or just ask them.

My dad one time gave me stern lecture when I was being too rigid on my oldest son - not physical mind you.

He said that no child asked to be born and every child does not get to pick their parent.

May seem corny - but one can ponder a bit deeper and understand.

quote=Want2Stay]Limiting abortions to a few as humanly possible would be the best answer. Want2Stay[/quote]
I think "limiting" may be the wrong choice of word, though I understand your intent. It's not about passing a law that says either (a) any and all abortions allowed, vs. (b) absolutely no abortions allowed vs. (c) a limited number allowed. That actually would satsify nobody - there's still abortions and WHO is it that gets to decide which ones?

What I think you meant to say was to address issues that lead to women being in a position to consider abortion. Things like reducing poverty, better education (particularly in regards to sex ed), better health care for women, counselling etc. Basically, make it so carrying out the pregnacy is the best option for as many women possible - so fewer choose abortion.

IfIt's not really a privacy issue, but a woman's rights issue. Buy legislating it, you are effective taking away the right of each woman to her own body and handing it over to the government - with the exception of wealthy women who will just go someplace else.

I used to think the Christian approach would be to convince women why abortion is the wrong choice - after all they will have to face that consequence on judgement day. Outright banning it complete with punitive action seems a more middle-eastern/Muslim extremist approach.

Because I feel sympathy for women who felt abortion was their best option. Because I feel sympathy for those that made the choice to have an abortion and later in life regret that choice.

Want2Stay

ok, so you feel it should be limited only because some women WAKE UP and feel regret? Any other reasons?

We do have better sex education and women have more opportunities than at any other time in the history of the world. It does not prevent abortions. Especially when we have older broads telling young girls there is nothing wrong with killing their unborn.

So you see, the reasons have nothing to do with poverty or a lack of sex education, but with being taught that abortion is a form of birth control.

If
no, the issue is not about the "woman's body" but about the BABY'S body. No one is proposing taking a woman's "right to her own body" away. They are proposing taking away her right to KILL another body.


I think that Christianity teaches that murder is evil and very "punitive." It is beyond extreme to kill the unborn; that is more in keeping with Muslim extremists who slaughter innocent citizens. Abortionists and their supporters would more rationally be likened to Muslim extremists who behead their victims. The abortionists actually do much worse to their victims.

Actually, there is no such right to the privacy to kill another in the Constitution. It is not based in the Constitution and directly contradicts the Ninth Amendment. The Court's decision is riddled with contradictions.

The court bastardized the Fourteenth Amendment which deals with procedural limitations regarding life, liberty, and property. While we are guaranteed such rights without government interference, the government can indeed infringe upon our life, liberty or property as long as it gives notice and an opportunity to be heard.

Nowhere, in fact, does the Constitution mention privacy, which is invaded by any government action and certainly any criminal statute. In other words, you do not have the right to the privacy to murder someone in the privacy of your home.

The Ninth Amendment, directly contradicts this decision. The Ninth Amendment states that "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." The word retain, designates that the rights expressly guaranteed by the constitutional text should not be interpreted so as to deny rights not specified, but that preexisted in the Constitution. One would assume that the Court would have questioned whether the "right" to terminate a pregnancy would "deny or disparage" a right "retained" by the people. Had the Court questioned this, its distinction between "potential" and "full" human life would have been seen as an obvious violation of the right to life.

Ever heard of the Declaration of Independence? You know, the RIGHT TO LIFE? It's one of those unalienable rights that's mentioned in the nation's charter, the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration of Independence states that "all men are created equal" and are endowed by their Creator with the certain unalienable rights, one being the right to life. The Declaration is clear that this right belongs equally to all human beings. Thus, under this definition of the right to life, there can be no distinction based upon whether human life is "potential" or full. Yet, that is the core distinction of Roe v Wade, and it directly contradicts the right to life retained by the people according to the Ninth Amendment...

Even so, you can't hide evil behind the Constitution no matter how badly one contorts its meaning. Remember DRED SCOTT??? Unless you believe SLAVERY is moral you can't use the Constitution to justify EVIL no matter what it says. Abortion is is either right or wrong base on REALITY, not the LAW. [or bastardization of same]

As with slavery, abortion is right or wrong based on its own merits, not whether a law allows it or not. We are not arguing the LEGALITY, but the MORALITY.

Ok I want to thank those that replied to my post. However I have to say that some of you missed the whole point of it. No matter how much we may all detest abortion. No matter how many of the former presidents detest/ed it. They are not going to change the law. It is sad to see people fighting for the right to give a child life and then kill people they see coming out of abortion clinics.

As far as me having proof to the things I have written about in my post. Does it really matter whether it is confirmed or unconfirmed? That there was a HIV scare at a school where 50 or more kids were involved is what matters. If they have HIV or Not is the issue. The thing that matters is that the kids would even have to worry that they could have HIV whether it drug or sex related. Should they be engaging in those activities anyway is. That is the issue. That fact that they are.

The point of my post was that instead going back and forth on they whys and the why nots of abortion, you should go out and do what you can to keep the media from desensitizing us to sex and violence and that would do a lot more toward correcting the problem than fussing about who is right or wrong regarding the views of abortion any day. How many kids are you letting get hurt while you are debating about why it is right or wrong. Be active in trying to solve the issue or stop fussing about it. You criticize and do nothing to help fix the problem how are you any better than the person that is doing the wrong in the first place? medc I will reply to you when I get back. I have to get my son from school.

For those of you who don't believe infantacide happens...

Planned Parenthood Admits Infanticide, Obama Defends

Chilling beyond words.

That's where you are wrong, Dig, Obama PROMISED that the first thing he will do is pass the Freedom of Choice Act, which would remove ALL state limitations on abortion.

