I know that you are right about this MEDC. My problem is trying to decide "what i want to do about it".

Without the A i am sure that i would have lived with it for the rest of our time together. With the A i am not sure i want to.

What i really want is for him to "protect" me but it is obviously NOT going to happen.

So i am just going to sign off now and not bother with venting about it anymore because it does nothing to help the situation.

ARGH!!!

Hey SC I disagree with you I think venting is very good.

It allows you to use us as a sounding board, you can get various views on the subject and I don't think you should stop posting unless it is hurting more then is helping.

(((SC))) F-26

Thanks F-26. I do not think it is hurting, but i do not know if it is helping (i know that sounds silly ).

I just really hate this stupid infidelity crap, to me anyway, it seems to make you question everything in your life. Which is not always a bad thing just a new thing i guess.

SC,
I so know what your going through, trust me. I am glad you didn't take offense to my post, I didn't mean to imply that any of us are "picky" I just know how I was, the H could do nothing right.
Just like the rest of us there is a lot of hurtful history. The signs are/were there, ya know?
Ok what about this? Take him out of the equation, think what would make YOU happy? Your happiness does not depend on him, right? your responsible for your happiness, what would make you happy right now? Can you make a list, not matter how stupid the things might be or sound to someone else.
I know you think of these questions all the time.

Venting is good but will stop helping. If it bothers you, why let it continue. Put your foot down and tell him it is a LB. Plain and simple.

I have told him over and over and over again and he disagrees with me on the issue. And as we all know you can not MAKE someone do something. We can only change ourselves. So i either have to deal with it or get out. I was hoping that maybe talking about it here i could figure out a way to deal with it.

DF i definitely did not take offense to your post or any others on here. I know what i want i do not know how to acheive it. So that is why i still post here looking for help in trying to figure it all out.

I mean is divorcing going to make it all better, i doubt it because i love my H and i will miss him and there will be things that bother me about any one else who may come into my life as none of us are perfect myself included.

I guess i am just trying to understand HIS point of view to maybe help me change mine.

Don't argue the "issue". Discuss the principle.


Ask H if he wants to make you happy. Ask him if he wants to avoid making you unhappy.
Just ask him that and stick to that topic.

Come back and let us know his response.

Remember: discuss the principle first

Unless he agrees to the principle, I don't see the point of further argueing.

Still Crazy, I may be a bit late to the discussion, but I think, based upon your description of the incident at the snack stand, that you have every right to be annoyed at your husband's flirtatiousness. Because that's what it seems like to me: flirting.

Quite simply, being overly friendly is something a FWS can't do anymore, ever. Your H had no reason to speak to the woman - she hadn't spoken to him, or looked at him. You were tending to her. He was just looking to get cute and draw attention to himself. It was the fact that he wasn't waiting on the woman that jumped out at me.....I would feel different had he been the one to wait on her, rather than you.

I ask those who think that he was just being friendly....what if their situations were reversed? What if this was a FWW being "cute" with a man and the husband objected? I think that most posters would understand in that case, and not be so quick to put it down to simply being friendly. A little dose of reserve never hurt any FWS, IMHO.

FWIW, I am not the jealous type. My husband is a very friendly type as well. I am more reserved, a product of my WASPy upbringing. I am not generally bothered by my H's friendliness, except to issue the occasional eyeroll. But if he were the FWS? I don't think I would feel the same way at all.

SC, if it bothers you, it bothers you. As long as you can discuss it rationally with your husband, and not in an accusatory manner, I think that he owes it to you to cool it. And if he only cools it while he is around you, well, that's better than not at all. You really can't control his behavior in all cases, but you certainly can make him more sensitized toward not hurting you.

Just my .02

There's no arguing this issue. If you consider it a LB, then it is, whether he agrees with it or not. The point of a healthy marriage is POJA - you find his behavior inappropriate and it makes you extremely uncomfortable - especially considering he had an A. Period.

You have to put up boundaries. You have to decide - I will/won't accept this sort of behavior out of my spouse. I was REALLLLLLLLY bad at that until I found out about my FWH's EA. Since then I've gotten EXTREMELY clear about what I will and won't tolerate. It felt a little foreign at first to be so outspoken, but I've really grown to like it - a lot. You don't have to do it in a LB, but you do have to do it.

It's like Dr. Phil says - "you teach people how to treat you." Do you want to teach him it's ok to treat you bad and ignore your feelings?

Ok Pep i guess i can give this a try, but i can not see how it is any different. He KNOWS that it makes me unhappy. He does not agree with my feelings on the matter.

I have told him how much it bothers me, but he still says that i am overreacting and that he is just being "friendly". I do not know how to make him understand how much it bothers me when he thinks it shouldn't bother me at all.

And i guess i also do not have consequences for him crossing the boundary other than leaving.

This is not about your feelings.


Have you ever discussed with H what the underlying principles of your marriage might be?

Ask him .... "In your opinion, what is one of the underlying principles of our marriage?"

Medc - having just read through this thread two things seemed to jump out at me regarding SC's situation.

