OMG, the sky is falling... The Democratic troika... Heaven help us... Sheesh. We had 6 years of a Bush/Lott/DeLay Republican troika, giving us the most fiscally irresponsible period in American history, and most of us are still living... Relax, we'll survive, and maybe even prosper (something we did not do under the Republican trifecta)..

AGG

No, it doesn't take rocket science at all; she obviously looks down on athiests. If she didn't, there would be nothing to feel insulted about. To her that is an insulting comparison apparently. However, the ad didn't imply that SHE was Godless, it SAID that she took money from them and then went on to feature her affiliation.

Even so, her reaction reveals her sentiments about athiests and her fear about the association. She is trying her best to deny any association.

So you think that calling Obama a "muslim" is something that would discredit him?

Yup. You might just win the Lotto Millions too. Just keep buying all those tickets.

OR you might just "get rich" the "old fashioned way," by WORKING and EARNING it yourself instead of having someone take what belongs to someone else and give to you (if they like you and you can help keep them in power).

Now, let's see, just how effective have Reid and Pelosi been at reducing spending and stopping the "pork?" Hmmmm...there last attempt at hiding what they really want to do involved some 30 million dollars or so that they wanted to "sneak" into the "Rescue Package," EARMARKED for Obama's buddies at ACORN.

Ya. You must be right. PIGS WILL FLY (pork on the wing) with no checks and balances on the "triumverate."

Very astute, Mel.

Sort of makes you think about Obama and all of his denials about all of his "associations," doesn't it?

Now I wonder just what is on that tape that the LA Times has that they won't release?

20 years and never knew until NOW....riiigght.

Just acquaintences.....AY....yup.

Not a socialist bent on "changing" America.....nope, just redistribute the wealth, take from whomever they want to and give to those most likely to keep them in power.

KNOWN by the friends one keeps??? Not Obama. Not Hagan. Not Murtha. Just all one big happy family of the world bent on redistributing the wealth to all the other members of the world. At least until they kill the goose.

Sorry FH, the end isn't near. It's a good thing they will have control because that's exactly what it is going to take to clean up the colossal mess left behind by Mr 22% and his horrid administration.

Want2Stay

Care to explain why the McCain led International Republican Institute(IRI) distributed several grants to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi, including one worth half a million dollars.

A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi's Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank.

I mean if Khalidi is such a bad man then why whould McCain give him half a million bucks? Kind of makes a toast given at a public farewell party seem kind of innocuous doesn't it?

Really FH, we can play the guilt by associaton game all day long and in the end it won't matter one bit. McCain has just a many questionable relationships as Obama. McCain is losing this election because of the campaign he has run. He choose to use smear politics when his closet was full of it's own skeletons and nobody is buying it accept the conspiracy theorists.

Jim Hensley, Convicted Felon
G. Gordon Liddy, Convicted Felon/Advocate of Domestic Terrorism
Charles Keating, Convicted Felon
Raffaello Follieri, Convicted Felon
Ted Stevens, Convicted Felon
Rick Renzi, Under Indictment
Rick Davis, Freddie Mac Lobbyist
Charles Black, Lobbyist for Dictators
Richard Quinn, White Supremist
Todd Palin, Member of Secessionist Group

Want2Stay

FH / Wants

We just may have full Dem control of two branches of gvt. The last time was during the Carter admin. We all know what happened during those times: the unemployment rate was 10% (its now ~6%), inflation was at double digits and interest rates were above 20%.

Obama admin will not be a Clinton admin which had to work with a GOP congress. His admin could well be like that of Carter. Every social dream ever concocted will be passed. After Carter - the Dem party was burned to ashes and never fully recovered until 1992 with Clinton.

I have had a chance to listen to Obama during the primaries and to listen to recent campaign speeches. Albeit he was pandering to the left base of the Dem party during the primaries but nevertheless - it is like two different candidates.

Here's what may happen - the Blue Dog Southern Dems will become the thorn in Pelosi/Reid/Obama side if indeed Obama wins. The Blue Dogs will ultimately will have to listen to their conservative constituents. Carter ran into the same problem and at the same time ran afoul of the Kennedy Dems. Dems have never been an united party while in power - too many factions are within the party.

So I am going to vote for McCain and watch this very interesting election where we will either wind up with our first black president or first woman VP.

Somebody start making the popcorn, this looks like something right out of the movies.

Might I respectfully point out that the topic of this thread is the North Carolina Senate election, not the Presidential election? I realize that the subject of the North Carolina Senate may not be compelling enough to keep people posting, but I won't be offended if the thread dies a peaceful death from lack of interest in the actual topic. I would prefer it not be locked because people start arguing over a completely different topic.

My apologies NMD. Just defending against the usual rhetoric. I will abide your wishes for the thread to remain on topic.

ETA:
As for the ad, it really is despicable. The perfect example of desperate campaigns willing to say anything to turn around elections. Truly sad.

Want2Stay

As I see it, the fact is that Hagen attended a fundraiser at the home of an individual who is a member of the Godless PAC. Plenty of candidates attend functions and fundraisers organized by people of faiths (or lack of faith) other than their own. It doesn't mean that they have given up their own faith. It doesn't mean that they are ready to take on the faith of their fundraisers. It does mean that they may have similar view on issues that have nothing at all to do with religion.