This is a crock as well. I'm sure that Hollywood changing their ways is going to stop some woman from spreading her legs for an abortion doctor. Yeah, okay.

People are going to have sex...and people are going to get pregnant. The ONLY way to severely reduce the number of abortions is to ban the procedure...and to lock up anyone that violates that law.

the dirty little secrets of these scum bags. Thanks for posting this Marsh.

Well, they are not going to change the law if we do nothing about it. And that certainly doesn't mean decent people should not speak up about it and do their best to influence legislation outlawing this horrific evil.

And being against abortion has nothing to do with " killing people coming out abortion clinics." that is nonsense. There are LAWS against murdering abortionists after all.


DIG, but that is your agenda, not that of others. To me, that seems a silly pipe dream to believe that controlling TV content alone will reduce abortions. But if you choose to waste your time with such an agenda, there is nothing stopping you. My agenda is quite different, though.

DIG, I hope you think this statement through more carefully because the IRONY in it is astounding. Just ask yourself how many "KIDS" get hurt being aborted? Can you not see how stupid and ironic such a statement is? Unless you are against abortion you have no credibility to lecture others about "kids getting hurt."

And secondly, if posting on an internet board EQUATES to letting kids get hurt, then how do you justify your own posts here? Seems like you may have hoisted yourself on your own petard with this post, DIG. Talk about a self indictment.

It seems like your goal is shut people up with posts like this. I hope this is not the case, but I do know that when I was pro-abortion it bothered me very much to read posts that stated the truth about abortion. It was an assault on my CONSCIENCE. I wonder if you are feeling the same thing?

Perhaps this is the first falicy that should be straightened out in the education system. There is contraceptive (prevention of pregnancy). Then there is termination of pregnancy (abortion). They are not the same. If people think they are, then your education system needs work.

Until the "baby's body" can be sustained without the woman's body, it is affecting the woman's body. The choice to abort isn't about choosing whether or not to have a baby. One can give birth and put the baby up for adoption. The choice to abort is about choosing not to be pregnant. There are a number of reasons why a woman would choose not to be pregnant. Some of them have even been deemed acceptable by this crowd (woman's life in danger, rape, incest). Some of them are highly questionable and some are unacceptable by many pro-choicers (as you put it, birth control).

There are ways to minimize the number of women who choose abortion. For one thing, providing better education about contraception (which can also help prevent the spread of STD's) so fewer unwanted pregancies occur in the first place. Also, provide better resources and care for pregnant women who cannot afford medical treatment, or to take time off work because htey have other children that need to eat etc., so that the choice of remaining pregnant doesn't seem so bad after all (compared to the choice to abort).

My understanding was that God gave humans free will, as well as the path to salvation (Jesus). It is up to humans to choose that path. Also, it is up to God to judge us.

Also, I find it odd how extremists attack abortion, but don't say anything about war. War is also murdering of human lives - including innocent lives. Your current war doesn't even have a purpose except to ensure the wealth of the Bush family estate and their cronies. The rest of the UN is still fighting your war on terrorism in Afghanistan (and taking and losing lives as a result). And since all of this discussion revolves around politics (election time), why isn't more being said about war, which is a distinctly political issue, than abortion, which isn't (well, it shouldn't be).

Tell that to the Iraqi's that have been given freedoms never before enjoyed.

Tell you what, ****EDIT****.

No, again, we are talking about killing the BABY, not the mother. No one has proposed killing the mother. It was the mother who got herself pregnant, after all. Nor is there any standard that entitles one to kill the unborn because it cannot be sustained outside of the mothers body.


But, the mother CHOSE that when she got pregnant. That was her choice, not the government's. The governments only concern, again, is the protection of the BABY's body. This is not about the mothers body.


There is already plenty of education. That is not the problem. A better, more effective way to "minimize" it is to outlaw it. It is murder and should be outlawed the same as any other crime.


Well no, God very much advocated that governments be set up to make laws to protect people. There are laws in almost every place in the world against murder. And God mandated that we judge right from wrong here on earth. It is our Christian responsibility.


I think the extremist label more rightly belongs to those who kill millions of innocent humans every year, don't you?. Abortion is very extreme. Do you not think it sort of hypocritical to object to WAR after you have just defended abortion, the needless slaughter of millions of innocent humans? I would suggest you sort of lost your credibility to express concern about lives lost in war after you have just advocated keeping abortion legal. It could be argued - successfully - that many wars are JUST, but it can never be successfully argued that abortion is JUST. It just ain't...

Focusing on a problem instead of focusing on finding a solution to the problem does nothing to help. Faith with out works is dead. You can talk until you are blue in the face about why it should be stopped. How has that worked out for any of you as far as putting a stop to it? If parents we more involved in their childrens' lives (the kind of people they are around, the things they watch on tv) Talking to them about sex and drugs, all these problems with drugs, alcohol and sex would be vastly reduced. So I ask again what are you all doing that are so against this doing to help better the problem besides talking about it?

Medc as far as you are concerned the whole let's kill the teen in foster care is not the point I was making regarding putting kids up for adoption. When I said that I meant how are the kids any better off if they are brought into this world with out anyone to care for them. I don't know about anyone else but I do know when I was growing it was many of days I wanted to die because when I was not being beat on, I was being neglected. It is not a good feeling. To feel like your life doesn't count, that no one would care if you live or die. What I also meant is do any of you have any foster kids? Do you any of you that want to see this stopped going out and trying to help get these kids adopted? Complaining about how something is wrong and not doing anything to fix it doesn't help, so if you are not going to actively be involved in fixing it why keep bringing it up? Doing that without helping defeats the purpose.

YES...and everyone of them has deserved to live.

What are YOU doing besides assuring that abortion will remain legal???

When you ask what am I doing well writing I am writing to you.