Last week I was *definitely* getting the impression that he just plain didn't like being around me. I don't know if it's related to anything else like whether he's had a drink, or if he's under stress at work, or what.

I recently noticed that he's been making himself a martini when he gets home from work (how 60's is that!). That's in addition to wine with dinner. It's weird cus martinis are what *I* drink. About once every 6 months, with about a dozen olives. He usually wouldn't have one when I would though.

Ears, thanks for the recap! I don't think you left anything out. You mention things I'd forgotten, or wasn't considering bringing up cus it doesn't seem to be a *current* problem. But that could change at any time, those issues were never resolved just ignored.

Thanks, jayne. I really believe that this program can you and your H have a marriage that makes you both feel great every time you see each other To give your kids a family that they look forward to coming home every day to, and one that they hope to emulate one day

Jayne, since I'm looking up song lyrics, this is one I've been meaning to post to you. I'm happy that you're finding ways to support you in your decision to stick in there!

ears thanks for posting those lyrics!!!


And thanks for sticking with me. Even when I'm "all over the map."

I'm grateful to get to share the ride with you

For your amusement, here is the tale of how I'm the worst mom ever today.

Short version: I killed Bambi on Halloween and tortured my kids.

Long version: First, I was driving my kids to school this morning when I hit a deer. It happened about maybe 20 feet? 30 ft? from our driveway, so I wasn't going very fast. There was no deer in front of me, and then there was a deer RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. I slammed on the brakes but I did hit her. She managed to get up and get to the side of the road. I took the kids on to school and then came back. She was laying on the side of the road not moving. I went home and called the wildlife ppl, apologizing profusely. They said those things happen all the time this time of year. I was really shaken up though. I puttered around home trying to calm down for an hour.

Then I remembered I'd scheduled flu shots for me and the kids this morning. That's right, I scheduled FLU SHOTS on HALLOWEEN. <BAD MOMMY!> By then it was time for the flu shots, so I called and explained I was running late due to hitting a deer. They said if I could get there by noon they could still take us.

While I was on the phone the doorbell rang. It was the guys coming to install a heater system to replace the one the previous seller had taken with him. So I had to wait around while they did their thing. I finally got to the kids' school at 11:30. To take them to get their FLU SHOT. Of course, everyone was having a wonderfully special Halloween lunch.

Halloween party, flu shot. Halloween party, flu shot.

Two not very happy black-robed miniature "Scream" monsters were dragged kicking and screaming across campus and through the health building. One was mostly worried about missing recess, so he took his shot like a trooper to hurry up. The second one however... oh the second one....

We tried talking. We tried bribing. We tried threats. We tried candy. We tried toys. We eventually tried three people holding him down.

All of which took so long that, you guessed it, we missed recess.

I wanna go back to bed.

Jayne, could you do that, take a nap? Sounds like the day is shot, anyway

lol, Jayne!

At least the day will be memorable.

No nap, I'm at work now trying to figure out what exactly I was sposed to do today. Besides, I've got WAAAAAAAYYYYY too much adrenaline coursing through my veins for a nap.

In an hour or two it's gonna be time to get the kids so we can make the Trick-or-Treating rounds. That would just top it all off wouldn't it: "Mommy slept through Halloween so we didn't get to go Trick-or-Treating!"

I wanna dog. I wanna dog. I wanna dog.

Dogs don't want anything from you except to be with you, and maybe if you could just please throw that ball, yes that one, thatballthatballthatball pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease....

Yep this will forever be "The Flu Shot Halloween When Mommy Killed Bambi".

I just now got it...

Two "Scream" monsters... kicking and *screaming*... ok it's appropriate.


:pumkin: :pumkin: :pumkin:
....
So there's this guy I found online, we've exchanged a couple emails, he says he can get a b!tch pregnant. Should I do it? You know I WANT to....

I talked to my H about it last night. He doesn't want me to. Is this something I have to POJA?





(Hey a key word was censored! I'll have to find a way around that...)

Jayne, dog or no dog, your family will be joyful, happy. How about waiting until your appointment with the Harleys, maybe this is perfect timing, in that this would be a good POJA exercise?

You already thought through what would make you enthusiastic about no dog; have you shared these with your H? Was he enthusiastic about any alternatives you were happy with?
What would make your H enthusiastic about a dog?

And I'm still wondering what your home life is like. Am I undersatnding correctly, does your H really not talk all week outside the 5-10 minutes? To you or the kids? Do just you and the kids do all the talking at the dinner table?

Jayne, I am reading through my thread, because I feel like I was in a swirl for a lot of it, and I've been more centered more myself, so I am reading through to see if there are any lessons I can get now that I didn't get back then.

You have given me so much great perspective the last two years, Jayne, thanks for being here!

I liked this one:


Would this work for you again?

Aw, you saw through me too quickly! Yes I've located a breeder who offers pregnant b!tches for co-ownership, then he handles the advertising and sales of the pups. I was thinking that could offset the cost of having a dog, plus I'd really like to raise puppies, maybe even keep one for myself and get into training. There's a local 4H club, and they sometimes have junior dog handling.

I've been thinking about your question about how much H actually speaks. It doesn't seem as bad to me as how you make it sound, it isn't as if he sits there sullenly not speaking. But he doesn't talk much conversationally. I guess I don't notice it that much, especially with the kids around to do a lot of talking. I've seen couples where one will do all the talking and the other doesn't hardly speak at all. I always thought that was a bit odd, and felt like the talkative person shouldn't dominate the other one so much. Well I am certainly not dominating the conversation and keeping him from talking, but it does end up being me doing most of the talking.