Elizabeth Dole's ad is an obvious attempt, in a close election to pander to the fears of evangelicals. The commercial certainly insinuates that Hagen has some sort of atheist agenda based upon her attendance at a fundraiser. Of course Hagen is going to respond; the ad implies that she is godless, and she's a Sunday school teacher at her church. It's a baseless charge.

Now, just because I happen to believe that there is nothing wrong with being an atheist does not mean that this was not smear tactics. It's pretty silly to defend Dole's actions by saying "Well, if there's nothing wrong with being an atheist, why is Hagen so upset?" Please.

The point is there is what should be and there is what is.

It's exactly like the insinuation that Obama is Muslim. Is there anything wrong with being Muslim? Of course not - in my opinion - but that's just my opinion. One of the mothers of a player on my son's hockey team believes that Obama is a Muslim and won't vote for him on that basis alone. Just as an evangelical voter in the Dole/Hagen race might be inclined to vote for Dole in the mistaken belief that Hagen is "godless".

As Colin Powell said in his speech, here in America there shouldn't be anything wrong with being a Muslim (just like there shouldn't be anything wrong with being an atheist), but it's low tactics when a person's religious beliefs are brought front and center into a campaign, particularly when their beliefs are erroneously stated in a blatant attempt to garner a win.

That's what Dole's doing. Would she be doing this if it wasn't a close race? No way. She wouldn't need to resort to stooping so low. She could afford to take the high ground. I don't see any way at all to defend her actions here.

To me, it's quite disappointing to see someone of Dole's stature do this. Karl Rove rides again.

And that was my point in bringing up Article 6 of the Constitution in the OP.

(bolding mine)

Whichever of these candidates wins, she will be bound by "oath or affirmation" to support our constitution, including the portion that says "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States". If a candidate implies in any way that a religion is required in order for someone to be suitable for office, it does not suggest to me that that person is going to "support this Constitution".

NMDreams, that doesn't make any sense. All voters and candidates decide what constitutes suitability and that has nothing to do with the Constitution. That is their civic responsibility. The Constitution strictly prohibits GOVERNMENT from qualifying candidates based on a religious test. Not so with private citizens.

I have no evidence that Elizabeth Dole disagrees with that article and neither do you. No where has she suggested that the Constitution be changed to eliminate this ban on a religious test.

A candidate - and voters - are very much within their right to determine a candidates suitability based on any criteria they see fit.

I don't think we would be having this conversation if the ad said that Hagan was a Girl Scout leader or the chorale leader in her church, which is proof to me that this "smear" is in the eye of the beholder; beholders who DO look down on athiests. If someone accuses me of being "JEWISH," even though they might mean it as an insult, I would not insulted by that.

Even so, Hagan was not accused of being an athiest, she was accused of being affiliated with them. And we are known by the company we keep.

And certainly Dole did run the ad to undermine her, that is the job of a political campaign. That is how we get the truth - hopefully - about the candidates. We count on the opposition to dig up dirt and inform us about their opponent. There is nothing dirty about that unless it is untrue. That is a good feature of our democracy that allows to examine the bad side of every candidate since candidates are not likely to expose their own faults.

As a voter, a candidate that associated with athiests might be an issue FOR ME so this is information that might be relevant to other voters as well. As far as it being true or not, we only have the "WORD" of Hagan's own attorney that its not, which means nothing to me. He stretched the truth in his accusation that Dole "implied" Hagan was an athiest so I have very little confidence in his word.

Yeah, "obviously" . You don't need to "look down" on anyone to be unhappy with lies being told about you. You do not need to look down on the unemployed to be unhappy with someone telling everyone that you are unemployed. The problem is not atheism, Mel, it's the lie that is being spread.


No, it won't discredit him. But as with any lie, it will discredit those who pass the lie around as truth.

AGG

You must be talking about Ms. Palin and her days as governor of Alaska. Taking Fed dollars and spending them locally. Wealth redistribution to the nth degree.

AGG

Yeah, right, very astute... About as astute as saying that the Pope should not be upset at being accused of being a Muslim, a Jew, or an atheist. Very astute .

AGG

I am in agreement that lies are WRONG, but we only have the "word" of a lawyer representing a democrat. Hardly a trustworthy source.

Why would he be upset? I have been called a CANADIAN before. It didn't upset me. I simply set the record straight. I told them i was from the country of TEXAS.

Nope. "Godless Americans and Kay Hagan. She hid from cameras. Took godless money," the narrator says. "What did Kay Hagan promise in return?". The ad then plays a clip of a female voice saying, "There is no God." The clear suggestion is that it is Hagan's view. Now you can play dumb all you want, and say "oh, but it didn't say Hagan thinks there is no God", but a picture is worth a thousand words, and that is what Dole is counting on.

This whole "company we keep" line is comical. What does it mean? If you shake the hand of a black man, you are black? If you go to an event at a mosque, you are a Muslim?

I hope that this ad will help send Dole packing.

AGG

Who/what are you talking about? Are you saying that Hagan is indeed an atheist? Obama is indeed a Muslim? Pope is indeed Jewish? You lost me here...

AGG