right turn when I see a red vehicle directly across from me in the left turn lane. I think it looks like WH's vehicle, but not sure. As I start to turn, I look at the plates and recognize the numbers. I got a little sick to my stomach for a few minutes. I had my sun glasses on, so I glanced to see two people in the front. The glare made it so that I couldn't see the faces. I turned the corner and when I looked in my mirror, he turned but went really slow. He was jogging left and right, like he was looking for a place to turn around, pull off or something. I turned left on DD's street, stopped in the driveway, but no one was there. Two seconds later my phone rings and she said that I passed her walking on the street, that she would be there in a second. She had grocery bags, and when I asked her where she was she said her friend just dropped her off. I asked why the friend didn't bring her to the house and she ignored me.

WH loves IHOP, so I'm sure she was with him and he dropped her off on the main road so we wouldn't run into each other.

We talked for a while and she asked me what I was trying to do to her Dad. I asked what she meant and she said she didn't know. Made some comment that I sutck him with credit card debt. Duh. Most of which was run up on OW.

He honestly blames all this on me. I don't think he will ever see that the A had anything to do with this. Sometimes I think that they really believe that we should just sit back and let them have both.

On a positive note, DD may be trying. BF is now in jail, and I think she is getting scared that the baby will be taken. Today was the first time in ages that her eyes were clear. She looked normal. All I can do is continue to pray....

Chai,

I'm sorry that you went through that, but I remember my sponsor telling me the firsts are always the worst. You are so loved on here and we know that pain in our stomach when that happens.

I think they HAVE to believe that or else they would be destroyed themselves and they are intuitively fighting for survival. I'm glad you have recouped.

I'm glad your DD eyes were clear today, yes, keep on praying and completely surrender to G-d and trust him and his plan. It's out only way of survival.

Chai

Chai, it doesn't matter if daughter's father took her to the store. It's good for her. Good to go. Good to have both of you. It's ok. And, you survived! I'm glad you didn't have to deal with him.

Queenie, here's a hug for you, too.

Yup, maybe part of why I haven't gone away yet is that, just when I think it's time to ween myself, I find some people I can urge on.

I need you Cinders. I really do.

Its so interesting how both our children were with their fathers. They do need them so much, but it's so hard to love your children, let them go to the very person you want to be with and not have an part in it.

I love you both so much.

How are you Cinders