If he has something to say, he'll speak. It's almost always (or plain always?) related to a task or "business item"; for example, he might say "I need you to sign this, it's for our insurance" or "I bought ski season passes, here sign this waiver" or "The kids have cub scouts tonight" or "I thought I'd do ribs tonight for supper".

He also does a lot of communication through email (also all "business related").

It's the conversations that I crave. He doesn't have much "conversation". Around the dinner table will be the kids talking pretty much non-stop, telling me stuff, talking to each other and playing, etc. Last night even, I thought I'd ask him how things were going at work, and I had to tell the kids to talk to each other instead of me, so that the grown-ups could talk.

To all my questions he gives fairly short responses, not angry-short, just short, not leading to further conversation. I guess I've gotten mostly used to it.

Jayne, I don't mean that as a "bad" thing at all, just trying to get a picture. I have a brother that when everyone is together, he listens, keeps up with the conversation, but only interjects every now and then, like if we get something incorrect. But one on one, he talks a lot. I say, "Sorry, Karl, I think we have been running over you, you haven't got a chance to talk all night! What's been up with you?" Usually he will pipe up with something he was WAITING to say, or sometimes he says "Nothin'," and that's okay, too.

Have you reread the Friends of Good COnversation lately? What are your H's favorite topics to talk about? What about bringing those up?

I understand you may have already tried that, have you tried it lately? A cool lady reminded me yesterday that we're new every day

I understand, I'm not offended. It sounds like it may be sorta like how you describe your brother, only a little more so. He'l talk if he feels like it, he just doesn't often have much to say.


I read it when I was having that bad weekend, and I've been trying to do things that will promote a feeling that it is safe for him to speak up. A cool lady reminded me of that, and I've been trying it. right back atcha!

And things do seem to be a lot better, a lot more relaxed. I just don't know if it's just my imagination, that I was so relieved by that 5-10 minutes of conversation, or if that was the start which helped me feel better which helped things actually get better, or if he feels better and is more talkative and nicer because I've been trying to make conversations "safer" and more pleasant, or what. Things do seem better though.

Hello Jayne,

I just caught up on your thread. Did you get the back steaks off the deer??



A wee while ago you mentioned that your H's top 3 EN's were RC, DS and Ad. I was thinking a bit to day about Ad, and I was wondering how that is going? What sort of things are you doing and how often?

Well the FSHWMKB (Flu Shot Halloween When Mommy Killed Bambi) is finally over.


No, but I did think about what a shame it was to let all that meat go to waste! I even mentioned it to a couple other moms at work. They pointed out that if there was damage to the intestines the meat would be infected anyway. They conveniently have a genetics lab with all the equipment for testing such stuff, but by then the wildlife folks had come taken her away. Either that or she revived.

There's so many hungry ppl in the world, and there are nearly tame deer and wild turkeys all over the place here. It seems such a shame. I'm an animal lover, but still seems such a waste. Or they at least need to increase the mtn lion and/or wolf population. Which reminds me, in the neighborhood newsletter we were given when we moved in, there was an article about a mtn lion that had been spotted in so-and-so's back yard. Let's call him "Bob". The man, not the mtn lion. So there was this mtn lion spotted in Bob's back yard, so he calls the wildlife ppl who come out and capture him. The mtn lion, not Bob. They tag him and everything, and then release him. The article then says, and I quote (from memory, but it's fairly close if not exact):

"The lion was last seen heading off behind Bob's back yard."

They caught a mtn lion in Bob's back yard, tagged him, and released him IN BOB'S BACK YARD!!!!!


I've been doing a bit better with the DS (except for today - today was a complete wash, I didn't do anything useful anywhere except take my kids trick-or-treating). The Ad I've been doing pretty good at, I'm not sure I've done any Ad. in the past day or two but maybe I have. I have just kept it in the back of my mind, I haven't specifically tried to make sure to say something every day. Maybe I'll try that. Thanks for the reminder!

So was no one worried that I had gotten involved in an internet EA and was about to take it to a PA? Here I thought I was being clever like that law student who kept talking about his dog in a suggestive manner.

How hard is it to whelp a litter of puppies anyway? How often does something go wrong, say with German shepherds?

Wow, if Flick and I were there it would be BBQ venison almost EVERY DAY!!! I love well prepared venison. I have great recipe for 'poached' venison.

I was thinking about the Ad because Flick told me I was dfoing an awesome job of it and for some reason I remembered you saying something along the lines of "If the BW's can do it, so can I" and I was going to give you some pointers. LOL.

Shepards whelping...
well we had a couple when I was growing up. The gun shy one was a b1tch and we breed her with a red shepard. The vet told us the signs of labour and so we watched her. Anyway I used to sleep in a sleep out and she got it in her mind to dig a den under it. Well my mum was going to have none of that, she wanted to watch the puppies get born just like she had watched them get concieved! So dad had to block off the access. Misty went into labour as per normal and then stayed in labour for 3 days! We rang the vet and they ended up saying UNBLOCK THE DEN! So we did, she whelped and i had to go under the sleep out to get the puppies out. She did growl a little but let me take them out.

And thats all I know about puppies and whelping.