1. You are talking "logic" and SC is talking "emotions."

2. SC is in recovery, her marriage is not yet at the "recovered" stage, and everything is "magnified."

And one other thought that goes along with both points 1 and 2, it has a lot to do with TRUST not yet being "earned" or restored.

It's "natural" for a BS in recovery to be "triggered," or react more emotionally to things.

Could it be as "Simple" as the natural proclivity of men to be a "knight in shining armor" to some "damsel in distress?"

Poor men. Taught to try to be helpful and "fun." But the comment about the "count the change" was offensive to his wife's honesty, and shouldn't have been uttered for that reason alone.

Getting through recovery can be long and have its "difficult and awkward moments."

I am a very social person. I talk to whoever is in my way, men, women chilren, I talk to them all the same, truthfully, I wouldn't know if I was flirting or not, I wouldn't know if someone was flirting back. If my H asked me to stop talking to men or "flirting" I seriously wouldn't know what I could or couldn't do. I would say the same thing, that I am just friendly.
Has H not earned his trust with you? Is there still alot of questions that are unanswered for you?

FH the line below is how his A started. He was being a "knight in shining armor" to some "damsel in distress". This is the reason it bothers me REALLY bad now as opposed to just bothering me pre-A.


Maybe i am wrong here but it seems most of the men see nothing wrong with his "friendliness" and most of the women do. So i wonder if our differences (men and women) have something to do with the fact that my H too does not see anything wrong with his actions.

DF i am a social person myself and will talk to anyone (male or female) in the grocery store line, at a game, pretty much anywhere i go. Heck my kids always tell me that i talk to everyone. Me and my girlfiends can get down right vulgar sometimes bantering back and forth. However i do not say "cute quips" to men.

It is not unanswered questions or even a matter of trust. It is his "weak boundaries" with members of the opposite sex that bother me. It was partly because of these "weak boundaries" that he had an A.

SC - I don't think it's necessarily just a "guy" thing since a lot of women also have something of a "florence nightengale" thing in them that prompts them to be friendly and helpful, often more "empathic" than men. That was a big part of my wife's affair, because she has a huge "florence nightengale" personality. Obviously, the "problems" start when the talking begins to get too personal and there is a "response" from the other person.

But having said that, everyone's "situation" is different as to how an affair started and it DOES have a lot to do with personal Standards. Similar to Boundaries, there are "lines" within what what someone will allow themselves to do that should never be crossed. The reason, imho, is that once those "lines" start to be crossed it's like thinking you are strong swimmer and you don't have to worry about the potential effects of a rip current. Many swimmers have drowned as a result. The get "swept" further and further from shore and "try as they might," the current "has them" and they tire...and before long they "give out" and "give up" to the "inevitability" of their situation and are swallowed up.



And you correct to be concerned about this "weak" area. There is nothing wrong, in fact there is a lot right, with warning someone you love about the dangers of rip currents and that it might be "best" for all to forgo the "swim" today.

I don't know if you've ever had such a similar conversation with your husband, but rip currents never end. They just "go away" for a while, waiting for another "just right day." So if you keep going to the beach to swim, sooner or later you WILL run into "tempting waters" that conceal a nasty rip current underneath. Sometimes those currents are not that strong and sometimes they are very strong.

PRUDENCE. CAUTION. NOT going to a beach that has a proclivity for rip currents is a good idea. As the Lord has said, sometimes it's just a matter of "take up your cross daily and follow me."

But this much I CAN tell you, as someone who has "been on the Betrayed Spouse side of the recovery equation," once infideltiy has struck, and recovery is chosen and begun, there will FOREVER be some things that both spouses, but especially the WS, can NEVER do again, never see again. Place they can't go, things they can read, movies they can't watch, etc.

That IS one of the lifelong consequences of adultery, IF someone loves their spouse and is serious about wanting to RECOVER from the past infidelity.

Therefore, your husband needs to BOTH understand these "new realities" concerning change. Change is not always "easy," and sometimes they need repeated and repeated CONSCIOUS effort to implement, until they become a "new habit" and as "natural" as the proclivity to "flirt" or whatever with others, simply because "allowing themselves" to do a given activity THAT IS A SOURCE OF HURT AND PAIN for their spouse NEEDS TO GO.

That is one of the things that, hopefully, all former Wayward Spouses will "get to." A "new Standard" for themselves that they will NEVER again allow themselves to be the source of pain and hurt to their spouse.

If you find it hard to have this sort of "relationship/recovery" talk with your husband, feel free to print out this post and use IT as a "talking point" for discussion for the two of you.

God bless.

My H does not believe he has "weak boundaries" when it comes to women. He believes that he is just a "friendly" person and that i overreact.

He also says that "he knows himself and he would never do that to me again so i should have nothing to worry about."

However he also said after D-day that "he could not believe he did that because it was not at all like him."

To me these two statements contradict themselves.

I can't tell if you understand how important this point is.

It isn't about the specific issue. It could be about any issue.

It is about the principles. The principles give one the motivation to pursue and achieve the POJA with enthusiastic agreement.

Him being OK with the fact that it makes you unhappy is where I would focus.